Is it me? Second faulty EP8 after 315 miles total…

RJUK

Active member
Sep 29, 2021
548
288
UK
I don't think its about keeping shimano happy, since the same bike that canyon resolved to use the EP8 on, comes with a full sram eletronic drivetrain. In fact that surprised me even more: why did they choose tho use the shimano motor and not take the advantage of full integrated drivetrain and shifting control?
The costs involved in servicing a motor should also be considered. There are fragile PCB, bulky bearings that are sealed and sprockets that need lube that may compromise the PCB, tinny sensors and I/O devices all housed tightly, in such a way that very few riders could DIY and even fewer mechanics are prone to work on.
I dunno, they seem to do this sometimes, mix componentry on bikes like this. Again, not sure if it's to keep all partners happy. "Sorry, we've made an agreement with Bosch to supply the motors this year, but you can provide the groupset and brakes." Kinda thing. Who knows.

Or maybe on all the new bikes they were making they needed, say 3000 motors and Shimano could only supply 1500 in the timescale required, so they had to split things. I kinda doubt it though, as these bikes are planned so far ahead.

Maybe they just know that Bosch is more popular or wanted to offer the Bosch features.

You mention that it's hard to service a motor because of the size, but Bosch and Brose manage... And they're nowhere near as compact as something like a watch or mobile phone, for example. It shouldn't be nigh impossible to replace bearings, especially since they're a wear item.
 

billium

Member
Jul 10, 2022
98
86
Sussex
I wouldn't read into it too much. Probably more about supplier deals and availability than anything. They probably want to keep Shimano happy so they can still get good pricing on their drive trains, but put Bosch on the models they think will sell more.

TBH, I've ordered a Strive: On. I 100% wouldn't have if it had the Shimano motor. It's what had previously stopped me ordering a Spectral: On.

Whilst I like the Bosch system better overall, it's the complete lack of serviceability that is stopping me buying a bike with the Shimano motor. That's a complete deal breaker and seems insane in a time where we need to be thinking more about sustainability. In a few years all these non-recyclable carbon frames will have dead motors and inevitably end up in landfill.

I reckon anyone with the knowledge to build their own serviceable motor into the Shimano casing would have a nice little business keeping all those bikes going.
I too am looking at the Strive because the non-serviceable Spectral Shimano motor is a deal breaker for me.
Hopefully the right-to-repair legislation floating around for cell phones and Tractors will eventually force manufacturers to sell motor parts.
 

RJUK

Active member
Sep 29, 2021
548
288
UK
I too am looking at the Strive because the non-serviceable Spectral Shimano motor is a deal breaker for me.
Hopefully the right-to-repair legislation floating around for cell phones and Tractors will eventually force manufacturers to sell motor parts.
We can only hope. Seemingly carbon frames aren't very easy to recycle, so usually end up in landfill. As such, it seems daft to accelerate the frame's destiny by designing a key part of it to fail so early in the bike's life.
 

Frankyspec

Member
Dec 3, 2022
59
19
Belgium
A friend of mine rides an orbea wild with bosh motor, 2,5 years old, motor suddenly broken, one morning doesn’t want to start… going to lbs and conclusions motor is broken… no service what ever, no warranty, orders a new motor for 900€ and will see if he has to pay the for the install to? So it’s not better than shimano imo, or the dealer is the problem …
 

RJUK

Active member
Sep 29, 2021
548
288
UK
A friend of mine rides an orbea wild with bosh motor, 2,5 years old, motor suddenly broken, one morning doesn’t want to start… going to lbs and conclusions motor is broken… no service what ever, no warranty, orders a new motor for 900€ and will see if he has to pay the for the install to? So it’s not better than shimano imo, or the dealer is the problem …
All motors break and yes, don't expect any help out of warranty. The issue with the Shimano is that you can't even do preventative maintenance. The Bosch you can change the bearings annually if you want to, to keep it running nicely.

Can't do anything like that with the Shimano and once the bearings go, the motor is scrap.
 

Cyclopath1000

Active member
Apr 26, 2019
310
125
Davis Ca
Quick ? Do those that tank motors with low miles ( replaced mine at 5k miles) blow through the suspension and bottom out?? my guess is if you should land a huge jump and bottom it out and now your motor is broken I don’t think that Shimano‘s design fault! That sounds kind of similar to taking your new civic, off-road and jumping off the rock with it and wondering why the suspension is non-functional.
 

Wilbur

Member
Dec 12, 2022
128
90
New Zealand
I'm surprised that the after-market repair industry hasn't developed a bearing overhaul for Shimano motors, or is that their motors are mostly failing prematurely with other electronic issues, before the bearings need replacing?

As far as I know Bosch PCB assemblies and motor parts as also not available, so it doesn't seem that any motor manufacturers care about supporting their product beyond the warranty period. Motors are basically a disposable item.
 

RJUK

Active member
Sep 29, 2021
548
288
UK
Quick ? Do those that tank motors with low miles ( replaced mine at 5k miles) blow through the suspension and bottom out?? my guess is if you should land a huge jump and bottom it out and now your motor is broken I don’t think that Shimano‘s design fault! That sounds kind of similar to taking your new civic, off-road and jumping off the rock with it and wondering why the suspension is non-functional.
Sure, but bikes are meant to be taken off road and do jumps etc. You aren't expected to take a Civic offroading.

That's why you don't get people complaining about Civic suspension not allowing offroading. It's not the intended purpose.

And I would agree that all the motors aren't great. But from what I read, the Shimano is the worst. Seem to be a lot of people complaining about them specifically.

Hopefully all the brands will wake up and start making them serviceable. Part of the issue is that they update them every few years and always make them not backwards compatible, so the old motors are always becoming obsolete. If they were like bottom brackets or brakes and could be swapped out/upgraded with a standard fitment then I think it would be less of an issue. People would just buy the latest motor and swap it out. It would probably also help bring the price down... Which is probably why they're not doing it.
 

billium

Member
Jul 10, 2022
98
86
Sussex
Yes they do sell bearings for Shimano but they won't work on them!

That says a lot....

From Repair & Overhaul Service (New) - eBike Motor Centre (Performance Line Bearings)
Within the UK we offer a full repair and overhaul service for Bosch, Brose, Impulse, Panasonic and Yamaha ebike motors. Please note: We do not currently support Shimano motors.
 

Farmernz

Active member
Jun 18, 2019
104
216
Alexandra
I Must have the record or be close to it- 20 minutes from brand new and mine lunched itself 😬. It was replaced very quickly by awesome local shop. Apparently the clutch let go, in it, so I hope this one is better, as love the bike and how it rides with ep8.
 

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