Giant targeted. This ain't good...

DaveMatthews

DaveMatthews

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Even without the forced labour US businesses can't compete with the far lower overheads that businesses in the Far East enjoy.
 
As a US non-citizen I had to search what this means. Sounds like Giant got dobbed in. Oddly, at a guess I would say the majority of their bikes and components are made in China, where lots of labour issues exist. I never realised this would happen in Taiwan.

They don't appear to be struggling to much, but maybe a factory in the US might make Trump happier.

www.giantgroup-cycling.com

Giant Group Posts NT$1.42 EPS in H1 2025 ; Inventory Back to Pre-Pandemic Levels, OEM Sales Up 30%｜Giant Group

Giant Group is an innovative Taiwanese parts and bicycle manufacturer that grew from an OEM to a world-renowned brand.
www.giantgroup-cycling.com www.giantgroup-cycling.com

CBP issues Withhold Release Order on Giant Manufacturing Co. Ltd.

Securing America's Borders
www.cbp.gov
 
I wouldn't put it past the Trump administration to make the worst possible interpretation of what Giant are doing if they believe that it would suit their re-shoring agenda. However, if parts of GIANT's supply chain are using forced labour, prisoners, children, or employing other unsavoury personnel practices, then they deserve what is coming to them.

It is no use GIANT saying that they didn't know, they didn't tell us etc. It is the responsibility of the procurement team to operate with eyes wide open, not just turn a blind eye to suspiciously cheap prices, or not being allowed to see parts of the suppliers manufacturing process. They are supposed to be professionals who not only are supposed to drive a hard bargain, but an equitable and sustainable one; and one that represents the company values.

Further, it is the responsibility of the GIANT board to have made clear what their policy is towards unsavoury employment practices in the GIANT supply chain. They cannot have no policy; they must be clearly for or against these practices. The GIANT board cannot shift blame onto junior members of the procurement team and the US government must not allow them to do so.

Let's hope that this works as a wake-up call to all manufacturers with a global supply chain.
 
This was a big topic in the road bike world a few years ago. The agreement between the US and Taiwan was signed back in 2023, they’ve had plenty of time to fix the issues but have half-assed it. People are still having to pay for the “privilege” of working at Giant, their living conditions haven’t improved etc. I’m kind of surprised it’s taken this long to do anything about it.
 
Ou812 said:
This was a big topic in the road bike world a few years ago. The agreement between the US and Taiwan was signed back in 2023, they’ve had plenty of time to fix the issues but have half-assed it. People are still having to pay for the “privilege” of working at Giant, their living conditions haven’t improved etc. I’m kind of surprised it’s taken this long to do anything about it.
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Different country, different culture etc. But I can't help thinking that that is appalling. (n)
Why not just pay them less instead?
Or is that so that the top line wage can be declared to GIANT USA as evidence that they are not underpaying their staff? :unsure:
 
steve_sordy said:
Different country, different culture etc. But I can't help thinking that that is appalling. (n)
Why not just pay them less instead?
Or is that so that the top line wage can be declared to GIANT USA as evidence that they are not underpaying their staff? :unsure:
Click to expand...

It’s pretty crazy when you look into it. Essentially the employees were paying a lot of money to “recruiters” to get the jobs then paying Giant a monthly fee on top of their already low salaries. It’s just like what I saw in the Middle East with all the Pakistanis and Indians, they’d go into massive debt before they ever left for the new job and were basically stuck living in terrible conditions while working to pay it back.

www.business-humanrights.org

Taiwan: Bicycle manufacturer Giant, brands Trek & Scott linked to allegations of fee-charging & abusive living conditions for migrant workers; incl. co. comments - Business and Human Rights Centre

Check out this page via the Business and Human Rights Centre
www.business-humanrights.org www.business-humanrights.org
 
Ou812 said:
It’s pretty crazy when you look into it. Essentially the employees were paying a lot of money to “recruiters” to get the jobs then paying Giant a monthly fee on top of their already low salaries. It’s just like what I saw in the Middle East with all the Pakistanis and Indians, they’d go into massive debt before they ever left for the new job and were basically stuck living in terrible conditions while working to pay it back.

www.business-humanrights.org

Taiwan: Bicycle manufacturer Giant, brands Trek & Scott linked to allegations of fee-charging & abusive living conditions for migrant workers; incl. co. comments - Business and Human Rights Centre

Check out this page via the Business and Human Rights Centre
www.business-humanrights.org www.business-humanrights.org
Click to expand...
Isn't this just corruption? The recruiters getting a kick back and someone in the HR or wages department getting a kickback? It sounds illegal and, irrespective of the culture, it should become illegal. Illegal or not, GIANT should be banning this practice and not just looking the other way and telling themselves "It's just how they are" exhibiting a condescending, borderline racist attitude towards their South Korean suppliers.

