What you want improved on your next SL e-bike

[erider1]

Hi you all !
I am wondering how other fellow XC riders and SL bikes riders see as their priorities for next SL bike purchase.
I currently ride Scott Lumen 910 with HRP-50 with many upgrades at 34 lb and love it.
Few things could be still improved, such as, I would like to have 28mph speed limit settable and get rid of the integrated headset. Other than that the bike is perfect. HRP-50 is very good for my need, I think the HRP-60 is probably the best SL motor.
On singletrack I ride with 95 Watts assistance (Eco)~10 Nm or sometimes even switched off completely. On the commute to the trail and on the road I may be in Eco, Trail or Turbo. This normally gives me anywhere between 95 W to about 380 W....
In any of those support levels is it very easy on such a light and quick SL e-bike exceed 20 mph and then engine braking is felt heavily. This is the prime reason for ask for the 28mph limit option. It is not singletrack or riding in the terrain, where speeds are normally kept well below 20mph....
With that said, posting poll of what people would like to see improved on SL bike before they jump to next purchase.
For me, until there is SL bike with 28 mph limit, I am not buying anything new (you hear me Specialized, TQ and others

Couple notes:
If you want me to add certain choices to the poll, please let me know...
I am not putting any component specific choices as those can be upgraded at will...
Choose up to 3

 

[Scott_123]

I have a Canyon Spectral OnFly with the TQ50. I also have an Amflow PL Carbon Pro. I love both bikes and trade off about every two weeks. SL bike need to be what they are supposed to be, light weight. My PL is 2 lb lighter than my Canyon which as a 350Wh battery. I’m not going to go into other comparisons because they are two different bikes. My observations is the SL bikes are simply too heavy (overall) which should be their big claim to fame in the EMTB world. Yes, some SL bikes are light and some full power are heavy, but overall SL bikes really need to focus on weight. Another thing is none of the SL bikes have the features (like auto-shift) or the tune ability many of the full power bike have.

 

[Dax]

Quieter motor.

 

[erider1]

I have a Canyon Spectral OnFly with the TQ50. I also have an Amflow PL Carbon Pro. I love both bikes and trade off about every two weeks. SL bike need to be what they are supposed to be, light weight. My PL is 2 lb lighter than my Canyon which as a 350Wh battery. I’m not going to go into other comparisons because they are two different bikes. My observations is the SL bikes are simply too heavy (overall) which should be their big claim to fame in the EMTB world. Yes, some SL bikes are light and some full power are heavy, but overall SL bikes really need to focus on weight. Another thing is none of the SL bikes have the features (like auto-shift) or the tune ability many of the full power bike have

Great comment... I am with you.. I too ride a full fat and agree SL and full fat are completely different. And I like full fat as well just not as much as SL.. If had to choose one, it likely would be the SL, for the nimbleness on singletrack where I live and ride most. If I was riding more California style, long open mountains, I might prefer full fat. But one thing on both is very important to me..... the feeling of pedaling and workout must be there... I do not want to be a passenger.
As for lightweight, yes they all should be lighter. I would say the mark for SL should be sub 35 lb. The creme of the crop should be reaching 32lb. I can bring my Lumen to 32lb if I drop the dropper, put on the new Fox 34 SL, 11 speed XX cassette and other weigh weenie mods, but there are diminishing returns like with everything. Having SL bike at 35 lb is great feeling; lightweight wheelset and tire combo is usually foundation for it.
Manufacturers can help in this process by pushing to make the motors smaller and batteries more powerful ! Agree.
I am surprised of seeing people actually voting for a stronger motor. Because then the SL is starting to move in Full Fat.... with likes of 85Nm where the full fat was 3 years ago.
It appears to me, that these votes might be coming from folks really wishing to have Full Fat bikes lighter. I cannot see a fit cyclist needing more than 60Nm from the motor.

The reality of SL bike is such, at least these days, that a rider must be willing to workout and SL bikes will likely never work too well for folks that are just too heavy or out of shape for lightweight XC bike. SL bike is more or less XC race bike or at best downcountry bike with a motor and smaller battery.

 

[erider1]

Quieter motor.

Thanks, added to option for voting..

