Trek Powerfly LT 9.9 vs Specialized Kenevo

[Topcat1910]

I had a demo on the powerfly FS7 the other day and loved it, obviously the 9.9 is going to be better but everyone is telling me to get the Kenevo Expert.... no where to test ride it near me so hoping to get reviews on people who have ridden both motors etc

 

[fasterisbest]

I love my 2018 Kenevo Expert. I'm sure the Trek rides pretty good, too. But for me it was the geometry and battery integration. It is also a good idea to get the most powerful battery you can. Kenevo has a 504wh battery and the new Levo has a 700wh battery, not sure about the Powerfly. I think your debate should be over the Kenevo and the Decoy, not the Trek. But depends on your style of riding and where you ride. If you ride in a mountainous region I would go for the Kenevo or the YT Decoy but if your area is a little flatter I'd likely go with a Levo or possibly the Trek. The Kenevo and the Decoy are pretty serious downhill machines. The Levo, although capable, isn't quite as aggressively setup as the Kenevo. I have had no problems with the motor, yet. It is pretty smooth and fairly quiet. 2018 Kenevo Expert.

 

[Donnie797]

Despite geometry, suspension, dealer network/availability, components and stuff one of the reasons for my Kenevo was the Brose motor, the ultra small remote, the app support and connectivity and the many different settings you can configure at your will without needing a big bulky display on the bike. It gives the most natural feeling of riding a bike of all ebikes around, it's stealthy, no display on the bars unless you add one (i use it with a garmin fenix watch and it works great). I can really geek out over the settings if i want, but don't have to when i just wanna have fun on the bike.

The Bosch system is different - ECO mode always kicks in with 50% motor power assist and feels very "on/off" compared to Brose and Shimano. Also the Bosch motor doesn't decouple that good when riding over 25km/h and you will definitely feel "the wall" when you hit that spot.
(I do have the Kenevo Expert, my wife rides a Mondraker with Bosch)

I'm not saying the Bosch system is bad, but it's just not made for me. It's fine if you don't care about the "on/off" feel and don't care about configuration stuff and connectivity - my wife loves it.

 

[Doomanic]

The Bosch system is different - ECO mode always kicks in with 50% motor power

Not quite. Bosch and Spesh report assistance differently.
Bosch Eco mode is 50% assist, not power, so for every watt the rider generates the motor generated 0.5W.
I have a Powerfly and it’s great. I’ve ridden a Shimano motored bike and several Brose motored bikes and guess what? They were great too. I haven’t ridden a Kenevo, but have a few friends with them. They think they’re great.
Having said that, the Bosch is almost certainly going to be replaced this year so I’d be hesitant to buy anything with a Bosch motor in it at this point.

 

[ggx]

I tend to like/dislike different bikes in their different characteristics, pros and cons. I´ve tested the Spz expert Levo with high expectations due to everything that it´s published and for sure it has lots of merits, but also some nigles . For average riders like me maybe can´t absorve the complete potencial of every bike (and maybe also the cons).
About motors I like for ex the bosch emtb mode, and also the characteristics off the brose and the smothness off the shimano. So , again different characteristics.
Price is also a important part in the pros and cons part.
So good advise is to test ride bikes for yourself .

 

[Donnie797]

Not quite. Bosch and Spesh report assistance differently.
Bosch Eco mode is 50% assist, not power, so for every watt the rider generates the motor generated 0.5W.
I have a Powerfly and it’s great. I’ve ridden a Shimano motored bike and several Brose motored bikes and guess what? They were great too. I haven’t ridden a Kenevo, but have a few friends with them. They think they’re great.
Having said that, the Bosch is almost certainly going to be replaced this year so I’d be hesitant to buy anything with a Bosch motor in it at this point.

Yes you're totally right, i've corrected that above. But the difference of the motors engaging and cutting off assistance is pretty "feelable", i don't just tell that because i'm a Kenevo fanboy rider I can enjoy riding my wifes Bosch bike as well, but it's just not what i want on a regular basis. The Boschs emtb mode is pretty cool by the way! Before i did choose the Kenevo i've test-ridden all available motors (i do recommend this to everyone)... and the Brose won it for me.

 

[Topcat1910]

thanks for all the replies... the Decoy and the Levo is not an option for me basically my friend owns a bike shop and I can get Trek and Specialised cheap which rules out the Decoy and with the Levo I am not wanting another bike with 29 wheels I have a 2019 specialised enduro and do not really bond with it!

I had a quick go of someones levo the other day and it did feel really smooth but not as powerful as the bosch motor but I did notice the 'the wall' of the bosch once it cut out but I could live with that, especially with the way it climbs

For me the Trek seems a better deal as it has a carbon frame and wheels, fox factory suspension and a better drive chain. The only thing that puts me off it is the lack of reviews online as most people have the Kenevo which makes me think is it the price difference (Kenevo £5,500 and the LT 9.9 £7,250) or is the Kenevo the better bike?!

