Lower bars = Lower back pain😡

[apac]

Just swapped out my bars n stem from 760mm, 45mm stem, 35mm bar rise to
800mm, 50mm stem, 20mm rise.

Early into a ride yesterday I felt a pull in my lower back. Rode through it for 75mins. My lower back was aching after the ride and stil is today.

Coincidence? And/Or will the pain come back next ride?
I’m much preferring the new set up.

 

[Gary]

Longer stem and wider bar also means your lower back has to bend slightly further forwards.
All 3 changes together will place more load on your lower back in any situation where you raise the front wheel.
Increasing core exercise and stretching/yoga may help

 

[B1rdie]

That pain is the body ansewr to the 75 min of suffering imposed by the will to keep riding after the proper pain alarm was sent.
It will happen again and become worse…
All three changes that were made impose a more forward stance, and the core muscles need time to get strong enough to support the upper body now leaning more to the front end.
Naturally this increases the weight supported by the arms pressing the handlebars and this may feel good for handling the bike but will transfer stress straight to the lower back, if you’re seated.
Giving a time to rest whenever the pain shows again and keeping the hands light at the handlebars while climbing is the way to strenghen the core muscles while on the bike.

 

[stressballsteve]

The lower position will mean you'll be straining to support yourself. If you're going to keep this set up, I would suggest core strengthening exercises. This will take the load of your lower back and ease the pain.

 

[Gary]

Nah.. Slammin the saddle an pullin sweet mannies, hops n jumps for da Laydees is the most fun way to increase core strength.

 

[apac]

I can see there’s plenty to try. I much preferred the riding position but it seems my body didn’t. My core gets a fair bit of use during long swimming sessions, but it’s been a while since I’ve been on a stomach crunch machine.
As I felt the pull/twinge right at the beginning of the ride I may have just got unlucky, But I guess it’s still my body not liking the position it was in. I can probably up the height of the bars by 10mm for starters.
As my SL has such a short rear end it felt better having more weight planted at front without having my neck stretched out over the bars

 

[Mikerb]

I doubt it is a coincidence and you have changed quite a bit all at once in terms of cockpit set up so not surprising.
I do not think you have to have a lower upper body position to be able to weigh the front of the bike a little more especially when up on the pedals since bending your arms a little more does the same thing. Seated is of course a different issue.
I suspect the biggest single change you have made is in fact bar width. Going to 800mm means your arms are spread a lot wider than your shoulders and a lot less capable of supporting your upper body especially on lumpy terrain ( try doing press ups with your hands that wide!!). I suggest you reduce to c 780 or 770.

 

[Doug Stampfer]

What's your flexibility like? I'd suggest that if you're doing long swims your lower back would be quite tight to begin with. I'm thinking back to my tri days & remembering how horrible it was to get down on the aerobars after a long swim

 

[B1rdie]

I used to love swimming but decided to stop when the shoulder started making an annoying ratcheting noise. Its not the best exercise for this kind of pain that you had, though, I guess.
Rowing or something that envolves also streching of the lower back… maybe it was just some pain that would have ceased if you had dismounted and done some rest and then a warm up?
Muscle pain is the only one thats ok while riding, because there are going to be chances to rest during the ride, pain at the joints, tendons and ligaments will only get worse.

 

[apac]

What's your flexibility like? I'd suggest that if you're doing long swims your lower back would be quite tight to begin with. I'm thinking back to my tri days & remembering how horrible it was to get down on the aerobars after a long swim

I'm about as flexible as a starched collar.

 

[Gary]

Get pullin mannies.
Once you get good enough to pulls da Laydees your flexibility will increase rapid!

Or basic yoga lower back stretches.

 

[Mabman]

Lower back Yoga classes are the best!

 

[Doug Stampfer]

Lower back Yoga classes where an experienced & tuned-in-to-your-needs instructor warms you gently & very slowly into deeper stretches are the best!

FTFY

 

[apac]

What's your flexibility like? I'd suggest that if you're doing long swims your lower back would be quite tight to begin with. I'm thinking back to my tri days & remembering how horrible it was to get down on the aerobars after a long swim

Get pullin mannies.
Once you get good enough to pulls da Laydees your flexibility will increase rapid!

Or basic yoga lower back stretches.

Lucky for me my wife is an advanced yogi . She's already on my case about strengthening my lower abs. Take that how you want guys

 

[STATO]

While core strength will likely be the solution, it may be that you are now overstretching when seated. Consider moving the saddle forward somewhat to counteract. Of course you might not want to go forward a lot as it effects other things, and moving it forward will require some core strength to support the upper body, but it can help the lower back if the pain was from overstretching not an overworked core.

Personally i had backpain riding from having to lean over too much due to a lot of setback on the saddle (tall guy with a history of too small bikes), meaning i was in a quite closed position/folded over. On my road and XC bike a bike fit resulted in moving the saddle forward combined with a longer stem helped way more than i ever expected. For my trail bike the trend for steeper seat angles mean my position over the BB is already forward and long reach numbers means I didnt need a longer stem to still stay comfortable. My core gets more of a workout but the backpain went from being in pain on my 10 mile commute, to riding 100 miles and only pain was in my arse . Summary, dont just settle with back pain or assume more stretching and core will fix it if you already have reasonable flexibility (which i guess you would if you did ride and lot and did yoga anyway).

