Levo Gen 2 New (to me) bike day!

[Dicko70]

Just picked up an immaculate, low mileage Levo Carbon Expert, well happy! Want to upgrade a few parts though and wanted advice:
1. SRAM Code R brakes are shocking! Had them adjusted, tried new pads, still very poor, so probably going to swap them out. Had SLX on my hardtail Levo, which were good, but looking at XTs or similar…any views?
2. Want to swap to a 36T chainring…do I really need to stay with steel?
thanks in advance.

 

[Paulquattro]

Happy new bike day

 

[Ark]

Code R brakes aren't ebike speciifc according to google so might be why they seem bad.
I've got Sram Guide RE on my ebike and the stopping power for my fat ass over 100kg is really good, can easy lock the wheels on concrete if I wanted too.

Idk how the modulation compares to other brakes but for me they seem perfectly fine.

Chainring honestly no idea, but I'd imagine the rings for your bike are specific to your motor anyway so regardless of the material they should be designed to withstand the power.
Ideally you should be trying to maintain over 60 cadence though and don't pull of in some ridiculous gear if you want your motor to love you and last

 

[Bndit]

Sram brakes don't feel so good after Shimano, just swap them to SLX or XT if you liked SLX. There isn't so big difference between SLX and XT, I have both on my bikes. Shimano brakes are also much easier to bleed than Srams

 

[irie]

I have 6120 calipers

Sram brakes don't feel so good after Shimano, just swap them to SLX or XT if you liked SLX. There isn't so big difference between SLX and XT, I have both on my bikes. Shimano brakes are also much easier to bleed than Srams

Don't think there's much (if any) performance difference between Shimano MT520/M6120 up to XTR calipers so I have M6120 calipers because they were available. Paired them with M6100 levers and Swissstop Catalyst Pro 220mm rotors. Perfect single finger braking.

 

[Rod B.]

Just picked up an immaculate, low mileage Levo Carbon Expert, well happy! Want to upgrade a few parts though and wanted advice:
1. SRAM Code R brakes are shocking! Had them adjusted, tried new pads, still very poor, so probably going to swap them out. Had SLX on my hardtail Levo, which were good, but looking at XTs or similar…any views?
2. Want to swap to a 36T chainring…do I really need to stay with steel?
thanks in advance. View attachment 111456

Dicko70,

That's a beautiful ride! I own a Levo Carbon Comp and love the bike, it's such a capable ride.

Both SRAM and Shimano brakes systems work equally well. To work well, they have to be maintained and set up correctly with a few minor modifications.

The SRAM Code R brakes are a really good four piston brake system. My only complaint with the Code R system is the semi floppy brake lever and lack of a bite point adjustment. The Code RSC uses the same four piston brake caliper as the Code R, however the RSC brake lever has a bite point adjustment and the lever pivots upon a set of ball bearings. This gives the lever a firm and solid feel. On the other hand, the SRAM Code R brake lever uses a bushing upon which to pivot. Unlike the RSC's ball bearing pivot, the R's bushing pivot causes the brake lever to feel somewhat loose with play.

Any brake system, whether Shimano, SRAM, Magura, TRP, etc., will suffer poor performance if the system is not maintained.

SRAM Code brakes use DOT 5.1 brake fluid. All DOT automotive brake fluids are hygroscopic, meaning the brake fluid will absorb moisture in the air. This includes the DOT fluid in a bike's brake lever, brake hose and caliper.

DOT 5.1 brake fluid when new is clear. As the fluid gradually retains moisture from the air and dirt making it's way past the brake piston seals, the fluid will begin to darken. Eventually the fluid will turn black if not flushed and new fluid added. I make it a habit to change the fluid in my SRAM Code brakes once a year.

Because your bike is used, and you maybe do not know the bike's maintenance history, I would suggest flushing out the old brake fluid and adding new fluid. This will give you a good base of reference for future maintenance. Britain may be incredibly dry and rarely does it rain, however.....there's still that odd bit of moisture trying to get at the DOT 5.1 fluid.

Do your lever's feel firm when you pull them? If not, this could indicate some air is in the system. A good flush and bleed will alleviate a spongy lever.