I love the look of the Kenevo but for me it feels a little dated with the battery indicator being on the side and running the 1.3 motor while the new levees are running the 2.1 motor. Whats the Kenevo like with the climbs? Does the front wheel want to keep popping up?
Really I need to find somewhere that has a Kenevo to test ride as i've only got to sit on one in a shop and for a M frame it felt massive especially compared to my M enduro.


I am basically looking for a bike that climbs well but can throw it about on the descends!

 

[Doomanic]

the Decoy and the Levo is not an option for me basically my friend owns a bike shop and I can get Trek and Specialised cheap

How cheap? The Trek is £3k more than the Base Decoy and it's almost certainly a better bike. In fact, the Trek is Levo Carbon money and if I had to spend £7k on one or the other, right now it would be the Levo, purely for the bigger battery.

 

[R120]

This review is pretty accurate for the Trek based on most of the feedback I have heard.


And these guys are usually spot on

 

[Doomanic]

I'll have a watch of that later and tell you how it compares to my long term test of an LT.

 

[R120]

Personally I am really excited to see what Bosch come out with new motor wise, mainly because I think that their EMTB mode is the best of any of the current software modes offered on any bike, but the current motor and ancillaries such as remotes are now long in the tooth, but the software shows what they can do.

They have more experience than anyone else in the field so hoping to see something special.

 

[Doomanic]

I hope they come up with something more suited to MTBing than the Kiox.

 

[R120]

I agree - I mean if I was designing a new motor it’s pretty easy to see what works and what doesn’t right now

E.g a couple off top of my head.

Small mode controller like the Specialized or Shimano E7000

Optional display/ multiple display options so user can decide if they want one or not

Easy to use app with customisation of power levels and user downloadable system updates.

700wh ?

They only need to look at the competition

 

[Doomanic]

Fully decouple when not assisting.

 

[thewildblue]

Me and my friend have had a series of bikes since September last year, which include, the 2019 LT7, LT9, LT9.9, 2019 Levo Carbon expert, 2019 Levo FSR, keveno Expert and 2019 Powerplay Carbon 70.

The bosch motor is more powerful than the Brose in the Kenevo ( the 1.3 motor) but not quite as good low down as the Levo motor ( 2.1 brose). However in a drag race the Bosch and 2.1 Brose are the same, its more down to the riders legs. We currently have the LT7, the 2 Levos and the RM left between us. The Trek is similar to the Kenevo at descending, though not as good. The Trek is really good at climbs.

The Kenevo is a bargain as they can be had in the 4k bracket.

The RM eats them all for sheer power though and is very lively/fun to ride.

Ive put 1300 miles on the LT7 and its been great.

If you want a trek get the LT9 as its very similar in spec to the 9.9 and is worth the extra money over the 7. But really it comes down to how you want to ride and where you ride, plus what bike fits you best. Weve found the Kenevo to eat the most battery compared to the other bikes. The Levo 500watt is pretty much the same as the bosch 500watt from what weve seen on identical rides.

 

[Topcat1910]

Me and my friend have had a series of bikes since September last year, which include, the 2019 LT7, LT9, LT9.9, 2019 Levo Carbon expert, 2019 Levo FSR, keveno Expert and 2019 Powerplay Carbon 70.

The bosch motor is more powerful than the Brose in the Kenevo ( the 1.3 motor) but not quite as good low down as the Levo motor ( 2.1 brose). However in a drag race the Bosch and 2.1 Brose are the same, its more down to the riders legs. We currently have the LT7, the 2 Levos and the RM left between us. The Trek is similar to the Kenevo at descending, though not as good. The Trek is really good at climbs.

The Kenevo is a bargain as they can be had in the 4k bracket.

The RM eats them all for sheer power though and is very lively/fun to ride.

Ive put 1300 miles on the LT7 and its been great.

If you want a trek get the LT9 as its very similar in spec to the 9.9 and is worth the extra money over the 7. But really it comes down to how you want to ride and where you ride, plus what bike fits you best. Weve found the Kenevo to eat the most battery compared to the other bikes. The Levo 500watt is pretty much the same as the bosch 500watt from what weve seen on identical rides.

This is perfect! Thank you!

 

[Tribey]

And what decision Topcat?

