Orbea x Avinox Rumours

[action99]

ReStricted ;-)

 

[Celada13]

M2S RS What does RS stand for? Is it an Avinox disguised as a Bosch?

View attachment 185893

It is an Avinox M2S motor configured by Orbea with a fine-tuning and adjustment carried out by them and probably with the power limited to 750W.

 

[Fangs2k]

M2S RS What does RS stand for? Is it an Avinox disguised as a Bosch?

View attachment 185893

RS = Rider Synergy

Orbea’s name for their customisation on everything from motors to component control etc.

 

[action99]

Pure guess is that it could be just this:

Avinox M2S has been officially certified by the UCI and added to its list of approved e-bike motors. The Avinox M2S Race750 variant is designed to comply with UCI regulations by limiting maximum peak power to 750W across all modes, helping ensure fair competition for all athletes. At this stage, we are providing M2S Race750 motor covers and M2S Race750 firmware to OEM partners.

 

[Powerslider]

I don’t think they are, they’re pointing at the tanks parked on their lawn and asking whether they should be there.

Beat Bosch up for what they’re actually selling by all means, but not for what they aren’t nor for industry lobbying that goes on everywhere and is a normal part of ‘big business’.

Here’s that arguing position again where people start with saying something is not happening; and then say it’s normal that it is happening.

 

[Fangs2k]

Here’s that arguing position again where people start with saying something is not happening; and then say it’s normal that it is happening.

If you read again, I was replying that Bosch aren’t “dictating to the entire market what riders are allowed to have and what they aren't”.

They are sharing their views on e-bike power and regulation, which obviously isn’t the same thing.

Perhaps ask the question before you reach for the ‘crap post’ emoji?

 

[crisillo]

Here’s that arguing position again where people start with saying something is not happening; and then say it’s normal that it is happening.

at least in Germany (Bosch’s local market) organizations like DiMB have to keep pushing back for trail access (not just for ebikes, see Mountain Bike Access Preserved in NRW Forestry Law Debate-Germany — IMBA Europe ). The Bosch Ebike CEO sits on the board of the ZIV (Zweirad-Industrie-Verband) So they do play a role in policy-making, but I personally think it is more to preserve access (and correspondingly their business) Since raising the power bar could raise the Pedelec (class 1-ish) requirements (insurance, etc) and therefore impact sales for them in the end

 

[Frankyspec]

Official launch should be on the 18th June and also the website should be open… from the local lbs…

 

[Lumassa]

I also have that date, according to my
LBS

 

[oettam20]

M2S RS What does RS stand for? Is it an Avinox disguised as a Bosch?

View attachment 185893

The price, with these components, seems not competitive compared to the the Zendit

 

[dirtsufer]

Has anyone in the States been able to pre-order a bike or are they only accepting pre-orders in Europe? Need to talk with the Orbea dealer here but they are an hour away so figured I ask here first.

 

[Powerslider]

So [Bosch does] play a role in policy-making, but I personally think it is more to preserve access (and correspondingly their business) Since raising the power bar could raise the Pedelec requirements (insurance, etc) and therefore impact sales for them in the end

[My emphasis added above]

This has been discussed ad nauseam, but I believe the best way to preserve access is to broaden the user base as much as possible. It seems logical to me; that limiting power and/or speed is in opposition to the goal of increasing new user adoption. That is why I believe that ironically, the limits many people think will help, will actually hurt the cause.

 

[Suns_PSD]

[My emphasis added above]

This has been discussed ad nauseam, but I believe the best way to preserve access is to broaden the user base as much as possible. It seems logical to me; that limiting power and/or speed is in opposition to the goal of increasing new user adoption. That is why I believe that ironically, the limits many people think will help, will actually hurt the cause.

Differing opinions are what makes the world go around, but from where I sit, I think it's an absurd idea that we need 1500 watts/ 28 mph (or even more) to attract people to e-biking.

Why not 3000 watts/ 45 mpg to attract even more in that case? Legislators kindly granted e-bike users' access to non-motorized trails because they recognized up to a certain power level and speed, they were similar enough to bikes that the motor didn't alter the sport or the safety of other trail users at its core. That's why a line was drawn limiting max assist speed and power levels.

They are supposed to be bikes, let's be clear. It's not MX. And I think the moderate pace through nature is part of the sport's core appeal to a wide demographic.

 

[action99]

Differing opinions are what makes the world go around, but from where I sit, I think it's an absurd idea that we need 1500 watts/ 28 mph (or even more) to attract people to e-biking.

Why not 3000 watts/ 45 mpg to attract even more in that case? Legislators kindly granted e-bike users' access to non-motorized trails because they recognized up to a certain power level and speed, they were similar enough to bikes that the motor didn't alter the sport or the safety of other trail users at its core. That's why a line was drawn limiting max assist speed and power levels.

They are supposed to be bikes, let's be clear. It's not MX. And I think the moderate pace through nature is part of the sport's core appeal to a wide demographic.

Are you also coming down moderately paced?

If it is a safety issue, why would you let a bike with no motor going down at 30-40 mph but not let somebody go up at 10mph? Guess where the real danger is.....