Does it take a long lever pull to reach the bite point upon which the brake pads make contact with the rotor? If it does, this could indicate air in the system, worn pads and or, brake rotors which have been worn past the minimum thickness. eBikes are heavy and it doesn't take much to wear out a brake rotor.

Other than SRAM using DOT 5.1 brake fluid and Shimano using a mineral oil brake fluid, both systems operate exactly the same. Both systems require occasional caliper maintenance to avoid sticking caliper pistons.

Because your bike is used, I would suggest giving each the four pistons on your Code R caliper a good cleaning. This will insure they are not sticking and you are getting the most performance out of your calipers. A sticking caliper piston will cause uneven brake pad wear and also lower the amount of braking pressure you can apply to the brake pads.

Prior to my Levo, I owned an Orbea Rise with Shimano brakes. I did a three part technical series in the Orbea Forum on Shimano brake maintenance and modification. The three parts series discusses brake pad wear, sticking pistons, cleaning the caliper, inspecting rotors for wear and general modifications, i.e. increasing brake rotor size. In each article you could easily substitute the word SRAM in place of Shimano. If you have time, give the articles a read.

Part # 1: Shimano Brake System Service

This will be a three part technical article discussing Shimano braking system components, how to service your Shimano brakes and brake system modification on your Rise. Part # 1 will discuss basic maintenance on your Shimano brakes. Part # 2 will discuss brake modifications to your Orbea...

www.emtbforums.com

PART # 2: SHIMANO BRAKE SYSTEM – Orbea Rise Brake System Modification

This technical article is the second installment in a two part series on Shimano brake systems. Refer to “Part # 1: Shimano Brake System Service”, for information on bleeding and servicing Shimano brakes and brake pad compounds...

www.emtbforums.com

Part # 3: Shimano Brake System Service

Let's face it, the Levo won't be winning any prizes for being the lightest eBike out there. Add the weight of a middle aged rider, his or her ride pack and you quickly arrive at a lot of weight. eBikes deserve a bit more braking performance due to this weight.

In regards to enhancing the Code R's braking performance, I would suggest three things:

1) If you have not done so, I would suggest changing your front and rear brake rotors to 220mm, or at the very least ensure your bike has a 220mm rotor on the front and a 200mm rotor on the rear. Increasing brake rotor size is the quickest and cheapest way to increase brake performance.

2) I see on your Levo that you are running SRAM Centerline brake rotors. I would suggest swapping out your Centerline rotors with the new SRAM H2 rotor. I installed SRAM H2 rotors on my Levo and absolutely love them. I weigh 192 pounds and run a 220mm on the front and a 200mm on the rear.

SRAM Centerline rotors have a starting thickness of 1.8mm and are recommended for replacement at 1.5mm. That's not a lot of room for wear. SRAM recently introduced the H2 brake rotor which are better suited for eBikes. The H2 rotor has a starting thickness of 2mm. A 2mm brake rotor will promote a more firm brake lever and resist heating/brake fade better. It's important to note that a Code R brake lever only has a set amount of brake fluid it can advance per lever squeeze. The thicker the rotor, the less squeeze required for the brake pads to make contact with the rotor.

3) Brake pad compound has a significant impact on braking performance. Because of an eBike's weight, it is easily capable of generating a lot of heat at the rotor on long downhill trail segments or short, technical and steep downhill segments. Heat leads to brake fade and or a reduction in braking performance. Heat is the enemy.

Organic braking compounds are quiet when exposed to moisture and offer better modulation over metallic pads. However, organic pads suffer the most from heat and brake fade. Metallic brake compounds suffer less from brake fade, but can be noisy and annoying as hell when wet.

There's a company called MTX Braking which is located in the United States. MTX makes a high performance Ceramic and Kevlar brake pad for mountain bikes. I used to run metallic pads on my Shimano and SRAM brake systems. I came across a review in regards to MTX brake pads and I decided to try them out.

