Has the category 'AllMountain' been phased out?

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Last time I checked, Allmountain bikes were 140mm travel rear up. Enduro is 160mm travel rear up & Downhill is 170mm travel rear up (gladly correct me if I'm mistaken).

Trail bikes are starting to become more broad, varying from short travel, mid travel, trail hardtail, aggressive trail etc (don't get me started on 'DownCountry').

Do we now just associate the category subject to the travel to determine the application or am I missing something?

 

[DtEW]

Well, MTBR.com has certainly phased it out (as a bike-type forum category), one reason being that too many noobs at this point don't understand it as a term-of-art, but instead were reading it to mean "everything mountain related," and hence posting about everything from XC hardtails to dirt jumpers.

I guess its definition being lost from the population is as-good-as-any-reason for a contrived categorization to die. Not that there's anything wrong about the bikes that used to be categorized as "All Mountain". Heck, I think the vast majority of our eMTBs fit the old definition, and they are pretty darn versatile.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Well, MTBR.com has certainly phased it out (as a bike-type forum category), one reason being that too many noobs at this point don't understand it as the term of art that it is, but instead were reading it to mean "everything mountain related," and hence posting about everything from XC hardtails to dirt jumpers.

I guess its definition being lost from the population is as-good-as-any-reason for a contrived categorization to die. Not that there's anything about the bikes that used to be categorized as "All Mountain". Heck, I think the vast majority of our eMTBs fit the old definition.

Fair point. One could argue that the AllMountain category would be even broader. I guess I need to get with the times ?

 

[Mikerb]

Specialized list 6 categories of use for their bikes with category 4 classed as "all mountain" for trail and uphill and moderate jumps and more difficult terrain but not large drops or jumps or hammering through obstacles etc.
I always took the term "all mountain" to mean a mid travel trail bike with a little more capability towards the enduro side of things.....but short of full enduro/downhill, freeride etc.
I think other brands also use a category/intended range of use listing.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Specialized list 6 categories of use for their bikes with category 4 classed as "all mountain" for trail and uphill and moderate jumps and more difficult terrain but not large drops or jumps or hammering through obstacles etc.
I always took the term "all mountain" to mean a mid travel trail bike with a little more capability towards the enduro side of things.....but short of full enduro/downhill, freeride etc.
I think other brands also use a category/intended range of use listing.

Hmmm, good to know. I'll look into that Mikerb. Thanks dude ?

 

[DtEW]

Fair point. One could argue that the AllMountain category would be even broader. I guess I need to get with the times ?

I think it's simply a matter of rear suspension becoming better-sorted so that longer-travels were no longer the deal-breakers they once were in terms of pedaling efficiency and handling responsiveness (also, change in popular riding habits), so people up-traveled for their given application, resulting in:

1) "XC bikes" taking over what used to be called "Trail bikes" (minimal to ~100mm rear travel)...
2) "Trail bikes" taking over what used to be called "All Mountain bikes" (~120mm to ~160mm rear travel), and...
3) "Enduro bikes" became the new sexy to capture the popular interest*, unseating "Freeride bikes".

* Mostly because Enduro bikes generally weren't as much of a dog to pedal around as the typical Freeride bike for the non-racing/non-high-consequence riding that most people actually did with them.

In other words, I think the definition for the subset of bikes that used to be referred-to as "All Mountain bikes" didn't change much at all. It's only the name that has changed (to "Trail bike"). But it did drag-in all the riders whose usage fit the older-definition, short-travel "trail bikes" simply because the new-definition "Trail bikes" are now efficient-enough and responsive-enough enough to do the same thing... just with more travel.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I think it's simply a matter of rear suspension becoming better-sorted so that longer-travels were no longer the deal-breakers they once were in terms of pedaling efficiency and handling responsiveness (also, change in popular riding habits), so people up-traveled for their given application, resulting in:

1) "XC bikes" taking over what used to be called "Trail bikes" (minimal to ~100mm rear travel)...
2) "Trail bikes" taking over what used to be called "All Mountain bikes" (~120mm to ~160mm rear travel), and...
3) "Enduro bikes" became the new sexy to capture the popular interest*, unseating "Freeride bikes".

* Mostly because Enduro bikes generally weren't as much of a dog to pedal around as the typical Freeride bike for the non-racing/non-high-consequence riding that most people actually did with them.

In other words, I think the definition for the subset of bikes that used to be referred-to as "All Mountain bikes" didn't change much at all. It's only the name that has changed (to "Trail bike"). But it did drag-in all the riders whose usage fit the older-definition, short-travel "trail bikes" simply because the new-definition "Trail bikes" are now efficient-enough and responsive-enough enough to do the same thing... just with more travel.

Ooh!! So the attributes remain prevalent but the category/classification has shifted.
This kind of makes sense (in a way), although I'm still scratching my head as to why we now have nee categories emerging like 'SuperEnduro'. Or do we now call it 'DownDuro' ?

 

[Beekeeper]

I guess I have an “all fire track bike” then.
I do wish someone would open up a bouncy castle theme park so us riders with hardtails could get some sort of insight to what riding a full sus is like.

