Overall Take on How Pole Handled Things?

d3ftone

d3ftone

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I've had a number of Pole bikes in the past. E and non-E. They were great. Looks like Pole might be gearing up to make a new bike with the Maxon Air S motor. I might be interested but wanted to get an idea of how they handled the swingarm issue and bankruptcy. I didn't pay much attention to what all went down. What do y'all think? Would you ever buy another Pole? Wouldn't touch 'em with a 10 ft pole? How do I make a poll for this? Okay enough puns.
 
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I would be interested to hear how many lost money.
I nearly lost £5500 and only got a refund after involving the consumer ombudsman after an initial promised refund never materialised and they ignored all emails. They went under 3 weeks later.
The lies were off the scale. A bike promised within 3 weeks of order and still not delivered 5 months later. The requirement to pay in full to ensure your build slot was a last ditch attempt at a cash grab.
I didn't use a credit card. I will do for everything in the future.
However im now of the mindset of never paying a deposit or pre ordering. I don't need anything that badly. I'll only ever walk into a shop, pay and walk out with goods from now on.
So no, i would never ever try to buy another pole. Oh and they kicked me out the fb group so i wasn't able to hear other people take on it. I didn't even slag them off!
 
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d3ftone said:
I've had a number of Pole bikes in the past. E and non-E. They were great. Looks like Pole might be gearing up to make a new bike with the Maxon Air S motor. I might be interested but wanted to get an idea of how they handled the swingarm issue and bankruptcy. I didn't pay much attention to what all went down. What do y'all think? Would you ever buy another Pole? Wouldn't touch 'em with a 10 ft pole? How do I make a poll for this? Okay enough puns.
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No bankruptcy is handled well from equity investor and creditor standpoints, and if you were caught up in it, no amount of equivocation will make a difference to those affected.

For the product investors, that is, those who have bought bikes from bands that have since collapsed, there is usually no recourse. You are stuck with your bike and just hope that you can get more life out of it before you toss it.

What’s interesting here is that the Pole is not dead and buried. Somehow Leo managed to keep the IP, his brand, and website still around and he’s supporting existing bike owners with various components and upgrades. So if you own a Pole and like the bike, this can only be seen more favorable than otherwise.

That said, Pole re-entering the market without rebranding and with a new bike is going to be a harder climb. I’m not sure how successful he will be at reinventing the Pole brand to overcome the heavy tarnish of bankruptcy. There would need to be a business model where purchasers are guaranteed to get their bikes. Things like non-refundable deposits and long delivery times are non-starters. If he keeps his growth ambitions small, the Pole diehards might keep things going long enough to build some brand goodwill over time.

Pole has made some very good bikes over the years and his design progressions have continuously improved. I currently have a Sonni and had a Voima, and feel this bike is a clear improvement over its predecessor. I do welcome anything new Leo comes up with next. As I said in a related post: “What Leo makes of it we will see, but I'd rather have him still in the industry than out of it.”
 
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cozzy said:
I would be interested to hear how many lost money.
I nearly lost £5500 and only got a refund after involving the consumer ombudsman after an initial promised refund never materialised and they ignored all emails. They went under 3 weeks later.
The lies were off the scale. A bike promised within 3 weeks of order and still not delivered 5 months later. The requirement to pay in full to ensure your build slot was a last ditch attempt at a cash grab.
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So lucky! I have been double checking the limitations of credit card recourse and my card has a time limit of 6 months. Also my new purchase insurance for theft, damage is a paltry 1500.00
 
I'd only buy one if: 1) it was a cf frame made in Tiawan or the like so it wouldn't break all of the time while weighing 13#s for a frame only, 2) it offered something cutting edge again, 3) I could pay by CC and have delivery in less than 6 weeks, 4) frame/ motor only option.

But even with that, there are some real warranty concerns.

I think if they built a full power e-bike with the new Maxon motor & a 600w battery and it genuinely weighed <45#s build out, that would make for a compelling product. The 400w battery option is a non-starter imo.

Leo could end up with full power e-bikes that weigh within 7#s of what his previous machined behemoths weighed, which could be pretty amazing.
 