If this is all true and not just journalistic exaggeration, then I am fully supportive of the ban on GIANT. It will surely capture their attention!
 
steve_sordy said:
Isn't this just corruption? The recruiters getting a kick back and someone in the HR or wages department getting a kickback? It sounds illegal and, irrespective of the culture, it should become illegal. Illegal or not, GIANT should be banning this practice and not just looking the other way and telling themselves "It's just how they are" exhibiting a condescending, borderline racist attitude towards their South Korean suppliers.

If this is all true and not just journalistic exaggeration, then I am fully supportive of the ban on GIANT. It will surely capture their attention!
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Corruption is the rule throughout the world (just stating a fact).
 
as far as I can make out the issue is a bout large centres of manufacture with insufficient avaiability of local labour.....or probably to be more accurate.....insufficient availability of local labour prepared to do boring, repetitive, low paid work. that work is however attractive to foreign workers in countries with much lower living standards. That scenario leads to those foreign workers taking on personal debt in order to pay the recruitment agencies both in their own country and accept a further debt to the recruiting company. Hence they have money deducted by those companies...despite their already poor wages.....to repay that debt.
The manufacture % of GDP for so many Western Countries has reduced considerably over the last 20 years as countries take a dvantage of lower production costs in countries like China etc. Time we accepted that the primary reason for those lower costs is the lower cost of labour.
 
If Trump actually cared about indentured servitude, he wouldn't have taken a personal $2,000,000,000.00 kickback from UAE, where 90% of the population is indentured. It seems that Trump is just trying to distract the public from a more important topic and picked Giant simply because it looked "big".
 
The real reason is because Biden rides a bicycle and Giant, although they manufacture for other name brands like TREK, is a big enough manufacturer of bicycles to satisfy the base of idiots that are currently in charge of such things here by making trouble for them and thus giving Biden the middle finger.

Even if they moved all manufacturing to the US and paid union wages they would still have to use materials and components from other shores as well as bring in workers knowledgeable in production under 100k$ HB-1 status to initiate the scheme. And going forward how much cost will that add?

So be glad that you don't live in the USA, as if I had to say that.......as none of this will affect anywhere else in the world and perhaps even lower some costs due to loss of a main source of business by the big companies, like Giant, that have supplied the US for years?

As an aside if there was really interest in the use of slave type labor from overseas they would be going after whoever is making all the maga crap being sold? If you think that is paying a living wage I have swamp land for sale!
 
Mabman said:
The real reason is because Biden rides a bicycle
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OMG you are 100% correct! I forgot about that!

1759015638980.png
 
Gauss Guzzler said:
If Trump actually cared about indentured servitude, he wouldn't have taken a personal $2,000,000,000.00 kickback from UAE, where 90% of the population is indentured. It seems that Trump is just trying to distract the public from a more important topic and picked Giant simply because it labor laws and
Click to expand...

Mabman said:
The real reason is because Biden rides a bicycle and Giant, although they manufacture for other name brands like TREK, is a big enough manufacturer of bicycles to satisfy the base of idiots that are currently in charge of such things here by making trouble for them and thus giving Biden the middle finger.

Even if they moved all manufacturing to the US and paid union wages they would still have to use materials and components from other shores as well as bring in workers knowledgeable in production under 100k$ HB-1 status to initiate the scheme. And going forward how much cost will that add?

So be glad that you don't live in the USA, as if I had to say that.......as none of this will affect anywhere else in the world and perhaps even lower some costs due to loss of a main source of business by the big companies, like Giant, that have supplied the US for years?

As an aside if there was really interest in the use of slave type labor from overseas they would be going after whoever is making all the maga crap being sold? If you think that is paying a living wage I have swamp land for sale!
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I’m curious where your Kamala scarf and “Orange man bad” toe socks are made? 😂

All kidding aside…I am willing to pay more for a mountain bike, or a cell phone, or whatever, knowing that my slight increase in price means better quality of life and better working conditions for the people building them. This extends to Giant, Apple, Specialized, DJI, etc, where enforcement of international labor laws is long overdue in my opinion.

Hiring foreign workers, at artificially low wages, only drives down the wages of other US workers within similar jobs. This is true for all job categories in all countries.

And yes, the Trump DOJ and CBP are going after US companies that are hiring illegal workers and foreign workers here in the US. Trump has just made it very difficult and extremely expensive for US companies to hire foreign workers. Trump has increased the cost companies must pay to over $100k per H1 visa for a foreign worker, and must prove that the position they are hiring for , cannot be filled by a US worker or applicant. This will force companies to hire legal workers from the US. Common sense if you think about it. Why would you want your country’s leader to promote hiring foreigners over your own citizens?

What is your countries president or prime minister doing about it?
 
