New Nicolai with Pinion gearbox announced

Onetime

Active member
Aug 10, 2022
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Cali
Same approach here - frame only, with the 960W battery, raw finish. I expect it to be silly expensive, though.

Rear hub is a standard 148x12mm setup, no proprietary sizes there. It is the Shimano HG type with which the Gates rear belt sprocket is compatible. Onyx Classic 148x12mm Singlespeed Boost would be my choice (well, in the dream-land).

More tech info here: 2024 SATURN 16 MGU Tech Sheet
Yeah, I would also get raw but with the 720 battery. I’d want to use my current wheelset, but it’s got a XD. I suppose I could swap it for an HG hub driver though.
 

slickrock

Active member
Aug 7, 2022
133
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SF Bay Area
Bummer it won’t be available in the US until the end of the year, do to the pinion battery not having US certification.
Pinion has entered the motor domain, complete with battery tech, controllers, firmware, etc. To me that's the big jump, especially for a small outfit like Pinion. They do know internal gears all right, but L-ion battery certification is steep in the States and well as a needed solid support network, all very capital intensive, and all of which will take time compared to other countries riding on the EU consortium.

It would be so much easier for Bosch to do us a solid and start sporting gears on their motors. They must be thinking about it, dabbling with internal geared hubs (3X3 in this case) and Gates setups, and they have no transmission legacy to protect like Shimano and SRAM. For those who can't wait, lot's of us must still wait.
 

irie

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May 2, 2022
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Pinion has entered the motor domain, complete with battery tech, controllers, firmware, etc. To me that's the big jump, especially for a small outfit like Pinion. They do know internal gears all right, but L-ion battery certification is steep in the States and well as a needed solid support network, all very capital intensive, and all of which will take time compared to other countries riding on the EU consortium.

It would be so much easier for Bosch to do us a solid and start sporting gears on their motors. They must be thinking about it, dabbling with internal geared hubs (3X3 in this case) and Gates setups, and they have no transmission legacy to protect like Shimano and SRAM. For those who can't wait, lot's of us must still wait.
Pinion might be a small outfit but is owned by Bombardier which certainly is not (turnover about $8 billion).
 

tooFATtoRIDE

Member
Sep 18, 2023
128
127
Zug - Switzerland
Every review i've watched never mentions how obviously loud the bike is.
Not speaking specifically about Aston MTB but I believe there is always some sort of behind the scenes type of relationship that might influence the words that are said. It is good for business :love:

I could also be totally wrong here and the noise issue has been rectified somehow.
 

Bomble

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Nov 11, 2018
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Yorkshire
Yeah it must be incredibly hard to slate a product someone has loaned you or flown you out to a launch etc. Bad for business too if you rely on the industry.
I understand all that, which is why I always take reviews with a pinch of salt.
 

slickrock

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Aug 7, 2022
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SF Bay Area
Pinion might be a small outfit but is owned by Bombardier which certainly is not (turnover about $8 billion).
Didn't realize this this development since 2022, so stand corrected. At least Pinion has a chance then if cash infusion could sustain over a product launch growth cycle needed to penetrate this new market. IGH and gearboxes still this day have been incredibly niche, whereas ebike motors are ubiquitous. Widespread adoption will mostly like come from the motor/battery side. Hopefully by a company with a $700 billion market cap.
 

tooFATtoRIDE

Member
Sep 18, 2023
128
127
Zug - Switzerland
On the topic of batteries, and please excuse my total lack of understanding, I wanted to ask this: are the batteries locked with the engine manufacturer? I.e. Bosch Gen 4 will only work with the Bosch battery?

What I mean here is whether, for example, a Bosch battery could work with the Pinion system? Or could a non-FIT battery work with the FIT system? For the purpose of this discussion let's assume that the shape and mounting/physical locking mechanism of the battery is irrelevant.
 