As long as Leo is at the helm, there is no hope for a different approach imo. He is too much of an opinionated mad scientist type. Always right, always knows best, prepared to argue endlessly with the whole world. Too much gaslighting, unfulfilled promises and bad business decisions in the past to trust him again. Honestly it's a miracle that he was able to remain in ownership of the brand and IP considering what he did to customers and partners.

Under new leadership and with Leo as a product or development manager - maybe.
 
Interessting Discussion for an Owner of a Voima. I still love it and never had any Issues. But as Svarun said, I think Leo may be a good Developer, but not Businessman. It's a onemanshow yet and to be honest, I would not order a new Bike under this circumstances.
 
Svarun said:
As long as Leo is at the helm, there is no hope for a different approach imo. He is too much of an opinionated mad scientist type. Always right, always knows best, prepared to argue endlessly with the whole world. Too much gaslighting, unfulfilled promises and bad business decisions in the past to trust him again. Honestly it's a miracle that he was able to remain in ownership of the brand and IP considering what he did to customers and partners.

Under new leadership and with Leo as a product or development manager - maybe.
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My thoughts exactly.

Though there's no chance of me buying another Pole. That ship has been Poleverised
 
Suns_PSD said:
I'd only buy one if: 1) it was a cf frame made in Tiawan or the like so it wouldn't break all of the time while weighing 13#s for a frame only, 2) it offered something cutting edge again, 3) I could pay by CC and have delivery in less than 6 weeks, 4) frame/ motor only option.

But even with that, there are some real warranty concerns.

I think if they built a full power e-bike with the new Maxon motor & a 600w battery and it genuinely weighed <45#s build out, that would make for a compelling product. The 400w battery option is a non-starter imo.

Leo could end up with full power e-bikes that weigh within 7#s of what his previous machined behemoths weighed, which could be pretty amazing.
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I agree that Leo will have to do things differently from a product standpoint if he has any chance of rising from the ashes. That Maxon Dirtlab bike he was test riding is really really light for its travel and if a bike like that can be “Poleified” from a geometry and suspension design perspective, I think it could have legs.

I basically asserted on his FB group (God know’s why I gave up finally succumbed to Meta) that the bike would have be designed around the 600WH battery, which itself is light on details. What I do know is that the batteries aren’t designed (at least currently) to be swappable as dongles are physically attached (all the more reason to stick with the bigger battery). The battery will be chubbier rather than longer (like what Bosch did versus what DGI did), so the down-tube won’t be as svelte as DJI rigs, but OTOH the bike will have a lower COG, which riders are starting to lament higher COGs on their Avinox steeds with their super long batteries.

Regarding frame manufacture, I can’t see why Leo would continue in the full CNC vein other than him sticking with the familiar. If he did something else entirely, that would put some distance between what Pole became to signify (both good and bad) from aesthetics to weight to reliability. I would be surprised if he succumbs to offshore carbon layering that pretty much everyone else is doing (despite advantages or cost, weight, scalability, and repairability). What I could see is him taking on an Athertonian approach: something like titanium 3d printing at the vertices, combined with premade carbon tubing lengths that can be cut to length to suit his design eccentricities. This would provide a tighter level of design-to-production that he would probably prefer, yet provide a lighter platform than we he previously took on with fully CNC frames. The disadvantage would be scalability somewhat, but that shouldn’t be his objective if he wants to start to resurrect his brand (that’s part of what got him in trouble in the first place).
 
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d3ftone said:
I've had a number of Pole bikes in the past. E and non-E. They were great. Looks like Pole might be gearing up to make a new bike with the Maxon Air S motor. I might be interested but wanted to get an idea of how they handled the swingarm issue and bankruptcy. I didn't pay much attention to what all went down. What do y'all think? Would you ever buy another Pole? Wouldn't touch 'em with a 10 ft pole? How do I make a poll for this? Okay enough puns.
Click to expand...
High Rock Ruti

I have 2023 Voima. The only mistake I made is sizing to large, too big! The frame in gold is stunning. Not a fan of Rockshox, but great suspension, love the Bosch gen 4. The bike is a monster handles, the best climbing bike I've ever ridden, handles fantastically, but the size scares me, always feel like I'm riding on the "second floor".

