Front DH Tyres Accurately Timed: Albert Radial vs Assegai

[RoJo]

Hey all
Thanks for all your input on the first video.
By popular request... part 2 of Front DH Tyres Accurately Timed:
Schwalbe Albert Radial Gravity Ultra Soft vs Maxxis Assegai DH MaxxGrip.
Another 15 timed laps on AC/DC at Bike Park Wales to quantify which tyre is quickest. No marketing hype, just data!
Enjoy and let me know what you think.

 

[RustyMTB]

Interesting stuff, thanks for that. I'm on a downer with Maxxis tyres lately, had a bunch of issues with Assegais, High Rollers & DHR's but probably not enough to swallow the radial marketing & pricing just yet & this adds to that line of thought.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Love this stuff. Keep it up!

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Hey all
Thanks for all your input on the first video.
By popular request... part 2 of Front DH Tyres Accurately Timed:
Schwalbe Albert Radial Gravity Ultra Soft vs Maxxis Assegai DH MaxxGrip.
Another 15 timed laps on AC/DC at Bike Park Wales to quantify which tyre is quickest. No marketing hype, just data!
Enjoy and let me know what you think.

Nice - you think the Magic Mary Radial might be similar in terms of performance in your testing?

 

[RoJo]

Nice - you think the Magic Mary Radial might be similar in terms of performance in your testing?

You are baiting me into a specific non-objective of my work which is speculation
Hard to resist though. MM is spikier, slightly deeper and more widely spaced knobs which should favour softer ground. I think in this case the ground is reasonably hard, so by that logic it wouldn't be better.

Other people have said good things about MM radial so it would be interesting to test rather than guess by looking at tread patterns.
So many interesting contenders to prioritise. Specialized would be good. I'm also keen to find the widest possible tyre in a full DH/Super soft compound to find how wide is too wide.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Other good front test tires would be the WTB Verdict, the MM Radial & the Vee Attack HPL (which won a Vital shootout).

 

[Plyphon]

No comments to add other than I am loving the commitment to science.

 

[Who’s There]

Your efforts are very much appreciated! I know I’d loose enthusiasm for maintaining the effort required to get repeatable accurate results as performance at 90% vs performance at 100% can vary greatly, I know I like my Butchers as they recover from breaking traction real nicely seemingly on their own before I have the panic response(-;
Also, does swapping wheels cause a negative effect on your braking power? I seem to always loose a measure of bite when wheels are swapped even with identical discs, and the power doesn’t quite come back with repeated bedding in.

 

[RoJo]

Your efforts are very much appreciated! I know I’d loose enthusiasm for maintaining the effort required to get repeatable accurate results as performance at 90% vs performance at 100% can vary greatly, I know I like my Butchers as they recover from breaking traction real nicely seemingly on their own before I have the panic response(-;
Also, does swapping wheels cause a negative effect on your braking power? I seem to always loose a measure of bite when wheels are swapped even with identical discs, and the power doesn’t quite come back with repeated bedding in.

I'm pretty fried after that many laps. Takes 2 batteries, I can only do it outside of busy times and I have to push as consistently as possible. Can't deny it's fun though, otherwise I wouldn't do it. The surprising thing to me is that I can't guess which tyre is quickest until I check the data. Feelings can be very misleading. If a tyre has higher rolling resistance, and you're rolling 1mph slower into the corner, which I can't perceive, it feels epic but only because you're slow in...
I don't notice any brake issues when swapping. Have newish HS2 rotors on both wheels and Semi Metallic pads.

 

[Who’s There]

I can’t quite remember the story exactly but it went something like the rider hated the changes his crew chief made on his road race motorcycle, said something like it was crazy out of control and constantly on the edge or crashing, the crew chief replied “yes,but you were 4 seconds quicker per lap while almost crashing”

 

[fone]

Interesting stuff, thanks for that. I'm on a downer with Maxxis tyres lately, had a bunch of issues with Assegais, High Rollers & DHR's but probably not enough to swallow the radial marketing & pricing just yet & this adds to that line of thought.

