Upgrades and changing components prohibited

[crembz]

So I was chatting to yt today asking about size recommendations for a decoy (first emtb) I mentioned I'd prefer the small but would like to use a longer stem (60mm) or drop the fork travel to 160mm to increase reach slightly.

I was told that because emtbs are CE that you're not allowed to make these modifications. I was sent a document outlining what you are legally allowed to modify and what needs manufacturer approvals.

You can only change the stem length within parameters with the exact same make and model as stock. You are not allowed to change the fork or brakes at all. You're not allowed to change wheel sizes for those who've gone mullet on the 29 etc. They didn't like thati wanted to use my axs dropper either. I must say it's completely turned me off owning a yt... Motor dies ... 'sorry mate you used an unapproved stem and so we cannot warranty your motor'

Is anythin anyone aware of this and does this extend to other emtbs also?

 

[crembz]

Here's the document of anyone's interested

 

[Jackware]

if you read this article - it highlights that they are Guidelines (not legally binding) presumably to ensure retailers don't use inferior parts or invalidate warranties unknowingly;

German Guideline on Replacement of E-Bike Components - Bike Europe

German Guideline on Replacement of E-Bike Components
Market
BAD SODEN, Germany – To provide an insight for retailers on what’s permitted or not when exchanging CE approved 25 km/h e-bike components in their workshops, the German industry associations agreed on an uniform guideline. Though without a legal base this document could be pose an important standard for other European countries as well.
“This document gives the retailer at least an overview on best practice when replacing a part or component of an e-bike.” – Photo Bike Europe
According to the German industry association Zweirad Industrie Verband (ZIV) and the dealer association VSF it, “Is still unclear which components of an e-bike might be changed, repaired or replaced in case of a breakdown without approval by the e-bike manufacturer and/or the supplier of the electronic drive system.”
The future has to prove the practicability of the list. For a lot of components, like a motor or a battery, it is obvious to contact the bicycle manufacturer or electronic drive system supplier. But who would even think about getting approval from the components manufacturer when replacing a tyre or a rim tape?
Not on an European level
When asked, ZIV general manager Siegfried Neuberger, points out that, “The guideline is the result of a discussion in Germany between ZIV and VSF. At the moment we are not preparing to bring this document to a European level.” This means it will also not be included in the current review of the EN 15194 for e-bikes.
In close cooperation with the Zedler Institute on Cycling Technology and Safety, the industry associations developed a joint guideline. “This document gives the retailer at least an overview on best practice when replacing a part or component of an e-bike,” the three organizations stated in a joint press release today.
Interpretation of the legal situation
“Earlier this year we (the industry associations ZIV and VSF) got into a discussion and the legal situation was interpreted differently by the bicycle industry and other stakeholders represented by the VSF. However we agreed that clarification on this issue would be of great importance to all partners in the industry,” was said in the press release.
The document divides the e-bike components in four categories and provides different options on what to do in case of a replacement. The four categories are:

1. Components which can only be replaced after approval by the bicycle manufacturer/electronic drive system provider.
2. Components which can only be replaced after approval by the bicycle manufacturer.
3. Components which can only be replaced after approval by the bicycle or components manufacturer.
4. Components which can be replaced without approval.

For some components like the pedals, which can be replace without approval, the listing provides additional information in order to maintain the appropriate safety level.
The future has to prove the practicability of the list. For a lot of components, like a motor or a battery, it is clear to contact the bicycle manufacturer or electronic system supplier. But who would even think about getting approval from the components manufacturer when replacing a tyre or a rim tape?

 

[crembz]

Understand and that was my thought, they're guidelines. At the end of the day CE is not legally recognised where I live anyway, my concern is more with yt's attitude stating 'you are not allowed to ride the bike if you change components'. I'd hate to be arguing the merits of guideline vs law with them if ever I needed to make a warranty claim.

Funny thing is they initially told me a small frame with a longer stem might work better for me than a medium if I wanted agility then backpedaled and said they wouldn't approve a stem change and I should get the medium ?

 

[Mikerb]

ZIV and Zelder trying to justify their existance!!
Shimano and Bosch warranty their motors and batteries..not the bike manufacturer. Most components on the bike are warrantied by the component supplier ( Fox/RS)....not the bike manufacturer.

That effectively leaves the frame to be warrantied ( or not) by the bike brand. They are best placed to advise what could or could not compromise the frame and so they are entitled to warn against certain modifications which would invalidate their warranty. Examples are changing suspension travel or type.
I cannot see dealers, bike brands, or component suppliers supporting any arbitrary legal restrictions by a body like ZIV.
Summary...ignore it!!

 

[leftside]

Don't think this is true. I've replaced every part on my Decoy apart from frame, battery and motor. YT (North America) happily still deal with me Maybe it's because I've purchased a second Decoy for the family.