I don't know much about Leo, but he's an innovator for sure.

I'd buy another under the right circumstances, and not at all sorry I own one now

Warm Regards Ruti
 
Have a broken Voima in my garage, first it was the swing arm (thankfully replaced under warranty weeks before bankruptcy) and then it was the frame where the head tube joined the down tube. There just isn’t enough horsepower behind the FEA/stress/longterm fatigue analysis going on leading to absurd failure rates.

Bike rode very well but that’s where the positives end. Anyone purchasing in the future absolutely will not have warranty support, regardless of commitments that are made.
 
Murphius said:
Have a broken Voima in my garage, first it was the swing arm (thankfully replaced under warranty weeks before bankruptcy) and then it was the frame where the head tube joined the down tube. There just isn’t enough horsepower behind the FEA/stress/longterm fatigue analysis going on leading to absurd failure rates.

Bike rode very well but that’s where the positives end. Anyone purchasing in the future absolutely will not have warranty support, regardless of commitments that are made.
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Yeah, and Leo made the same mistakes regarding testing releasing the replacement one piece swingarms. Threw them out into the market without long enough physical testing. FEA can only go so far. You need to physically test. Particularly when there's all sorts of loads coming from all sorts of directions. That can't easily be simulated in FEA.

Seems he hasn't learnt any lessons. He's still banging on about carrying on with Sonni which was a terrible idea and the part the reason of the downfall of the company.

I didn't end up loosing any cash but all the same it put a damper on my riding of that bike for about a yeah as I was reluctant to go full send on a collectors item and what's the point of having a 190mm bike if you can't send it too oblivion. Plus i didnt have the cash to sell it and upgrade. So I just had to keep riding the ticking time bomb.

Any way, I'm out of that bike now and back into full send on the E bike.
 
I still have my Voima and I’m very happy with it. It’s 47lbs of awesomeness and I love it! If the new bike is an MGU or an Avinox, I’d likely buy it. If it’s a Maxon with a 400w battery, then I’m out. I want more power or zero maintenance of an MGU and belt drive with long travel, or both. If I can’t have that, then I’ll wait for someone else to make it then. I cracked my drive side swing arm, but I fixed it and the fix is holding up great so far with about 1000 miles on the fix. I also have a spare swingarm just in case the fix fails. In the meantime, I’m still loving it!
 
One man literally managed to undermine the confidence anyone would have in the method of construction and then highlight what can go wrong when you trust in small single man businesses further the shitshow was broadcast on the www like a telenovela

Let’s see
 
cozzy said:
I would be interested to hear how many lost money.
I nearly lost £5500 and only got a refund after involving the consumer ombudsman after an initial promised refund never materialised and they ignored all emails. They went under 3 weeks later.
The lies were off the scale. A bike promised within 3 weeks of order and still not delivered 5 months later. The requirement to pay in full to ensure your build slot was a last ditch attempt at a cash grab.
I didn't use a credit card. I will do for everything in the future.
However im now of the mindset of never paying a deposit or pre ordering. I don't need anything that badly. I'll only ever walk into a shop, pay and walk out with goods from now on.
So no, i would never ever try to buy another pole. Oh and they kicked me out the fb group so i wasn't able to hear other people take on it. I didn't even slag them off!
Click to expand...
High Rock Ruti

My 2023 Pole has two cracked frame rear linkage components one of which is sold out, any suggestions?

Will contact the company very low mileage less than thousand.

Warm Regards Ruti
 
High Rock Ruti said:
High Rock Ruti

My 2023 Pole has two cracked frame rear linkage components one of which is sold out, any suggestions?

Will contact the company very low mileage less than thousand.

Warm Regards Ruti
Click to expand...
Hold your nose and join FB. Request invitation to the Pole FB groups. Hope for the best. If the rear linkages you are referring to are the swingarms, then the odds are that some more will be made. Anything else will be more grim.
 
I just wish he would restart the evo link frames. I loved mine and pretty much rode it into the ground. I would buy a new one again.
 
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