Shimano ep8

[dwardale]

I own a couple or Orbea Rise bikes M20 and H30. Both bikes have needed new motors, in warranty. Owing one or these shimano driven bikes out of warranty would appear to be an expensive option. Very few spares available to make a repair possible and no service exchange? Having owned two bikes and needed two motors. Are they fit for purpose?
Can anyone see a future for shimano as a viable product.

 

[Coolcmsc]

Of course there is. Why? Because you (and I) dont matter to their business model.

They make all sorts of stuff and can afford to keep changing specifications rather than support you and I.

Bosch is surprising, because it is also diversified, but produces a few more parts.

The most distressing part of the story is not ‘the parts’ though. Very little other than the firmware on the chips can not be replicated by a third party. Shimano have told all their service centres they are not allowed to use the core software to ’calibrate’ motors fixed using any parts, far less third party parts. They (the service centres and Maddison I think it is) have a business to run and cant afford to take on Shimano who can just sell a few more expensive bits of fishing tackle, absurdly expensive chainsets that cost twice as much as a brand new motor etc.

As an owner, I feel your pain - my beautifully maintained low milage Bullit from 2021 with its life-time frame and b̶e̶a̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ (Edit bearing warranty from SC is worth a fraction of its true value as its so far out of it’s EP8 warranty.

 

[Paulquattro]

Welcome .

 

[steve_sordy]

I own a couple or Orbea Rise bikes M20 and H30. Both bikes have needed new motors, in warranty. Owing one or these shimano driven bikes out of warranty would appear to be an expensive option. Very few spares available to make a repair possible and no service exchange? Having owned two bikes and needed two motors. Are they fit for purpose?
Can anyone see a future for shimano as a viable product.

You are unfortunate, or maybe your type of riding is not sympathetic to motors on emtbs. There is a guy on here (@franciscoasismm ) who regularly gets 20,000km and more from his motors. I don't see how he can get that "regularly" without commuting, but however he does it, it shows that Shimano motors have legs.

My limited experience is of two Shimano motors, one e8000 with almost 3500 miles on it and 3 British winters. That was sold to a guy in London and he never came back to me with any sort of complaint. My current motor is a Shimano EP8 that is currently in its 4th winter and has 3400 miles on it. Neither motor has given me a moment's bother. Not only problem free, but there was/is no play in the crank axle and no unexpected noises of the sort you don't want to hear. My EP8 is very quiet, so quiet that other riders comment upon it. Maybe I just got a good one, but that would make two in a row several years apart, supplied by different bike brands. Maybe it's me?

I believe that a lot must depend upon the rider and what they expect from their bike. I read on here of people only ever using Boost (Turbo, whatever), that ride through streams, rivers and so forth. They do massive jumps on a frequent basis. They have chipped the motor so that they can exceed the design speed and at full, power. No wonder they go through motors at a rate of knots. The Specialized owners in particular seem to be proud that they are on their 4th or 5th motor, all under warranty. They praise the fact that they can get a replacement motor fitted very rapidly. Personally, I would run a mile from any brand that has motor failures with that sort of frequency. If I had one, I would never know when I set off whether I would get home again without being stranded miles from my car.

I agree with your point about how Shimano appearing to make life difficult for those who wish to repair or maintain their motors. I am convinced that it will backfire on them. But it hasn't so far, despite frequent comments in the media like yours. Unfortunately for me, I like the way the Shimano motors control their torque and power to deliver a superb ride experience, like me on a really good day when I was ten years younger. However, there are some motors that having ridden them I would never buy.

So despite all the alleged unpopularity why are there so many bikes out there with Shimano motors? I have already mentioned one, the ride experience. Another is that I believe that Shimano offer smaller minimum order quantities to the bike makers. That has to be a significant factor for a small brand. Tie that in with the drivetrains, brakes, wheels.... etc that Shimano can offer and they have a one stop shop. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Shimano offer design expertise to the brand as part of the package. I would.