Home - MTX Braking Braking Components for the MTB Industry

Braking components for the mountain bike, road bike and cycling industry. We manufacture mtb brake rotors, ceramic and traditional brake pads

mtxbraking.com

NSMB.com - OEM Alternative Brake Pads : One month later

Three after-market disc brake pads subjected to poor braking surfaces and steep inclines and compared to original equipment...

nsmb.com

MTX brake pads offered a noticeable improvement in brake performance, lever modulation and resistance to brake fade. I use MTX "Red Label" brake pads and 100% recommend them. I will no longer run anything else on my bikes.

The "Red Label Race" series offers stellar modulation, no brake fade and are mostly quiet when exposed to a lot of water. Those using Shimano brakes and you desire a bit more modulation instead of that instant on that Shimano brakes provide should seriously consider MTX Red Label Race pads. Red Label pads don't last as long as the Gold Series pads, however modulation is better with the red label series.

The "Gold Label HD" series of pads offers longevity and a higher resistance to brake fade. I tried a set of gold lable pads and can honestly say I never wore the suckers out. The harder compound means modulation suffers a bit. I prefer modulation over longevity and switched to the Red Label Race Series.

I hope you find this post useful.

be safe,
Rod

 

[Andy__C]

Thats a beautiful bike @Dicko70 .... probably still the best colour scheme the Levo has had IMO. (I have the same bike! No plans to change it).

What a post @Rod B. !! Learned a few things there and might take a look at those H2 rotors.


I'm a bit cheap/tight and only change things when they break... I generally learn to adapt/make do with whatever is on the bike. I've generally not has much issue with the SRAM codes... pull the lever, the bike stops. Pull it a little less... it brakes a little less kinda thing. Have Shimano on my Cannondale hard tail... they are a bit different but still stop the bike when you pull the lever.

I would define get the brakes bled and some new pads in there - the Code-Rs should be stopping you (I'm about 95kg kitted..... maybe 100kg when it's raining and Christmas time)

They, like SRAMs are. PITA to bleed and also to get the pistons back in when you change the pads. It's always a faff each time I change pads.

Other than that the only issue I have had with '19 levo not of my own doing/crashing was the TCU going this month. Its had an absolute mudding and soaking this winter - more than I can remember. The bike is Still on the same original motor, original bearings (wheel bearings have been changed).

Enjoy the bike!

 

[Dicko70]

@Rod B. , @Andy__C , thanks for the responses, very informative.
I’ve had the brakes bled and also had new pads installed but they still don’t feel so good. There’s a long lever pull before theres any impact and they just don’t inspire confidence, which is is actually making me slower!
I think I’m just going to bite the bullet and buy some new brakes, I’ve never had any issues with Shimano’s and so that’s where my head is looking.
I may look to swap rotors out too and will have a look at thicker rotors too.
Really appreciate all the responses guys!

 

[James_C]

have you checked your pistons arent gummed up and not moving properly? this really effects braking performance.

 

[DaveG01]

Code R brakes aren't ebike speciifc according to google so might be why they seem bad.
I've got Sram Guide RE on my ebike and the stopping power for my fat ass over 100kg is really good, can easy lock the wheels on concrete if I wanted too.

Idk how the modulation compares to other brakes but for me they seem perfectly fine.

Chainring honestly no idea, but I'd imagine the rings for your bike are specific to your motor anyway so regardless of the material they should be designed to withstand the power.
Ideally you should be trying to maintain over 60 cadence though and don't pull of in some ridiculous gear if you want your motor to love you and last

E bike specific?? The only thing different will be the weight of the bike and not every rider is lightweight, so whats the difference between a heavy rider on a analogue and a light rider on a EEEEb, not much

Also have those H2 rotors on two of my bikes, they help a little

I have Codes and also Guide RE, the codes are better. The Guide REs are old style Code calipers with XC Guide levers and a bit of marketing 'E Bike Specific' I run codes on two bikes (1 E) Hope V4s on my SC Nomad and Guide RE's on my hardtail

 

[MOTO13]

You don't need ebike specific brakes. That's a complete load of shit. If that were the case, brakes would be sold based upon bike and rider total weight. Replace the pads, bleed the brakes, you'll be fine. If you just want to upgrade, go for it. Never a bad idea to have better brakes, that's for sure.

GREAT looking bike. Love the color. Congrats!!!