 

[TheRealPoMo]

Weren't you trying a full suspension Cube late last year Beekeeper ? I was interested in your opinion - being another HT'r.
...and my HT is just fine on green and blue single-track. Hate rock gardens tho.

 

[Mteam]

Last time I checked, Allmountain bikes were 140mm travel rear up. Enduro is 160mm travel rear up & Downhill is 170mm travel rear up (gladly correct me if I'm mistaken).

Trail bikes are starting to become more broad, varying from short travel, mid travel, trail hardtail, aggressive trail etc (don't get me started on 'DownCountry').

Do we now just associate the category subject to the travel to determine the application or am I missing something?

There are no hard rules, there is no ISO standard for mountain bike classification that uses suspension travel as its differentiator that all manufacturers are bound to adhere to, the amount of suspension travel is at best an indicator of intended use of the bike, but it needs to be viewed in the context of the rest of the bike, its geo, components, suspension kinematics (I hate that word) etc to determine what sort of riding it would be best suited to.

The manufacturers will indicate in their marketing materials what kind of trails they think their bike is best suited to, but you'll usually be just fine using it for lots of other kinds of trails too - Possibly with the exception of downhill bikes, which dont tend to go uphill/along hill well at all.

Its all just riding bikes. I'm pretty much riding the exact same trails I used to ride 25 years ago on my fully rigid v braked claud butler as I am now on my full suss bikes, only now I'm going faster ,breaking less stuff and crashing less.

The lines are blurred , not black and white.

Among others - I've got a 170mm travel bike that is definitely not a downhill bike - although I'm sure it would be fine on a down hill track - just slower down it than a proper downhill bike.

 

[jbrown15]

Last time I checked, Allmountain bikes were 140mm travel rear up. Enduro is 160mm travel rear up & Downhill is 170mm travel rear up (gladly correct me if I'm mistaken).

Trail bikes are starting to become more broad, varying from short travel, mid travel, trail hardtail, aggressive trail etc (don't get me started on 'DownCountry').

Do we now just associate the category subject to the travel to determine the application or am I missing something?

i wouldn’t consider 170mm of travel and up DH, there’s plenty of 160-180mm rear travel enduro ebikes. IMHO you can’t can’t it a DH bike without at least a 190mm rear travel.

my eBike started out as a 180/170mm front & rear 27.5+ eBike and it now a 170/170mm front & rear 29/27.5 mullet enduro bike. Although extremely capable there’s no chance I consider it a DH eBike.

 

[Beekeeper]

Weren't you trying a full suspension Cube late last year Beekeeper ? I was interested in your opinion - being another HT'r.
...and my HT is just fine on green and blue single-track. Hate rock gardens tho.

We were all set to try a pair of full suspension Canyons and then lockdown struck and we couldn’t go.

Ambition is to ride a full sus at least once in my life before I pop my clogs ?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I guess I have an “all fire track bike” then.
I do wish someone would open up a bouncy castle theme park so us riders with hardtails could get some sort of insight to what riding a full sus is like.

Hardtail for life Beekeeper.
Yhew?

 

[Gary]

This kind of makes sense (in a way), although I'm still scratching my head as to why we now have nee categories emerging like 'SuperEnduro'. Or do we now call it 'DownDuro' ?

Super Enduro isn't new and has always just meant 170mm+ long travel FS enduro bike. eg. 160mm bikes like the. Nukeproof Giga or Propain which can still climb.
Downcountry was started as a piss take by Pinkbike but actually become a thing with manufacturers finally producing XC bikes with better descending geometry. The truth is a good bike rider could always descend well on an XC bike.
All mountain was a fairly stupid/meaningless category and named to bridge the gap between XC and DH. It was generally placed on mid travel FS bikes with triple or double chainsets.

The category shifts have come around as bikes and componentry have improved. most 2021 150mm trail bikes are more capable descenders than a lot of mid 90s DH bikes were and modern Enduro bikes blow them away.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

We were all set to try a pair of full suspension Canyons and then lockdown struck and we couldn’t go.

Ambition is to ride a full sus at least once in my life before I pop my clogs ?

Super Enduro isn't new and has always just meant 170mm+ long travel FS enduro bike. eg. 160mm bikes like the. Nukeproof Giga or Propain which can still climb.
Downduro was started as a piss take by Pinkbike but actually become a thing with manufacturers finally producing XC bikes with better descending geometry. The truth is a good bike rider could always descend well on an XC bike.
All mountain was a fairly stupid/meaningless category and named to bridge the gap between XC and DH. It was generally placed on mid travel FS bikes with triple or double chainsets.

The category shifts have come around as bikes and componentry have improved. most 2021 150mm trail bikes are more capable descenders than a lot of mid 90s DH bikes were and modern Enduro bikes blow them away.

Cheers for that Gary.
Goes without saying, Pinkbike holds influence on trends and innovation.

 

[St4nley]

It’s all about “Downcountry” these days ?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Just stumbled on this vid.
Perhaps the term 'AllMountain' hasn't been phased out (atleast state side of course) ?

 

[#lazy]

Don’t let the lefty snowflake woke brigade cancel this one boys ??