 

[slippery pete]

Are the new bars similar sweep to the old ones? I managed to bring on tennis elbow symptoms from Renthal bar shape and have no problem with Burgtec. Not the same injury at all but stresses tend to get passed along until they find the point of weakness.

You've gone wider, lower and more reach on the stem. Maybe revert one of these.

Wider is easy to assess if you have lock on grips. Just slide them and the controls in a bit. If you have a big ape index you can justify 800mm but many of us can't.

 

[apac]

While core strength will likely be the solution, it may be that you are now overstretching when seated. Consider moving the saddle forward somewhat to counteract. Of course you might not want to go forward a lot as it effects other things, and moving it forward will require some core strength to support the upper body, but it can help the lower back if the pain was from overstretching not an overworked core.

Personally i had backpain riding from having to lean over too much due to a lot of setback on the saddle (tall guy with a history of too small bikes), meaning i was in a quite closed position/folded over. On my road and XC bike a bike fit resulted in moving the saddle forward combined with a longer stem helped way more than i ever expected. For my trail bike the trend for steeper seat angles mean my position over the BB is already forward and long reach numbers means I didnt need a longer stem to still stay comfortable. My core gets more of a workout but the backpain went from being in pain on my 10 mile commute, to riding 100 miles and only pain was in my arse . Summary, dont just settle with back pain or assume more stretching and core will fix it if you already have reasonable flexibility (which i guess you would if you did ride and lot and did yoga anyway).

my wife does yoga…. I do not! I am not flexible. Ive since noticed that when swapping out my components I inadvertently used less spacers under my stem. I’ve now re-raised the stem and have also raked/rotated back the bars towards me with the hope it will be a little less punishing on my back. A sensible person would just put the old components back on. Of which caused no issues. But I have liked the change and it has given more front end grip which was the whole point of the swap. There’s a little room to manoeuvre the seat forward but this may effect peddling position… I will have to try.

 

[apac]

Are the new bars similar sweep to the old ones? I managed to bring on tennis elbow symptoms from Renthal bar shape and have no problem with Burgtec. Not the same injury at all but stresses tend to get passed along until they find the point of weakness.

You've gone wider, lower and more reach on the stem. Maybe revert one of these.

Wider is easy to assess if you have lock on grips. Just slide them and the controls in a bit. If you have a big ape index you can justify 800mm but many of us can't.

I swapped out my OneUp bars which are 8* sweep to rental fatbar which are 7*. I had some hand fatigue at the end of the ride but I put this down to the new riding position. Again, so many variables and combinations to trial!

 

[STATO]

my wife does yoga…. I do not! I am not flexible. Ive since noticed that when swapping out my components I inadvertently used less spacers under my stem. I’ve now re-raised the stem and have also raked/rotated back the bars towards me with the hope it will be a little less punishing on my back. A sensible person would just put the old components back on. Of which caused no issues. But I have liked the change and it has given more front end grip which was the whole point of the swap. There’s a little room to manoeuvre the seat forward but this may effect peddling position… I will have to try.

Cool. I just wanted to raise it as an option. I dont think it will reduce pedaling efficiency much, at least not compared to riding with a sore back . And as you said the change in position benefits the fun riding, so there is always a compromise somewhere, that might be having to do yoga.

*also, renthal fatbars i found were brutally stiff, so keep an eye on hand fatigue. Any more issues and someone is bound to suggest you just need to do a full gym session the day before a ride

 

[Mikerb]

Many years a go I remember a H and S course on manual handling........you know...straight back bend the knees etc.....and it illustrated the force exerted on the small of the back just by the weight of your head and shoulders, even before you try to lift something, when you are bent over. Given the distance between the small of the back and the weight of head and shoulders that force was over a ton!!

To relate that to riding position on a bike, ironically if you are lent over as low as a road cyclist using drops the force on the small of the back is significantly less.
On a city bike/ touring bike the riding position is the opposite extreme, usually quite upright, so little or no strain on the back, but the downside is the majority of your body weight is on the saddle.........hence the cushioned or even sprung saddles on those bikes.
So what about mountain bikes? The typical riding position on a mtb is midway between those 2 extremes. There is therefore the potential to put strain on the back and or hands and forearms........or both just by varying that angle by a few degrees.

I am 6ft ( 183cm) tall but with long legs and relatively shorter upper body so getting the right riding position is often not straightforward for me; more so now with more and more bikes being designed with a longer reach.

So my correct fit criterea is a very simple one. If riding seated I try to achieve a balance of about 70/30 weight on the saddle verses weight on the bars. With that sort of weight distribution I can easilly take both hands off the bars without having to strain my back. When transferred to riding on the pedals I can keep my upper body at about the same angle merely by bending my arms more but I am still not leant over such that all my upper body weight is supported on my hands.........plus bent arms act as suspension.
Every bike varies and of course body dimensions vary. So your overall height or inside leg measurement is not a total guide, and ETT, stack, and reach dimensions of a bike are only a guide. Even the varying height of the headtube makes a difference.
Fortunately as in the posts a bove, there are a number a ways the fit can be adjusted to suit.