 

[Paulquattro]

I have 6120 calipers
Don't think there's much (if any) performance difference between Shimano MT520/M6120 up to XTR calipers so I have M6120 calipers because they were available. Paired them with M6100 levers and Swissstop Catalyst Pro 220mm floating rotors. Perfect single finger braking.

These Swisstop rotors
where did you get the floating ones i can only find riveted one ?

 

[Rod B.]

@Rod B. , @Andy__C , thanks for the responses, very informative.
I’ve had the brakes bled and also had new pads installed but they still don’t feel so good. There’s a long lever pull before theres any impact and they just don’t inspire confidence, which is is actually making me slower!
I think I’m just going to bite the bullet and buy some new brakes, I’ve never had any issues with Shimano’s and so that’s where my head is looking.
I may look to swap rotors out too and will have a look at thicker rotors too.
Really appreciate all the responses guys!

Dicko70,

There isn't a good or bad choice here. Shimano makes a good brake, so does SRAM.

If you are getting a lot of lever pull, this typically means there is air in the system. I know you said the brakes were bled and new pads installed. I'm guessing that the bleed process your mechanic performed wasn't up to standards.

As Andy mentioned, SRAM brakes can at times be a little bit fiddly to set up properly. Especially used SRAM brakes. With new pads installed, your brake lever should be firm and the brake pad bite point should occur quickly with minimal lever throw. if it isn't doing this, it's either because there's air in the system or the brake rotor has worn down to the 1.5 minimum thickness tolerance. I'm betting the brake bleed wasn't done properly.

I would suggest you do several things before you plunk down a lot of beer money for a new Shimano brake set. Give the recommendations a try at least it'll be entertaining.....

1. A sticking caliper piston can cause excessive lever throw.
Remove the caliper from it's mount and remove the new brake pads. Use isopropyl alcohol and Q-tips to clean all around the pistons. Remove all the grime you can see. Be extra cautious not to over extend the pistons out of their bores. This is bad JU JU, and you'll have to re-bleed the whole brake system if a piston pops out. When your done cleaning the pistons, take a clean Q-Tip and dip it in some DOT 5.1 brake fluid. Work the Q-Tip around each piston. The goal is to lubricate the piston seal area. Next, begin cycling the brake lever. Keep an eye on all four pistons as you do this. You want to barely squeeze the brake lever. Do this until all the pistons move freely and they can be pushed fully back into their bores. When you begin the process, you'll usually find one of two pistons that will be stuck. Lastly, use alcohol to remove all traces of brake fluid from around the caliper piston area. The caliper needs to be extremely clean. You don't want the fluid to contaminate the brake pads or attract dirt.

Note: There are people online who sale 3D printed piston exposure spacer blocks for both SRAM or Shimano. The block allows you to cycle a single piston out for cleaning. While doing so, the exposure block prevents the other three pistons from popping out of their bores. it's a really useful tool and inexpensive.

Top Loading Brake Bleed and Piston Exposure Blocks for Disc - Etsy Hong Kong

This Tools item by cmhPrintedDesigns has 22 favorites from Etsy shoppers. Ships from United States. Listed on Apr 4, 2023

www.etsy.com

2. Air in the brake system can cause excessive lever throw.
Perform a new brake bleed. This process is crucial. It takes time to do it right. 95% of the air can be removed quickly. It's the last 5% that takes patience to remove. If you do it right, the brake lever will be as hard as a whore's heart. Wahoo! There are numerous videos available online explaining the bleed process. You can pick up a SRAM bleed kit reasonably cheap on Amazon.

3. Check your rotor thickness. If the rotor is worn down to the 1.5mm minimum thickness, this will cause excessive throw in the brake lever. This is because the lever has to be pulled fairly long in order to force enough brake fluid into the caliper in order to extend the pistons out far enough for the pads to engage the rotor.

With your new brake pads installed, brake rotors within tolerance, and a good effective bleed, your SRAM Code brake levers will be firm.

Cheers,
Rod

 

[irie]

These Swisstop rotors
where did you get the floating ones i can only find riveted one ?

You're right, I thought they were floating but I was wrong, they're riveted. Have changed my post.