I am now out of warranty on my current bike and I have already decided that if and when the motor or battery fails that I would replace either or both. It will be considerably cheaper than breaking the bike for spares. I have a good bike and I like it a lot, so I'd like to stay with it, provided of course that Shimano will have any spares for sale!! (Which is not a certainty!)

 

[dwardale]

You are unfortunate, or maybe your type of riding is not sympathetic to motors on emtbs. There is a guy on here (@franciscoasismm ) who regularly gets 20,000km and more from his motors. I don't see how he can get that "regularly" without commuting, but however he does it, it shows that Shimano motors have legs.

My limited experience is of two Shimano motors, one e8000 with almost 3500 miles on it and 3 British winters. That was sold to a guy in London and he never came back to me with any sort of complaint. My current motor is a Shimano EP8 that is currently in its 4th winter and has 3400 miles on it. Neither motor has given me a moment's bother. Not only problem free, but there was/is no play in the crank axle and no unexpected noises of the sort you don't want to hear. My EP8 is very quiet, so quiet that other riders comment upon it. Maybe I just got a good one, but that would make two in a row several years apart, supplied by different bike brands. Maybe it's me?

I believe that a lot must depend upon the rider and what they expect from their bike. I read on here of people only ever using Boost (Turbo, whatever), that ride through streams, rivers and so forth. They do massive jumps on a frequent basis. They have chipped the motor so that they can exceed the design speed and at full, power. No wonder they go through motors at a rate of knots. The Specialized owners in particular seem to be proud that they are on their 4th or 5th motor, all under warranty. They praise the fact that they can get a replacement motor fitted very rapidly. Personally, I would run a mile from any brand that has motor failures with that sort of frequency. If I had one, I would never know when I set off whether I would get home again without being stranded miles from my car.

I agree with your point about how Shimano appearing to make life difficult for those who wish to repair or maintain their motors. I am convinced that it will backfire on them. But it hasn't so far, despite frequent comments in the media like yours. Unfortunately for me, I like the way the Shimano motors control their torque and power to deliver a superb ride experience, like me on a really good day when I was ten years younger. However, there are some motors that having ridden them I would never buy.

So despite all the alleged unpopularity why are there so many bikes out there with Shimano motors? I have already mentioned one, the ride experience. Another is that I believe that Shimano offer smaller minimum order quantities to the bike makers. That has to be a significant factor for a small brand. Tie that in with the drivetrains, brakes, wheels.... etc that Shimano can offer and they have a one stop shop. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Shimano offer design expertise to the brand as part of the package. I would.

I am now out of warranty on my current bike and I have already decided that if and when the motor or battery fails that I would replace either or both. It will be considerably cheaper than breaking the bike for spares. I have a good bike and I like it a lot, so I'd like to stay with it, provided of course that Shimano will have any spares for sale!! (Which is not a certainty!)

I am an engineer aged 62yrs my wife is 61yrs. Been riding mtb for many years. In comparison to many of my friends who are a lot younger we are gently with our bikes. I only use eco because I have normal bikes as well that I need to keep fit for. No washing of the bike unless it is already wet from a ride always garaged. If a couple of elders can go through motors what chance would a keen young person have with one of these bikes. Most that I know are sticking to the none electric. Fear of unreliabuility.

 

[steve_sordy]

I am an engineer aged 62yrs my wife is 61yrs. Been riding mtb for many years. In comparison to many of my friends who are a lot younger we are gently with our bikes. I only use eco because I have normal bikes as well that I need to keep fit for. No washing of the bike unless it is already wet from a ride always garaged. If a couple of elders can go through motors what chance would a keen young person have with one of these bikes. Most that I know are sticking to the none electric. Fear of unreliabuility.

Just really unlucky then.
Commiserations, but don't let it put you off emtb!

Do you use a hosepipe to wash the bikes by any chance?
Or worse, a jetwash!!!!!