So having achieved a good riding position.........was that on the flat??
What happens to that weight distribution and your line of vision when you and bike are angled 45 degrees down on a gravity run??

 

[Grendel]

This is about more than muscles. Riding in that flexed position compresses the front portion of the discs in the low back and bulges them towards the rear where the nerves reside. You can try counterbalancing this with stretches/exercises that accentuate back extension (look up McKenzie Exercises) and regular use of these may help you keep the new setup. Best of luck!

 

[Goodmango13]

Just swapped out my bars n stem from 760mm, 45mm stem, 35mm bar rise to
800mm, 50mm stem, 20mm rise.

Early into a ride yesterday I felt a pull in my lower back. Rode through it for 75mins. My lower back was aching after the ride and stil is today.

Coincidence? And/Or will the pain come back next ride?
I’m much preferring the new set up.

I must chime in on this one....I ride 2-4 days per week year round and have been a practicing Chiropractor for 38 years as well as a yoga teacher for 25 years....yoga is amazing, truly, for lots of reasons for physical and non-physical benefit. Yet the most beneficial movement concepts and postures I have incorporated into my own practice is teaching my athletic patients FOUNDATION TRAINING (FT). FT is simple and easy to learn without having to struggle with flexiblity issues or complex routines but most importantly strengthens and lengthens the back, hips, shoulders and neck as well as decompressing the spine. It also dovetails seamlessly with yoga routines. Easily found on youtube or at FOUNDATION TRAINING.com or the various books/videos created, the new book FOUNDATIONS OF HEALTH by Dr. Eric Goodman is freshly printed this week and available now.
So while you are considering all of the variations of geometry and set ups for your ride/style comfort I have found that it always comes down to rider/pilot geometry and movement awareness that translates into a feelgood experience. Your body/back, hips and neck will feel the new strength for those challenging rides/terrain and you'll know more about your body and how you like your bike geometry because your body is more tapped in to what feels good.

 

[apac]

I must chime in on this one....I ride 2-4 days per week year round and have been a practicing Chiropractor for 38 years as well as a yoga teacher for 25 years....yoga is amazing, truly, for lots of reasons for physical and non-physical benefit. Yet the most beneficial movement concepts and postures I have incorporated into my own practice is teaching my athletic patients FOUNDATION TRAINING (FT). FT is simple and easy to learn without having to struggle with flexiblity issues or complex routines but most importantly strengthens and lengthens the back, hips, shoulders and neck as well as decompressing the spine. It also dovetails seamlessly with yoga routines. Easily found on youtube or at FOUNDATION TRAINING.com or the various books/videos created, the new book FOUNDATIONS OF HEALTH by Dr. Eric Goodman is freshly printed this week and available now.
So while you are considering all of the variations of geometry and set ups for your ride/style comfort I have found that it always comes down to rider/pilot geometry and movement awareness that translates into a feelgood experience. Your body/back, hips and neck will feel the new strength for those challenging rides/terrain and you'll know more about your body and how you like your bike geometry because your body is more tapped in to what feels good.

Thanks for the wise words I will be looking FT up straight away. I must admit my Body is rather rigid and tense(all of the time) and yoga really has not clicked for me when I have tried it with my wife.

 

[bazxa]

foam rolling and increased pelvis flexibility may help especially if you do the yoga as well.

 

[1oldfart]

There is no good reason for wide bars. You are in a racer position
and the pain says you are no racer. Many things can help.
Narrow bar.
More raiser.
Shorter stem.
Maybe push your saddle forward.
The # 1 question is why did you change?
Often using 2 or 3 solutions get you in your sweet spot.

 

[Gary]

There are plenty good reasons for running wide bars. Especially when riding a heavy EMTB.

Whether 800mm is an ideal width for you is impossible for anyone here to determine from the information we've been given.

Lots of people online mention ape index when talking about bar width and stem lengths but is in actual fact an incredibly meaningless formula to use to determine any sort of bike fit. As it doesn't take into account shoulder width to arm length or leg length to torso length proportions.

 

[mark.ai]

I do enjoy this video on bar width

 

[Gary]

*sigh*

not that little gnome again.

Bar width is personal preference. and generally affected by comfort.

 

[1oldfart]

6 years ago i started at 740 cutting about 20 each year, i love my 600 and that is just my choice.
Lucky me it is legal

 

[apac]

The # 1 question is why did you change?
Often using 2 or 3 solutions get you in your sweet spot.

you've answered your own question. I'm trailing what the difference will be. I am also trying to find more grip up front, especially at this time of year. If it means trying extremes and then slowly cutting back then that's a good way for me learn what the differences do to bike and rider handling and bike and rider behaviour. I don't think it's a racer position as I'm using the stock stem and only 5mm less rise than the stock bars(levo SL).