Industry Veteran Hans Rey Calls for Clearer E-Bike Definitions

Ratcliff1893 said:
Come on these are supposed to be pedal assist bicycles not motorised vehicles. Turning the cranks can give you all the power with little effort if you want to burn the battery.
Anything more than what’s available now is just unnecessary! This is marketing aimed at machismo and it’s working.
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It's not "JUST" turning the pedals.
As it is today:

1) Motor assistances rider in accordance to % of rider power.

2) Once reached 25km/h, motor assistance is stop.

Please check graphic from: E-Bike Motor Power Test - Who is the strongest? | E-Bike Lab

power_comparison__all_motors_.webp
 
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ZR1 said:
Speed limits, at least in the EU are what reduces shared trail conflict
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Speed limitations, not speed limits.
DH you can reach many times more speed than 25km/h!

If speed is the problem, and the origin of "conflicts", you need to control speed in EVERY part of the trail - which is not pratically fesable...just saying.
[Law enforcement cannot contol speed on the road.... where millions pass every day, let alone OFF-ROAD trails]
 
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pagheca said:
There’s an unhealthy tendency nowadays for people to complain about everything, all the time, thanks to the possibility to share their voice with zillion unkown people in the world.

We have thousands of options available, far more than any previous era, and unmatched freedom, more than much of the world still has today. Yet we’re quick to complain about everithing and label any rule as "oppressive".

Even if the limit were something as absolute as the power of the sun or the speed of light, you can be sure people would still find a way to complain about it endlessly.

p.s. I’m sure these two kids (random stock photo taken from the internet) would burst out laughing reading these highly intellectual discussions in this thread about speed and power and whatever.

View attachment 180062

NOTE: look carefully at the left pedal...
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We can go through that rabbit hole!

1) Those kids, and many like them, don't have access to something more basic, than EBIKES, starting with:

- Water supply at home (unfortenatly some not even water supply at the Village, needing to travel hours to get water)
- Energy Supply (no fridge, no TV, no radio, no light, nothing, NADA!).
- Wealthcare: when some still debate about vacination (Option!), most African Children DON'T have access to vacination (things simple as Diahrrea to more complicated as Polio). No one dies from this in Western countries. Let alone more complex wealthcare: Surgeries (bypass/cancer/etc...), or imaging machines (MRi, TAC, etc...).
- Education: Yeah... we see some of our kids dropping, while theirs don't even have a school.
- Food
[Just to name a few Maslow essecials...]

2) Yes we have options and voices.
Being Human, is about moving and changing things.
Sometimes, it's a GOOD move, sometimes it's a BAD move.
It's how we got here the 1st time.
 
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ZR1 said:
250w peak would take an average rider to world level fitness. where was all the outrage when we had 500/600w motors?

Speed limits, at least in the EU are what reduces shared trail conflict
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I think there’s a fair point in what you’re saying, particularly around how speed limits — at least in the EU — help keep shared trail use manageable.

On the power side, I also agree it’s not as simple as just quoting a wattage number. We’ve had higher output systems for a while now, so the reaction seems to be more about how that power is used and perceived, rather than the number itself.

From a personal perspective, E-MTB is the only reason I’m riding at all. After a heart attack, I worked with my cardiologist for two years on a structured recovery programme, with a strict maximum heart rate of 130 bpm. Without motor assistance, riding in Greece simply wouldn’t be viable.

The terrain here is consistently steep, loose, and sustained — typical rides are 40–50 km with 800–1,000 m of climbing on rough tracks. That combination would push heart rate well beyond safe limits without assistance.

My current setup (Bosch Performance Line, 75Nm, dual 600Wh batteries) allows me to manage effort safely and stay within those limits.

So while I understand the concerns being raised around power, I think it’s also worth recognising that for some of us, this isn’t about “more power” — it’s about being able to ride at all.

Overall though, I agree with your underlying point — the framework already in place, particularly speed limits, probably does more to manage real-world interaction than focusing on power figures in isolation.
 
Let’s put this simply from a uk perspective. The power and speed of an E-MTB is sufficient for people to enjoy riding their bicycle. The power available is far greater than most can do under their own steam. Reality is no one generally gives a flying F what middle age men do in the woods or at the bike park. The issue is teenagers on converted Carreras wheeling the wrong way up the street, people going 40mph in cycle lanes, drug dealers on Surrons, dick heads on Surrons etc etc. We are all being tarred with the same brush. It’s us that will be punished by any regulations!
TFL made a blanket ban on all emtbs on the transport network because it’s far simpler than implementing nuanced rules!
There could be some blunt rules applied for us! Remember it’s a bicycle!
All this you can go down hill faster or a Ferrari is much quicker than the speed limit really isn’t the point!
 