 

[dwardale]

Just really unlucky then.
Commiserations, but don't let it put you off emtb!

Do you use a hosepipe to wash the bikes by any chance?
Or worse, a jetwash!!!!!

Only bucket of cold water. It rains a lot in northan England. Trails never seem to dry out. The fault I had was the cadence sensor on the pcb?

 

[timo2824]

I wash my ep801 with a garden hose and it sees plenty of mud. I think the company that works on motors is making some splash shields for the ep8 series that might help you out. FYI they also work on the Shimano motors if they're out of warranty. I think the guy goes by bearing man or something on here.

 

[steve_sordy]

The last I heard, Bearing Man wasn't doing Shimano motors, for a variety of reasons. So don't get your hopes up too high.

 

[dwardale]

The last I heard, Bearing Man wasn't doing Shimano motors, for a variety of reasons. So don't get your hopes up too high.

Yes that's what I've heard aswell. I did try and buy my old motor back off the dealer. I know a bit of a long shot, but I would love to take it apart and have a good look at it's internals.

 

[darwink1]

I've been pretty lucky with the ep8's and e8000 I've owned/own.

The e8000 Norco bigfoot is an 18' model year and it sees -20 temps along with mud, slush and rain in the spring and fall, no issues. Gets rinsed off at the car wash regularly, no issues.

My 23' bigfoot ep8 only has 700km so far but again, regular -10 to -20 temps, mud , rain , slush, car wash rinses... no issues.

22 Bullit bricked up at 1800km but that was my fault for fucking with the speed sensor to get a higher cutoff. New motor has 1600km and still going strong. Been riding it in winter as well since we haven't gotten much snow this year so its seen +40 to -20. As my main summer bike this thing sees mud, gets ridden in downpours and is ridden hard. No issues.

Hoping this streak lasts lol.

D

 

[dwardale]

Maybe just luck of the draw. But shouldn't be.
Mine failed 1200mls and 12months old. Internal sensor problem. Bearings good.
Wife's failed 1800mls 12months old. internal noise. Easier to live with if parts where made available.

 

[Ridgydidge]

Sobering read, this

 

[DanMcDan]

I have on my workbench, a Ep8 with 400 miles on it, you can see a water line from where water has leaked in!!!

This motor hasn’t been pressure washed, just been ridden through one British winter.

 

[steve_sordy]

I have on my workbench, a Ep8 with 400 miles on it, you can see a water line from where water has leaked in!!!

This motor hasn’t been pressure washed, just been ridden through one British winter.

View attachment 153162

That looks like an assembly problem, or put it another way, a Quality Control problem. Why else should so many people have zero problems with their EP8s.
Bad luck Dan.

With only 400 miles on it, have you ruined your potential for a warranty claim by opening it up?

 

[Amber Valley Guy]

I have on my workbench, a Ep8 with 400 miles on it, you can see a water line from where water has leaked in!!!

This motor hasn’t been pressure washed, just been ridden through one British winter.

View attachment 153162

Has it been ridden hard through streams? Or maybe transported externally on a bike carrier whilst raining hard....at 70mph+? Cos that doesn't look like a 'oops it just happened somehow' problem.

 

[Husky430]

There's a reason I call these motors SHITmano.
My E8000 motors torque sensor went after around 3500km, just stopped dead overnight.
Mates E8000 with similar mileage was making horrendous internal noises after 2 years, just out of warranty. So we pulled it apart and it was coming from the actual drive motor part, behind a printed circuit board that you would have to destroy to remove to get at the motor!
We carefully removed the torque sensor from his motor and transplanted it into my old motor and it's still going now after 2 years. Torque sensors seem to be an early problem with them, both motors were 2019 models.
I had to buy a replacement motor at around $2000 Aust, and that played up no end after one rainy ride, so sold it on after I managed to dry it out.
Have had a Bosch powered bike for around 2 1/2 years now and must say it's been a much better experience.
Just my 2 cents worth.