 

[v950]

Fast charger

 

[erider1]

For the folks voting more than 65 Nm (350 W) of torque and power which equals to the output of new TQ HRP-60; are you sure you are voting for the SL type bike ? Asking for more Watts will likely not yield a lighter motor, at least not in the close future. Think physics. Perhaps you are in full fat category already and want a lighter full fat bike ?
We have to be realistic here, there is a reason there is full fat and SL. Currently one bike CANNOT do it all.

 

[MTcycler]

I'm very happy with two BOSCH SX bikes: Pivot Shuttle SL/AM (29"; 150mm/160mm) and Transition Regulator SX (mullet; 150mm/160mm). As technology and design advance, the most important improvements for me would be reduction in weight and (modest) increase in battery range.

 

[The undecided]

Bosch SX owner here and as much as I physically enjoy riding it,having a non removable 400wh battery is the worst of ALL worlds.
Having to add a range extender on any SL bike imho defeats the “SL” genre handling wise.
I’d just prefer a 600wh battery with NO added weight increase.

 

[Heckler Sb130]

Lighter weight. SL bikes should be under 40lbs. Especially since full powered by are now hitting upper/mid 40’s

 

[Str1fe]

I think the SL category is in the sweet spot when it comes to motors. The TQ HPR60, Bosch SX, and Fazua 60, for example, are powerful enough, and I was blown away by the range of the new TQ motor, which led me to purchase a Propain Sresh SL.

&I think the debate often misses the point when people ask, 'What’s the point of SL when there’s Avinox?' Aside from the fact that some people sound like Avinox salesmen, I believe there are riders who don’t mind not having full power. I’m one of them, and I know others in my circle who feel the same way. So, there’s definitely a market (and if SL bikes are still being made, it’s because they’re selling).

I like full fat e-bikes they’re fun too but when I hear people say that 350W/400W and 60Nm is 'weak' or ' it's almostlike an analog bike,' I honestly don’t understand their mindset. But yeah I'm sure they all develop 600 watts of constant power on their analog MTBs......

For SL bikes, I think if they save some weight and extend the range, they’ll be perfect.

 

[The undecided]

I think the SL category is in the sweet spot when it comes to motors. The TQ HPR60, Bosch SX, and Fazua 60, for example, are powerful enough, and I was blown away by the range of the new TQ motor, which led me to purchase a Propain Sresh SL.

&I think the debate often misses the point when people ask, 'What’s the point of SL when there’s Avinox?' Aside from the fact that some people sound like Avinox salesmen, I believe there are riders who don’t mind not having full power. I’m one of them, and I know others in my circle who feel the same way. So, there’s definitely a market (and if SL bikes are still being made, it’s because they’re selling).

I like full fat e-bikes they’re fun too but when I hear people say that 350W/400W and 60Nm is 'weak' or ' it's almostlike an analog bike,' I honestly don’t understand their mindset. But yeah I'm sure they all develop 600 watts of constant power on their analog MTBs......

For SL bikes, I think if they save some weight and extend the range, they’ll be perfect.

Many many years ago Pirelli had a big advert out for their tyres with their catchphrase being “power is nothing without control”.How true!
Yesterday the only way I was able to negotiate up a steep muddy slope was to use eco on my SX bike:not completely a tyre related issue but more motor related.
IMHO I don’t think it would have been possible on a full power high torque bike no matter how detuned the motor was even using similar tyres as mine.
Remember-it’s that instant available TORQUE from an electric motor that spins your wheels irrespective of max power figures and why I feel there’s still a place for SL bikes depending whatever/wherever you ride.
By comparison my old 1.2 Renault Clio got me everywhere during the UK beast from the east winter in 2018 whereas my turbo diesel van was forever getting stuck.
Deffo horses for courses.

 

[Mcharza]

I'm very happy with two BOSCH SX bikes: Pivot Shuttle SL/AM (29"; 150mm/160mm) and Transition Regulator SX (mullet; 150mm/160mm). As technology and design advance, the most important improvements for me would be reduction in weight and (modest) increase in battery range.

Maybe it will happen when next-generation batteries are a reality. Until then, I am very happy with the TR Regulator SX.

 

[darwink1]

I want no derailleur.

D

 

[erider1]

I’d just prefer a 600wh battery with NO added weight increase.

...sure, who would not? it is just not very realistic now...
maybe in ten years we may have 600wh as big/heavy as today's 400wh... and even that seems way optimistic to me...