Ratcliff1893 said:
Let’s put this simply from a uk perspective. The power and speed of an E-MTB is sufficient for people to enjoy riding their bicycle. The power available is far greater than most can do under their own steam. Reality is no one generally gives a flying F what middle age men do in the woods or at the bike park. The issue is teenagers on converted Carreras wheeling the wrong way up the street, people going 40mph in cycle lanes, drug dealers on Surrons, dick heads on Surrons etc etc. We are all being tarred with the same brush. It’s us that will be punished by any regulations!
TFL made a blanket ban on all emtbs on the transport network because it’s far simpler than implementing nuanced rules!
There could be some blunt rules applied for us! Remember it’s a bicycle!
All this you can go down hill faster or a Ferrari is much quicker than the speed limit really isn’t the point!
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I think there is a fair point in what you’re saying, particularly around how enforcement tends to work in practice.

In most cases, the issue is not what people are doing off-road or on managed trails. As you say, that generally attracts little attention. The pressure tends to come from visible misuse in urban environments — illegal conversions, excessive speed in cycle lanes, and behaviour that creates risk to other road users.

Where it becomes relevant to the rest of us is in how that pressure is translated into policy and enforcement. In practice, enforcement is rarely applied evenly. Those who are operating within the rules are easier to identify, easier to stop, and more likely to comply. Those who are already outside the rules are harder to control and often continue regardless.

That creates a situation where broad measures can end up being applied to everyone, while the underlying behaviours that triggered concern are only partially addressed.

The example you mentioned with Transport for London is a good illustration of that. The response to a specific risk — battery fires — has been a blanket restriction across e-bikes, rather than something more targeted at non-compliant or modified equipment. It is a clear case of a simple, enforceable measure being preferred over a more differentiated approach.

At the same time, it is worth noting that more targeted enforcement is possible. In a number of European cities, classification systems are clearer and enforcement is more active. I travel regularly within the EU and have seen police stopping and checking e-bikes; most recently in Zurich three weeks ago. That suggests the issue is not capability, but how systems are designed and applied.

So I think the concern you’ve raised is valid. The risk is not necessarily from compliant E-MTB use itself, but from how broader issues are interpreted and responded to — and how that response is then applied across the whole category.
 
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Speed control, on ALL.

Questions:
If a BIKE is allowed to ride in Public Road, and has to obey the law, shouldn'r all have:
a) Speedometer
b) Horn
C) Lights & reflectors

We're debating an issue, each with their arguments, but it would be better starting to discuss more simple things, applicable to ALL that use Public Road.
 
Rob Rides EMTB said:
Ironically the Bosch Race motor is the most violent / aggressive map out of all of the above motors in my opinion. A new rider could get into trouble using it in that mode. (I really like it btw).

Avinox is slower to get up to speed, even with its 1000w. It’s like a turbo car with a lot of turbo lag.
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I’ve had the same concern about e-bikes with either a throttle or that respond with a lunge forward when somebody stomps the pedal. Highly disappointed that the major E bike manufacturers are pursuing an arms race. To make it even worse, they are going after my little baby Power class three gravel Bike with a vengeance. Creo, 250w , gravel bike is seen as a menace to society.
 
This video from Not Just Bikes shows how easy it is to take the wrong turn in bicycle policy, and why the U.S. is not very advanced when it comes to bike circulation:


Quite amazing the impact of the “US exceptionalism” mentality…
 
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Ratcliff1893 said:
Why does anyone need that much power with the speed limits? In the case of DJI and vpn it’s a different story and this is where the problems are going to arise for mountain bikers let alone all the other types of ebike causing chaos. E-bikes exceed the limitations of most riders yet that’s not enough! The emtb is morphing into something else now. Personally I would like to carry on riding my mountain bikes as I do now not be classed as low power moto etc.
It seems many have lost sight of what we do!
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Henry Quinney sums up DJI perfectly here (timestamped):

 
pagheca said:
This video from Not Just Bikes shows how easy it is to take the wrong turn in bicycle policy, and why the U.S. is not very advanced when it comes to bike circulation:


Quite amazing the impact of the “US exceptionalism” mentality…
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I want my time back for watching someone commenting about a book, written 40/50years ago!
 
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MeatBike said:
Henry Quinney sums up DJI perfectly here (timestamped):

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This guy is so lame...
He's like a grasshopper. Chewing & jumping all over the place!
Don't miss him over Pinkbike nor GMBN/Emgbn...

Someone that advocates for ebikes, showing of what eMTB is all about and also representing the majority of ebikers is Steve Jones.
Loved DIRT when he was there.
See Embn because of him.
 