Also, with my Commencal they happily put on a shorter stem. I'm also thinking of changing it from a 27.5 to a mullet, and they told me what I needed to do, even though they recommended I keep the bike as a 27.5

 

[RustyIron]

CE? Is that some kind of law?
Are there CE police who will haul you away if you install a new stem?

 

[flash]

So I was chatting to yt today asking about size recommendations for a decoy (first emtb) I mentioned I'd prefer the small but would like to use a longer stem (60mm) or drop the fork travel to 160mm to increase reach slightly.

I was told that because emtbs are CE that you're not allowed to make these modifications. I was sent a document outlining what you are legally allowed to modify and what needs manufacturer approvals.

You can only change the stem length within parameters with the exact same make and model as stock. You are not allowed to change the fork or brakes at all. You're not allowed to change wheel sizes for those who've gone mullet on the 29 etc. They didn't like thati wanted to use my axs dropper either. I must say it's completely turned me off owning a yt... Motor dies ... 'sorry mate you used an unapproved stem and so we cannot warranty your motor'

Is anythin anyone aware of this and does this extend to other emtbs also?

This might be true in some jurisdictions but not in Oz. Some (like changing fork travel) would definitely apply, if they go outside of manufacturers tested specifications but mostly they can be ignored and Oz consumer law would make it mandatory for any goods sold here to be covered properly. Here, changing the brakes has no effect on the motor being warrantied but if your new brakes fail and you crash into a tree and bend the frame you might not be covered. Same if you damage the frame by jamming in that AXS post too far.

On my eZesty I needed a bottom bracket unit for my Fazua motor. That bike had NO original parts except the motor, headset, shock and frame. Full AXS build and new fork, cranks, stem. bars..... Importer was awesome and even commented on bike build. Part arrived in a few days.

The issue is can you get a company from another country to do the right thing because it'd be nearly impossible to enforce the rules. If you want local protections you need to buy local.

Gordon

 

[crembz]

This might be true in some jurisdictions but not in Oz. Some (like changing fork travel) would definitely apply, if they go outside of manufacturers tested specifications but mostly they can be ignored and Oz consumer law would make it mandatory for any goods sold here to be covered properly. Here, changing the brakes has no effect on the motor being warrantied but if your new brakes fail and you crash into a tree and bend the frame you might not be covered. Same if you damage the frame by jamming in that AXS post too far.

On my eZesty I needed a bottom bracket unit for my Fazua motor. That bike had NO original parts except the motor, headset, shock and frame. Full AXS build and new fork, cranks, stem. bars..... Importer was awesome and even commented on bike build. Part arrived in a few days.

The issue is can you get a company from another country to do the right thing because it'd be nearly impossible to enforce the rules. If you want local protections you need to buy local.

Gordon

That's exactly what I figured as well but it was my first contact with yt directly and I was a little unimpressed with the response. I'll be buying local but it's a little slow getting any sort of questions answered by pushys.

 

[Pdoz]

That's exactly what I figured as well but it was my first contact with yt directly and I was a little unimpressed with the response. I'll be buying local but it's a little slow getting any sort of questions answered by pushys.

Consider this from a store / manufacturer perspective , it probably has more relevance to liability than warranty. If they write anything that implies acceptance of your modifications , they become exposed when lawyers get involved. I expect their insurers will have been clear on their expectations / exclusions, and not deviating from manufacturers recommendations would be typed in bold.

So from an Aus perspective, if that longer stem changes the steering characteristics and you feel emotionally distressed by missing the perfect line, slime and perves son would be very interested to see your screenshot from pushys. In person, a dealer can wink and explain how you are " not allowed" to fit that stem. It's a lot more difficult online.

Standing upon the soap box and perched on the edge of this thread - buisiness insurance in Australia is a nightmare at the moment. Constantly changing expectations with political agenda not aligned with legislation. Try asking your insurer if you need to develop a staff / customer immunisation policy - then repeat the question 10 minutes later. Consider how many insurance companies have their lawyers cowering in corners after missing the change in pandemic laws

 

[crembz]

Consider this from a store / manufacturer perspective , it probably has more relevance to liability than warranty. If they write anything that implies acceptance of your modifications , they become exposed when lawyers get involved. I expect their insurers will have been clear on their expectations / exclusions, and not deviating from manufacturers recommendations would be typed in bold.

So from an Aus perspective, if that longer stem changes the steering characteristics and you feel emotionally distressed by missing the perfect line, slime and perves son would be very interested to see your screenshot from pushys. In person, a dealer can wink and explain how you are " not allowed" to fit that stem. It's a lot more difficult online.

Standing upon the soap box and perched on the edge of this thread - buisiness insurance in Australia is a nightmare at the moment. Constantly changing expectations with political agenda not aligned with legislation. Try asking your insurer if you need to develop a staff / customer immunisation policy - then repeat the question 10 minutes later. Consider how many insurance companies have their lawyers cowering in corners after missing the change in pandemic laws

Totally understand, still I've never in all my years been told you can't change a stem ?. I literally laughed at my PC when that came through ?