 

[CJaMTB]

I have two SL bikes currently, a Fuel EXe (2.5kgs running a very burly spec and with tools, spares, pedals, bottle cage, mudguards, etc) and a Fourstroke AMP LT (17kgs), both running HPR50 and 360Wh batteries. I have also had a Levo SL, Gen1, for four years, and the EXe is about to make way for a 2025 Slash+, also on HPR50. I love these bikes and find they have more than enough assistance for my needs, even with legs so injured I was told I'd never ride again!

Higher energy density giving lower all-up weights is what I'd be stoked to get.

 

[Scott_123]

Unfortunately I think the SL market is going to slowly die. I said a year ago I see SL and full power merging into one eventually. Full power bikes are getting lighter and in many cases they weigh the same or are lighter than many SL bikes on the market. Another reason is integration which the full power bikes keep improving more and more. With Avinox you can tune it down to an SL power level if you wish and basically have massive rides if that’s your thing. Basically we are at a point where an EMTB owner can have their cake and eat it too. From everything I’ve read SL bikes are selling at a tiny fraction compared to full power and this alone will be the nail in the coffin.

 

[erider1]

Unfortunately I think the SL market is going to slowly die. I said a year ago I see SL and full power merging into one eventually. Full power bikes are getting lighter and in many cases they weigh the same or are lighter than many SL bikes on the market.

Can you name several examples? I think this statement is completely wrong in general...

 

[erider1]

SL vs Full fat: If all was just a question of less powerful motor vs more powerful motor being mounted and the rest being equal, then perhaps the FF could reach the territory of SL and the difference would be perhaps only 1 lb or so. But normally with more powerful motor comes a larger battery, burlier fork, burlier frame, larger brakes, heavier tires... and more, and all that amounts to 5-10 lb difference and people asking for it. Most owners of FF want 150mm fork as minimum. A good SL is at 37lb and good light FF probably sub 50 (maybe 45). You can make FF at 37lb likely but that is then FF Exotic. Many folks really do not care much for that weight in FF as long as the bike can haul them up the hill. Where else in the SL, the lightness is almost a necessity and the bike rides quite differently if it is 42lb with heavy wheels or 35lb with SL wheels, especially if rider using very little assistance from the motor and relying on his own power.

 

[dbloom]

35 lbs.

 

[Roaming50]

I’ve had an Orbea Ride H15 (heavily modified) since 2022. I’ve found the 60nm 350w max power plenty, even too much often, and couldn’t imaging more. It was noisy though.

I recently picked up a Lauf eElja with the TQ HPR60. Even though it has the same max 60nm 350w max power, the Shimano on the Rise feels more powerful, but the TQ is totally natural and it is very quiet. I found technical terrain easier on the TQ over the EP8rs. I’m a total convert.

My Lauf, for a size large is 37.7lb. It feels light, because it is. With the motor off, it rides like a normal bike and I can ride with meat powered riders no problem. I even found I can easily remove the battery (360wh) even though it is not advertised as such. That could also be useful. This is not a big play bike though, very much an XC rig.

So I intend to get a second SL bike but one aimed at all mountain for back country adventure and big mountain riding.

I’m smitten over the TQ but for this bike I would like to see a bit more power. Not much more but some. I would like to see a motor that has a boost mode that can go to around 90nm and say 500w with 300% assist. It should be quiet and natural. The Maxon Air S look great but will probably never make it to the US do I’m holding out for TQ. That said, the Trek Fuel+ LX is looking mighty tempting.

I hope the next versions of TQ has that capability. Along with that, better/slimmer battery technology and faster charging is key. Having a removable battery is importantly as well.

There is still much of America where eMTB is not allowed. While most systems you can ignore than if your on a stealthy machine and are not an a-hole on a busy day, I intended to get rid on my remaining regular bikes. So having the option to remove the battery and still ride would be good.

 

[TonTonUB]

Considering the maxon drive air (90 Nm and 600 W peak power), and the upcoming releases (we can expect some ZF / TQ like motor, ie 'soda can' form factor with something around 100 NM / 800 W peak power in 2027), SL bikes will have to improve dramatically.
Ultra light motor and batteries, ultra efficient, up to 60-75 Nm and 600 W peak power could be the right spot (under 18 kg) ... till next monster tech jump from FF ebikes ?

 

[Dax]

Can you name several examples? I think this statement is completely wrong in general...