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Mario Antony said:
This guy is so lame...
He's like a gradshopper. Chewing & jumping all over the place!
Don't miss him over Pinkbike nor GMBN/Emgbn...

Someone that advocates for ebikes, showing of what eMTB is all about and also representing the majority of ebikers is Steve Jones.
Loved DIRT when he was there.
See Embn because of him.
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He's right about DJI though.

Steve is great, I agree.
 
Main problem we have here in the UK is that the media always quote the phrase 'ebikes' when teenageers riding Surrons and the like are out committing a crime, antisocial behaviour or just riding illegally wearing balaclavas. The general public probably thinks that all ebikes are the same? There are an increasing number of illegal e-motorbikes on our roads now especially in towns and cities, and they are a bloody nuisance in my opinion. All of them are riding well over over the 15mph limit and even though many young kids have been killed or badly injured they still seem to get hold of these bikes? The police are doing their bit to 'crush' them but there are just too many now! I think we have little or no chance of the government ever raising the speed limit to 20mph for Emtb's in this country because of the way we are wrongly reported.
 
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Suns_PSD said:
Bosch could increase power 50% with a simple programming change, at least until thermal deregulation pulled power, such is the nature of electric motors.

Bosch is trying to be responsible by withholding but they are being pushed in to a corner at the moment imo by the power race.

At this point, I guess Bosch should offer a clear class 3 alternative motor to compete with Avinox/ Spesh. Hopefully they do it with a substantially different looking motor.
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I highly doubt bosch is “trying to be responsible.” They went from top dog to yesterday’s news so quick their heads are spinning. Bosch does a lot more than ebike motors, I'm surprised they even care tbh.
 
Peter Hill said:
we have little or no chance of the government ever raising the speed limit to 20mph for Emtb's in this country because of the way we are wrongly reported.
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Same here, we are stuck on 25kph, probably modelled here on the idea from the mother country. 15.5mph and zero chance of it being increased... actually some dickhead pollies talking about reducing it FFS.
 
Maybe there should be a test before you buy your emtb. The speed gets set to what you can sustain on a regular bike for 1 hour. Weekend warrior walks away with his bike locked to 9 mph 😆😆😆
 
Mario Antony said:
This guy is so lame...
He's like a grasshopper. Chewing & jumping all over the place!
Don't miss him over Pinkbike nor GMBN/Emgbn...

Someone that advocates for ebikes, showing of what eMTB is all about and also representing the majority of ebikers is Steve Jones.
Loved DIRT when he was there.
See Embn because of him.
Click to expand...
Love Steve
 
DylanJM said:
Pinkbike has to have one of the most negative user bases I have ever seen. No one is ever happy in a comment section there. Crazy amount of militant emtb haters also (mostly US/Canadian users). I think there's a quite a large ego component to it tbh.
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The Pinkbike comments section is designed for snark and it’s amazing. It’s there for the snark the absurdity and the silliness. Being annoyed by the PB community suggests a fundamental lack of understanding of the particular culture of PB - I’m not trying to be insulting btw…Have the serious discourse here and just chuckle over there …that is my - hopefully helpful - recommendation.
 
corporate BS , as usual.
European and US tech being ashamed, they try anything to rule China.
China holds ore used in magnet.
Bikes are already limited to 25 km/h in Europe.

Lame as ... losers will lose, let them lose like crybabies while we no longer work enough (and loose poorly) while eastern countries are on the rise before full domination.

EDIT : as mentionned, lose instead of loose.
 
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TonTonUB said:
corporate BS , as usual.
European and US tech being ashamed, they try anything to rule China.
China holds ore used in magnet.
Bikes are already limited to 25 km/h in Europe.

Lame as ... loosers will loose, let them loose like crybabies while we no longer work enough (and loose poorly) while eastern countries are on the rise before full domination.
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English tip: The words "lose" and "loser" only contain one "o". Loose means "not tight".
 
Gila Man said:
English tip: The words "lose" and "loser" only contain one "o". Loose means "not tight".
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it also contains the usual mistake: e-bikes are not "already limited to 25km/h in Europe", like in the original message. Only the pedal assistance is limited to 25 km/h.

It may sound obvious, but in reality it’s a linguistic trick used to complain about something that simply isn’t true.
 
Paulquattro said:
It comes to something when an American has to correct someone on the spelling of english words :)
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To be fair, TonTonUB lists France as his country so I'm just providing a little help. Not to worry, a lot of Americans are terrible at spelling. The English language has a lot of inconsistencies with spelling and pronunciations.
 
And what if... UCI or some sports entity sets a standard to a "racing ebike" category? So that every manufacturer could have an "official racing approved" model on their product line, like they do on windsurf sailing, where every racer is sailing the same board, from different brands, but with the same dimensions.
 
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