Might a TQ HPR90 announcement be imminent (June at Eurobike)?

[Roaming50]

One thing that TQ needs to address is the battery throttle at 10%. Considering their batteries are not that large, losing full power (being throttled to 100w max) when you reach 58wh on the 580wh battery is a significant reduction in usable capacity.

I often plan my rides to finish at around 3-5% (powering up towards the end as my legs are getting weaker) but with the TQ that’s not possible.

While I love the quietness and feel of the motor - and having just spent ~$16k on two TQ bikes in the past couple months - I’ll admit this sours me on the brand somewhat.

 

[Bogdan_CH]

Most bike brands throttle down at 10%. However Bosch CX gen 5 stays consistent up to the end.

But my honest suggestion would be to avoid doing so. It prematurely wears the battery quite aggresively .

 

[Roaming50]

Most bike brands throttle down at 10%.

The 540wh battery in my Orbea Rise does not do this.

 

[CoolWetGrass]

Alex on his live podcast just announced the HPR90. So I called it, if he is accurate.

That live stream is pretty unwatchable in the cold light of day. Can anyone point to the minute in the video where it was ‘announced’. I skipped around a bit but there didn’t seem to be any announcements.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Most bike brands throttle down at 10%. However Bosch CX gen 5 stays consistent up to the end.

But my honest suggestion would be to avoid doing so. It prematurely wears the battery quite aggresively .

The 540wh battery in my Orbea Rise does not do this.

Pretty certain that both Bosch & Shimano hide that last 5% from you, only showing you your useable range, where-as other brands include the unusable part of the battery that you cannot use as part of your '%'.

So a Bosch 600wh powertube has an effective 600wh, where-as the TQ60 has an effective 522wh (at derate, 580wh *.90) and I knew that I wanted a 600wh useable battery or very close. I also searched out the CXR motor not for the 90 gram weight savings, but for the ceramic bearings that slightly improve efficiency by ~ 2-3%.

If the HP90 maintains the features of the HP60, leading weight, noise, efficiency & packaging, they really have something there.

I too don't care about more than 90ish nm so improving other performance factors up to that power level is ideal.

Like others, I went with full power not because I wanted all of that extra power, but because it hit my other performance criteria better than the TQ60 for a minimal weight gain.

 

[Crossbro]

That live stream is pretty unwatchable in the cold light of day. Can anyone point to the minute in the video where it was ‘announced’. I skipped around a bit but there didn’t seem to be any announcements.

Switch to minute 5:15. there it starts

 

[Emailsucks98]

One thing that TQ needs to address is the battery throttle at 10%.

I can't say if this is repeatable and don't want to abuse my batteries to prove it: I think mine provides some assistance (<Eco) if I stay in Eco mode when the battery gets below 15%. If I'm in trail or higher, it's hard done at 10%.

It's either that, or a firmware change happened at some point. I know for sure I have gotten assist below 10% but not consistently.

 

[Loamranger]

How reliable are TQ motors currently? I did read about some problems with the first model.

Thanks.

 

[Roaming50]

I can't say if this is repeatable and don't want to abuse my batteries to prove it: I think mine provides some assistance (<Eco) if I stay in Eco mode when the battery gets below 15%. If I'm in trail or higher, it's hard done at 10%.

It's either that, or a firmware change happened at some point. I know for sure I have gotten assist below 10% but not consistently.

Looking at the power output in the display, while the motor is supposedly 350w max, I've seen it output consistently over that and the Trek Ride app confirms a max of 399w for peak power. I've been told then when it throttles at 10% you only get a max of 100w, however again I have seen more but typically no more than ~125w. I feel the motor is happy to overshoot its power target and will then settle back to what it is supposed to be limited to.

I wouldn't mind it so much if it was closer to the eco setting (mine is set to 85% assist and 250w max with a mid level of start up assist) but the current throttle is really dead feeling.

 

[Larsey]

Hopefully Wireless/Bluetooth Remote.

 

[Str1fe]

Looking at the power output in the display, while the motor is supposedly 350w max, I've seen it output consistently over that and the Trek Ride app confirms a max of 399w for peak power. I've been told then when it throttles at 10% you only get a max of 100w, however again I have seen more but typically no more than ~125w. I feel the motor is happy to overshoot its power target and will then settle back to what it is supposed to be limited to.

I wouldn't mind it so much if it was closer to the eco setting (mine is set to 85% assist and 250w max with a mid level of start up assist) but the current throttle is really dead feeling.

I also saw that on my Propain. The hpr60 peak power is at 380/390 watts already, not 350.

 

[Mteam]

I also saw that on my Propain. The hpr60 peak power is at 380/390 watts already, not 350.

It was similar for the hpr50, the display showed it peaking at 315 to 320 watts not the 300 watts max that the motor was supposed to be limited to.

I have no idea whether those numbers are accurate.

With regard to limiting power in the last 10% of battery, all the tq batteries do this on the hpr50 and hpr60 motors (I presume the hpr40 also does this, but I haven't ridden one so can't confirm), except for the range extender battery which maintains full power until it dies. The Max motor power is limited to 100watts when battery state of charge <10%.

I find it pretty annoying, would like the option to turn it off and live with the consequences.