Amflow PL Carbon Pro, weighs about 20.6 kg

Whyte elyte 150 rsx was about 20.5 last time I weighed one.

My KSL is about 19kg.

 

[stuff]

Amflow PL Carbon Pro, weighs about 20.6 kg

Whyte elyte 150 rsx was about 20.5 last time I weighed one.

My KSL is about 19kg.

20kg is still fat.
There's just a really notable difference when an ebike goes below 18kg, of course not going uphill

 

[F4Flyer]

Higher BB and denser batteries. Do not want more power or more weight.

 

[Dax]

20kg is still fat.
There's just a really notable difference when an ebike goes below 18kg, of course not going uphill

Agreed.

 

[Scott_123]

Can you name several examples? I think this statement is completely wrong in general...

It is my opinion. I own an SL and full power and both are less than 2 years old. My full power essentially weighs the same as my SL and not too long ago could you say that. Additionally; prices are dropping on full power bikes, so even if you are looking at an SL you can now have your cake and eat it too with full power. At the end of the day SL survival will come down to the sales numbers.

 

[Str1fe]

People have been saying the SL category is dying for years now… but apparently not. The new TQ motor, Bosch SX, and Fazua (despite all the issues and the company shutting down) are still proving there’s demand for lightweight e-bikes.

People also need to compare apples to apples. The Amflow is mainly a trail bike. If you look at actual enduro bikes using the DJI motor — Forbidden, Propain Ekano 3, YT, etc. — they’re more in the 23–25 kg range.

Meanwhile bikes like the Yeti MTe, Propain Sresh SL, or Trek Fuel+ are around 19–20 kg. And honestly, 5 kg is very noticeable on a mountain bike.

Also, the Amflow drains battery like crazy if you actually use the motor the way it’s intended (to ride fast). At some point, that insane power becomes less relevant because either your skills or your battery management become the limiting factor.

There’s clearly room for both mid-power bikes and full-power e-bikes. Some people still want to sweat a bit, even on an e-bike

 

[Scott_123]

People have been saying the SL category is dying for years now… but apparently not. The new TQ motor, Bosch SX, and Fazua (despite all the issues and the company shutting down) are still proving there’s demand for lightweight e-bikes.

People also need to compare apples to apples. The Amflow is mainly a trail bike. If you look at actual enduro bikes using the DJI motor — Forbidden, Propain Ekano 3, YT, etc. — they’re more in the 23–25 kg range.

Meanwhile bikes like the Yeti MTe, Propain Sresh SL, or Trek Fuel+ are around 19–20 kg. And honestly, 5 kg is very noticeable on a mountain bike.

Also, the Amflow drains battery like crazy if you actually use the motor the way it’s intended (to ride fast). At some point, that insane power becomes less relevant because either your skills or your battery management become the limiting factor.

There’s clearly room for both mid-power bikes and full-power e-bikes. Some people still want to sweat a bit, even on an e-bike

My point is you don’t need to use a high power mode. I ride my Amflow about 80% of the time tuned to 60Nm @350W. I weigh 200 lb and can go about 54 miles with about 2,000 ft of climbing. I simply can’t do that on my SL bike no matter what. I haven’t done any research yet but I suspect SL bikes are selling at a fraction of full power.

 

[Str1fe]

Yes, of course SL bikes are less popular than full-power e-bikes, but I still don’t really get why so many Amflow riders come into SL threads just to explain why this segment “doesn’t make sense.” Sometimes it feels more like people trying to reassure themselves about their own choice than simply accepting that others enjoy something different. And I’m not necessarily talking about you specifically, it’s just something I see constantly online with Amflow riders in general.

As I already said, some riders care more about the “bike” part than the “e” part. I tried an Amflow myself and, personally, I found it pretty average as an actual bike, and honestly not very good looking either, kind of like a 10 year old Specialized design. That said, the motor is undeniably excellent.

At the end of the day, everyone values different things in a bike: looks, motor performance, kinematics, weight, ride feel, handling, fitness aspect, etc.

For example, to me, my Propain Sresh SL looks far better, feels more natural on the trail, and is a better downhill bike than the Amflow (far better). Your whole argument basically comes down to motor power and battery range, which is fine, but those aren’t the only things people care about.

Everyone has a different philosophy when it comes to riding mountain bikes.