If is for damage on the trail, again is the one going up at 10 or the one going down at 30-40 and hard breaking causing the damage....

 

[crisillo]

[My emphasis added above]

This has been discussed ad nauseam, but I believe the best way to preserve access is to broaden the user base as much as possible. It seems logical to me; that limiting power and/or speed is in opposition to the goal of increasing new user adoption. That is why I believe that ironically, the limits many people think will help, will actually hurt the cause.

yes, but bikers are not the only trail users. There are other user groups like hikers that lobby hard against MTBs on general trails and high power ebikes are yet another argument to be leveraged against us.

I agree with you that it shouldn’t play a role, but unfortunately it does. Because decision-makers are rarely avid (e-)bikers that can see the nuance in these differences

 

[Powerslider]

Differing opinions are what makes the world go around, but from where I sit, I think it's an absurd idea that we need 1500 watts/ 28 mph (or even more) to attract people to e-biking.

My position is that speed and power limits would negatively impact the rate new user adoption. I contend such a move would stifle enthusiasm for the sport for new, and existing users. Your comment above is saying something subtly different though.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Are you also coming down moderately paced?

If it is a safety issue, why would you let a bike with no motor going down at 30-40 mph but not let somebody go up at 10mph? Guess where the real danger is.....

If is for damage on the trail, again is the one going up at 10 or the one going down at 30-40 and hard breaking causing the damage....

That's a Red Herring. You are attempting to distract from the reality that the Avinox is operating at Class 2+ power levels and speeds, by using a 'whataboutism', that may or may not be a problem on it's own but is in fact a different topic.

You know, and I know, that hikers/ equestrians are rarely on the steep DH trails. And the analog bikers, are going the same speed so that's not important either.

Trail conflicts arises on flattish or slightly inclined terrain where e-bikes can maintain much higher speeds than other trail users.

Instead of playing 'whataboutism', contact your legislatures and attempt to increase what are right now the current established Class 1 limits since you disagree with the current Class 1 limits. Don't attack me for descending speed or whatever else in your attempted defense in running what is in fact considered a motorcycle (once again, not my rules), on non-motorized trails.

 

[Powerslider]

yes, but bikers are not the only trail users. There are other user groups like hikers that lobby hard against MTBs on general trails and high power ebikes are yet another argument to be leveraged against us.

I agree with you that it shouldn’t play a role, but unfortunately it does. Because decision-makers are rarely avid (e-)bikers that can see the nuance in these differences

I don’t disagree with you. That’s why I believe the best way to preserve access is to broaden the user base a much as possible; as quickly as possible. We need allies. We need to get entrenched so we have as much political capital as possible.

I was in this fight in the 90s when it was hikers against bikes. Eventually MTB became so popular we couldn’t be ignored. Same playbook should be followed now.

 

[Powerslider]

That's a Red Herring. You are attempting to distract from the reality that the Avinox is operating at Class 2+ power levels and speeds, by using a 'whataboutism', that may or may not be a problem on it's own but is in fact a different topic.

You know, and I know, that hikers/ equestrians are rarely on the steep DH trails. And the analog bikers, are going the same speed so that's not important either.

Trail conflicts arises on flattish or slightly inclined terrain where e-bikes can maintain much higher speeds than other trail users.

Instead of playing 'whataboutism', contact your legislatures and attempt to increase what are right now the current established Class 1 limits since you disagree with the current Class 1 limits. Don't attack me for descending speed or whatever else in your attempted defense in running what is in fact considered a motorcycle (once again, not my rules), on non-motorized trails.

I don’t think anyone can legitimately say speed is a problem uphill and on flat ground but not downhill. For example, Mine trail is a downhill at Hawes and is always loaded with hikers. Either speed is a problem or it’s not.

 

[action99]

That's a Red Herring. You are attempting to distract from the reality that the Avinox is operating at Class 2+ power levels and speeds, by using a 'whataboutism', that may or may not be a problem on it's own but is in fact a different topic.

You know, and I know, that hikers/ equestrians are rarely on the steep DH trails. And the analog bikers, are going the same speed so that's not important either.

Trail conflicts arises on flattish or slightly inclined terrain where e-bikes can maintain much higher speeds than other trail users.

Instead of playing 'whataboutism', contact your legislatures and attempt to increase what are right now the current established Class 1 limits since you disagree with the current Class 1 limits. Don't attack me for descending speed or whatever else in your attempted defense in running what is in fact considered a motorcycle (once again, not my rules), on non-motorized trails.

Classic US centric view of the world.

We don't have the same classification so either all the current EMTB motors are legal or they are all illegal (250w power)
We don't have Horses on mountain trails (they physically don't fit), btw I own 3 horses so I know.
We have a 25km/h restriction here, your funny horse example make me lough as they can easily sustain 35km/h and afaik they don't have breaks and are much more unpredictable than bikes.
We have most of the hikers here that climb better than a bike, are you real in claiming that hikers don't go on steep trails? It is one of the biggest sports and is called mountaineering, for your info the M on MTB stand for Mountain and not F for Flat)

Anyway we are derailing this thread is about a potential great bike.