 

[DylanJM]

Limp mode should definitely be a selectable setting rather than an always on thing.

 

[irie]

Perhaps that^^^ 10% with a bigger battery, such as ~600Wh, that might come with a HPR90 would be less of a problem.

 

[Str1fe]

The smartest move from TQ, in my opinion, is not to launch a new motor right away.
Instead, they should implement OTA updates so people can update their bikes at home and potentially improve performance through software updates, like Bosch did with the SX motor, and the bosch SX really improved (a lot) after the update so it's possible.

 

[DylanJM]

The smartest move from TQ, in my opinion, is not to launch a new motor right away.
Instead, they should implement OTA updates so people can update their bikes at home and potentially improve performance through software updates, like Bosch did with the SX motor, and the bosch SX really improved (a lot) after the update so it's possible.

Depends on how much extra capacity the hardware can take. Not a huge amount changed from the HPR50 form factor so it may already be near it's limit.

I assume a HPR90 would be beefed up from a hardware perspective if it needs to handle 90NM/600W.

 

[Str1fe]

If they boost the hpr60 by OTA update it won't really makes sense to launch a HPR90. Let see at the Eurobike next week...

 

[Suns_PSD]

Depends on how much extra capacity the hardware can take. Not a huge amount changed from the HPR50 form factor so it may already be near it's limit.

I assume a HPR90 would be beefed up from a hardware perspective if it needs to handle 90NM/600W.

Would be amazing however if they maintained the same form factor or thereabouts but reached into full power territory. It would then be the perfect motor system imo and we could have 45# Enduro e-bikes. I mean, look what Avinox did with the M2.

 

[Crossbro]

Propain is currently offering the large TQ battery (580Wh) with a discount. Maybe a hint that there will be an new (larger) battery for new motor.
Only speculation, but could be.

 

[Str1fe]

The 580Wh battery was already discounted a few weeks (or months) ago. Bike companies no longer want to hold large inventories, so they're offering discounts to move stock more quickly.

 

[Trek-Rail-eBike]

My son has said he wants a much lighter eMTB for his next bike, when he out grows his Trek Rail 5 (25Kg).

Feels like a TQ90 motor, with a ~600Wh (ish) battery with bike builds under/around 20Kg would be the sweet spot.
This would be a bike giving him the power, torque and range he has now but much lighter, likely much less rattle noise with the only downside (for me) being the higher cost

 

[Emailsucks98]

Light weight, range, power. Pick two.

 

[Str1fe]

Any news from people at the eurobike ?

 

[mike425]

Any news from people at the eurobike ?

I saw a video of the TQ stand and there did not appear to be any mention of it....unless they plan to do it as a formal announcement, think we might be in for a bit of a disappointment.

Maxon seems the only one still to me

 

[DylanJM]

I think any other motor announcement are gonna fall a bit flat after yesterday

 

[Str1fe]

Or maybe the rumors were just that, rumors.
I've said several times that it doesn't make much sense for TQ to launch a full-power motor right now.
Their priority should be to strengthen their position in the mid-power segment, especially now that Fazua is out of the picture.


But let's see...

 

[nickf]

Or maybe the rumors were just that, rumors.

On this forum? Surely not!

 

[irie]

Or maybe the rumors were just that, rumors.
I've said several times that it doesn't make much sense for TQ to launch a full-power motor right now.
Their priority should be to strengthen their position in the mid-power segment, especially now that Fazua is out of the picture.


But let's see...

Another way of looking at this, as said earlier:

Would make sense for TQ to launch a HPR90 to further consolidate their technical lead in their market sector

 

[Str1fe]

Another way of looking at this, as said earlier:

It depends , we're missing a lot of information. We don't know TQ's financials. If sales are strong and more brands are interested in adopting the HPR60 for their mid-power e-bikes (which sounds much more believable than the rumors about a new motor), there's no real reason for TQ to rush into the full-power segment.

Right now, Avinox is stealing the spotlight and has put every other motor manufacturer in a tough spot.

I see two possible options:
1) TQ launches a full-power motor anyway, with relatively standard specs, let say 90 Nm and 750 W — and tries to compete in a market that's currently obsessed with Avinox. Maybe that option is possible if they keep the natural feeling and silence of the HPR60, then it's relevant.

or

2) They build on the HPR60's success, which has been praised by both riders and the media, and focus on getting more brands to adopt it.

 

[Imanol]

It depends , we're missing a lot of information. We don't know TQ's financials. If sales are strong and more brands are interested in adopting the HPR60 for their mid-power e-bikes (which sounds much more believable than the rumors about a new motor), there's no real reason for TQ to rush into the full-power segment.

Right now, Avinox is stealing the spotlight and has put every other motor manufacturer in a tough spot.

I see two possible options:
1) TQ launches a full-power motor anyway, with relatively standard specs, let say 90 Nm and 750 W — and tries to compete in a market that's currently obsessed with Avinox. Maybe that option is possible if they keep the natural feeling and silence of the HPR60, then it's relevant.

or

2) They build on the HPR60's success, which has been praised by both riders and the media, and focus on getting more brands to adopt it.

If they launch a TQ90 motor—maintaining a weight of around 2.2 kg, 600 W of power, and a 700 Wh battery(±3 kg)—it would dominate the lightweight segment.