 

[brizi2003]

I have a Kenevo Comp and my son has a Trek Powerfly LT7. They are both great but they are different. Both have plenty of power, the Trek feels like the power is an instant hit whereas the Specialized feels like it's gradually building up. Being able to re-tune the Specialized via the Mission Control app is useful if you want to reduce the power being provided in order to better manage the battery over a longer distance. The Trek EMTB mode is good but I've found a similar (but not exactly the same) thing can be acheived on the Specialized by playing with the assist/motor power settings. Overall peak power and battery range are very similar. I've found the Kenevo has made a great all rounder but it excels on rough downhill and helps build rider confidence on steep/technical downs. It also climbs fine but on very very steep ascents that you couldn't do on an analogue bike the front does lift a bit more easily than the Trek. I think this is down the Trek lower front end and longer chain stays. I would also say that the Trek has a slight edge when it comes to cornering on single track - it just seems to go where you want with more accuracy. I would put this down to a combination of the less relaxed geometry and less suspension travel. The Kenevo needs more rider input to get it to go where you want. Reliability... The Specialized has destroyed chains faster (cheap EMC chain fitted as standard), had a rear wheel bearing replaced, had a battery replacement (wouldn't charge) and currently has a warranty claim for play in bottom bracket (which being integral to the sealed motor - means new motor) - it has cover 1000 miles over 6 months. I have met several Specialized owners on the local trails (Both Kenevo & Levo) and everyone of them has had battery or motor or both replaced under warranty. The sealed motor with integral bottom bracket seems like a bad idea if the seals aren't good enough to keep out the elements. This particular problem has been mentioned by others on these forums. Up until a week ago I would have said that the Trek has also been more reliable but this is no longer the case. My sons battery lock mounting came loose and it turns out the mounting bolts had been pulled through the frame downtube. Initially Trek offered a 'fix' involving the installation of plates inside and outside the frame tube to secure the battery mount. The external plate is about 2" square and is coloured black (frame is grey). Not something you want on your £4.5K bike. So they are now doing a frame replacement. I'm no sure if the new frame will be different or will still include this design flaw. Sorry for the negative rant but that is my experience. I have bought another analogue bike to keep riding whilst my bike is awaiting it's latest warranty approval/repair - estimated time 1 month! Like I said though - both great bikes when working - a bit like Italian sports cars in that respect!

 

[thewildblue]

Interesting what you say about the LT7 and the battery mounting. A few months ago my battery started to rattle and actually jumped out at one point. I initially thought it was the lock at the top, but it turned out to be the T10/15 ( cant remember which) anti tamper screws had started to loosen down at the bottom of the frame. A quick tighten up of these and its been all good so far. Recently me and a few friends did the EMBN 5500ft route in the lakes. 2 of them were on Kenevos. They Eco'ed and rode with them off as much as possible, where-as I had a spare battery so just EMTB'ed everywhere. When we stopped for food near the end I had pretty much the same battery life left as them( ~30%), but I hadn't been saving any ( Had a spare in my bag). So like for like they did seem to be juicer ( both are 2019 Kenevo Experts) than my LT7.

 

[brizi2003]

Interesting what you say about the LT7 and the battery mounting. A few months ago my battery started to rattle and actually jumped out at one point. I initially thought it was the lock at the top, but it turned out to be the T10/15 ( cant remember which) anti tamper screws had started to loosen down at the bottom of the frame. A quick tighten up of these and its been all good so far. Recently me and a few friends did the EMBN 5500ft route in the lakes. 2 of them were on Kenevos. They Eco'ed and rode with them off as much as possible, where-as I had a spare battery so just EMTB'ed everywhere. When we stopped for food near the end I had pretty much the same battery life left as them( ~30%), but I hadn't been saving any ( Had a spare in my bag). So like for like they did seem to be juicer ( both are 2019 Kenevo Experts) than my LT7.

Trek are doing a full frame replacement for my sons LT7 due to failure of the frame near the battery mount bolts. The dealer provide a statement from Trek saying the new frame battery mounting points had been 'strengthened internally' - so looks like Trek have acknowledged there is a problem and introduced a modified frame! RE: battery range - if you rode together that would make sense since the same speed/distance etc. would consume the same power assuming your all the same level of fitness. Fitness level seems to play a major part in battery range a fitter rider definitely uses less battery for the same speed/distance. When I've ridden both bikes around the same route at the same speed (both in ECO) I've found the battery range to be very similar.

 

[thewildblue]

Yeah, we all rode together, but they were off and eco mostly I was emtb and turbo mostly. If they have trailed and turboed the same as me they wouldn't have made the pub/charging station.Fitness level is about the same, one rider was lighter than me and the other slightly heavier, but i had a heavy backpack with extra battery, food water etc. Weve just found them to be noticeably juicier than both the Treks with the 500 battery and our 2019 Levos with the 500 battery.

Do you have any pictures on where it failed as it would be good to see.

 

[brizi2003]

Yeah, we all rode together, but they were off and eco mostly I was emtb and turbo mostly. If they have trailed and turboed the same as me they wouldn't have made the pub/charging station.Fitness level is about the same, one rider was lighter than me and the other slightly heavier, but i had a heavy backpack with extra battery, food water etc. Weve just found them to be noticeably juicier than both the Treks with the 500 battery and our 2019 Levos with the 500 battery.

Do you have any pictures on where it failed as it would be good to see.

I'll try to get some pics (bike at dealers)