Shark58

Active member
Mar 5, 2023
196
135
Germany
: are the batteries locked with the engine manufacturer?
In general yes.
For some older motors there are 3rd party batteries available but not for any of the newer models.
Batteries on e-bikes use quite different specs by manufacturer - voltage is one spec that might differ. Also the BMS talks to the motor and therefore needs a compatible protocol. Bosch even uses non compatible batteries for different motor generations.
Last but not least the battery has to fit the frame.
 

tooFATtoRIDE

Member
Sep 18, 2023
128
127
Zug - Switzerland
In general yes.
For some older motors there are 3rd party batteries available but not for any of the newer models.
Batteries on e-bikes use quite different specs by manufacturer - voltage is one spec that might differ. Also the BMS talks to the motor and therefore needs a compatible protocol. Bosch even uses non compatible batteries for different motor generations.
Last but not least the battery has to fit the frame.
Damn....
 

Rob Rides EMTB

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Jan 14, 2018
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I have Nicolai Saturn 16 MGU order in and confirmed, build week 30 (end of July)

My build:

- Intend Flash 170/180mm fork
- MX Wheelset with Nicolai mutator
- Intend Hover shock
- Hope Tech4 V4 Brakes


Screenshot 2024-06-15 at 21.40.27.png
Screenshot 2024-06-15 at 21.43.12.png
 
Last edited:

Onetime

Active member
Aug 10, 2022
428
427
Cali
I have Nicolai Saturn 16 MGU order in and confirmed, build week 30 (end of July)

My build:

- Intend Flash 170/180mm fork
- MX Wheelset with Nicolai mutator
- Intend Hover shock
- Hope Tech4 V4 Brakes


View attachment 142245 View attachment 142246
That’s going to be a sick build. Can’t wait to hear how it performs with intend suspension. German frame, suspension, motor and battery too with Hope brakes, so sweet! I’m super jealous!
 

megabobra

Active member
Jul 24, 2022
239
262
Australia
Here's a quick look inside the Pinon MGU:


I wonder why they don't use more helical cut gears (sloped teeth rather than straight cut) inside these? There's one visible in the top right, but the remainder look to be straight. It'd certainly cut down on noise with helical!

1718520198348.png
 

MrSimmo

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Apr 24, 2020
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The Trail.
Here's a quick look inside the Pinon MGU:


I wonder why they don't use more helical cut gears (sloped teeth rather than straight cut) inside these? There's one visible in the top right, but the remainder look to be straight. It'd certainly cut down on noise with helical!

View attachment 142260
Strength maybe? - Just a guess, reminds me of when we used to build JDM big turbo cars back in the day, we used to swap out helical's for straight cut gearboxes to handle the increase in power we were delivering with the turbos.
 

megabobra

Active member
Jul 24, 2022
239
262
Australia
Strength maybe? - Just a guess, reminds me of when we used to build JDM big turbo cars back in the day, we used to swap out helical's for straight cut gearboxes to handle the increase in power we were delivering with the turbos.

Could be, but if the car before your swap used helical, surely they're strong enough for a bike? I wonder if it's just a means of reducing cost, whereby the straight cuts are cheaper to produce? Risky though when people are 'a bit' sensitive to motor noise ;)

The helical gears do introduce a side load in the direction of the gear shaft when they're running, could be that? Then perhaps they needed to use herringbone to avoid that!

1718522135811.png
 

MrSimmo

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
Apr 24, 2020
1,085
1,038
The Trail.
Could be, but if the car before your swap used helical, surely they're strong enough for a bike? I wonder if it's just a means of reducing cost, whereby the straight cuts are cheaper to produce? Risky though when people are 'a bit' sensitive to motor noise ;)

The helical gears do introduce a side load in the direction of the gear shaft when they're running, could be that? Then perhaps they needed to use herringbone to avoid that!

View attachment 142261
Thats a good point, there are more issues with side forces on helical gears iirc so that could be it. The cost factor as well as you say probably plays a part as well
 

Onetime

Active member
Aug 10, 2022
428
427
Cali
Strength maybe? - Just a guess, reminds me of when we used to build JDM big turbo cars back in the day, we used to swap out helical's for straight cut gearboxes to handle the increase in power we were delivering with the turbos.
It’s not for strength, it’s for more horse power. Straight cut gears are more efficient and make more power at the expense of noise.
 

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