If they were trying to send a message.. interesting choice of company:
1. Taiwanese not Chinese not European.
2. Bicycles, not technology, not fossil fuel, not essential.
3. Less Republicans more Democrat left wing ride bicycles like cool Jo.
4. Less impact to US economy.
5. Bicycles keep you healthy and help climate change.

Plenty more reasons the Brains Trust could add to this list.
 
losgatosgtr said:
…I am willing to pay more for a mountain bike, or a cell phone, or whatever, knowing that my slight increase in price means better quality of life and better working conditions for the people building them
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Yep, if there's one thing we can all agree on, the whole maga thing is just a benign exercise in altruism aimed primarily at improving the lives of little brown fellers on the other side of the world.
 
A code of ethics I shared with in our club. Service Above Self and One Profits Most Who Serves Best, Rotary’s official mottoes, can be traced back to the early days of the organization.
 
Slavery, greed and corruption has been in mankind DNA since the the sun started to shine after rain.
Good luck changing mankind.
 
This thread is getting a bit deep!! The irony here at least as far as emtbs are concerned is that whilst offshoring of manufacture was justified on the basis of enabling lower cost goods, emtbs do not seem to have enjoyed the expected cost reduction by any stretch of the imagination!! Not surprising when you consider offshore manufactured goods are then subject to import tariffs and have to be transported often halfway around the world meaning, packaging, loading, unloading, distribution, part assembly, etc.
 
Emtbs do not seem to have enjoyed the expected cost reduction

My assumption is there are 2 main factors, the willingness to spend exorbitant sums for our toys. Basically voting for high price points. And ebikes are not made by one company instead they are a collection of different parts from different manufacturing companies assembled by a "brand". Middle man markups are part of the cost. Amflow may be heading in the direction of lower costs by the "Vertical" approach by doing more in-house.
 
offroad said:
If they were trying to send a message.. interesting choice of company:
1. Taiwanese not Chinese not European.
2. Bicycles, not technology, not fossil fuel, not essential.
3. Less Republicans more Democrat left wing ride bicycles like cool Jo.
4. Less impact to US economy.
5. Bicycles keep you healthy and help climate change.

Plenty more reasons the Brains Trust could add to this list.
Click to expand...

This whole thing started back in 2023 when the US/Taiwan trade agreement was signed….under the previous administration. They were targeting Giant bikes back then as they were one of the biggest offenders. It’s one of the few things that the Trump admin hasn’t scrapped from old admin.
 
Ndanger said:
Emtbs do not seem to have enjoyed the expected cost reduction

My assumption is there are 2 main factors, the willingness to spend exorbitant sums for our toys. Basically voting for high price points. And ebikes are not made by one company instead they are a collection of different parts from different manufacturing companies assembled by a "brand". Middle man markups are part of the cost. Amflow may be heading in the direction of lower costs by the "Vertical" approach by doing more in-house.
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Agreed except individual components are also premium priced. Also apparent when some products are surprisingly cheap is govt subsidy.....until market domination is achieved , then.......
 
Employment and gdp is categorised as a hierarchy by the globalists. It consists mining of raw materials at the bottom (coal, iron ore, fabric materials lithium etc) through fabrication ( steel making, ally extrusion, cloth etc) manufacture of finished product, design, then top of the tree is services ( finance,insurance , retail banking etc). According to their ethos, advanced economies should focused on the top of that hierarchy and offshore the rest.
The problem is that design is soon copied despite copyright and services does not provide employment for the significant proportion of the population for whom practical skills are their forte. So now manufacturing contributes only c 8% of GDP in the UK and 10% in the US.
 
The wrench in that machine is as you mentioned, design can be copied and the companies that produce for other countries have now decided to complete at the high margin retail side, instead of providing the components.
 
If we offshore all our manufacturing and leave all the finance, insurance, retail banking etc jobs for ourselves, we will be hit for a six when AI takes over all the admin jobs. The big legal and accountancy employers are already drastically cutting back on graduate intake because AI can do their jobs better and faster. It will spread, of that I have little doubt.

My son in law and I advised our grandson not to go to university, but to become an electrician instead. He is a bright lad and is doing well, already working on installing fibre optic cables and building control panels etc. It's difficult to see AI taking over those jobs unless they start building mobile robots. Even if they do, they will need electricians to be involved.
 
steve_sordy said:
My son in law and I advised our grandson not to go to university, but to become an electrician instead. He is a bright lad and is doing well, already working on installing fibre optic cables and building control panels etc. It's difficult to see AI taking over those jobs unless they start building mobile robots. Even if they do, they will need electricians to be involved.
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Your grandson went out entered into a secure career where he can hone his craft and make a ton of money? And he didn't borrow 200,000€ to squander four years at the university so he could get a job and aspire to be some mid-level pencil pusher who could easily be replaced by an iPad? After four years when his university peers graduate, they'll be in a deep economic pit, while your grandson will be well on his way to being a millionaire. You and your son-in-law should become guidance counselors for young kids.
 
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