What kind of issues?

 

[Who’s There]

Come on WTB, bring these back!

 

[RustyMTB]

What kind of issues?

So far this year, I've had a DHR2 that wept sealant like stigmata around the whole circumference & wouldn't seal without using plugs on minor punctures, I eventually threw that tyre away after a handful of interrupted rides, a High roller that was excessively prone to slashes & an Assegai with a manufacturing defect that leaks around the bead line despite being brand new.

All of them are LBS sourced I.e. not from Ali Express or Ebay, so maybe a run of bad luck but maybe something up with QC.

 

[NZTREKKER]

I've recently gone from the Assegai (Brilliant tyre) to the radial MM and biggest difference I've felt is in the damper conditions is the grip over roots and rock etc are much better than the Assegai.

 

[RoJo]

Hey all
I've kept you waiting a bit too long for this next instalment while I worked on some frame matching tech. Let me know what you think

 

[OffitThatM8]

I always ran MM front and Big Betty rear on my old analog enduro bike, soft, trail casing up front super gravity rear. Loved em went through 3 sets.

Always heard people raving over assegai front/minion dhr rear combo and my eeb came with those so though I'd give them a go, anyway I absolutely ******g hate them lol. Most of what I ride is off piste in woodland and the assegai doesn't grip, it just floats over everything and then breaks traction in actual mud or damp roots, such a vague an unconfident tyre on natural stuff. Certainly feels like it rolls faster on hardpack but was tempted to replace them with a Kortal front Kryptotal rear.

After watching that I might stick with schwalbe again and go for radial instead, thanks for the research science man

 

[Plummet]

I think it would be really hard to differential between tire and rider variance in that small differences in time gap.
When i blast down the same hill multiple times on the same set up I get a slightly different times every time.....

Also how used to a tire grip profile you are could also make a huge difference until you recalibrate into the new tire.

Its an interesting video, but i dont think the data is practically reliable.

 

[RoJo]

I think it would be really hard to differential between tire and rider variance in that small differences in time gap.
When i blast down the same hill multiple times on the same set up I get a slightly different times every time.....

Also how used to a tire grip profile you are could also make a huge difference until you recalibrate into the new tire.

Its an interesting video, but i dont think the data is practically reliable.

Fair comments, and I'm not going to pretend there aren't a bazillion unmentioned caveats. The raw run data looks pretty convincing though (happy to share). If I had to speculate I'd say that DD probably has less rolling resistance which makes it quicker at the start... this could also be measured. Hopefully it's a useful start, even though the conclusions won't be universally applicable.

 

[Plummet]

Fair comments, and I'm not going to pretend there aren't a bazillion unmentioned caveats. The raw run data looks pretty convincing though (happy to share). If I had to speculate I'd say that DD probably has less rolling resistance which makes it quicker at the start... this could also be measured. Hopefully it's a useful start, even though the conclusions won't be universally applicable.

Yeah, so many variables its freaken hard to get statistically significant results. In practical terms i think it doesnt matter unless we are racing at the absolute bleeding edge and points of seconds make the difference.

Interestingly in the last enduro i raced i used less grippy and faster rolling tires and improved my over race time about 1 minute over 18 mins of racing.

Work that one out!.... Less grip = more speed. It was dry, hero dirt conditions with lots of burms. So I guess ultimate grip wasnt as important as rolling speed.

 

[RoJo]

Yeah, so many variables its freaken hard to get statistically significant results. In practical terms i think it doesnt matter unless we are racing at the absolute bleeding edge and points of seconds make the difference.

Interestingly in the last enduro i raced i used less grippy and faster rolling tires and improved my over race time about 1 minute over 18 mins of racing.

Work that one out!.... Less grip = more speed. It was dry, hero dirt conditions with lots of burms. So I guess ultimate grip wasnt as important as rolling speed.

I think that makes a lot of sense. More grip has a double effect on making you feel comfortable through corner. Firstly there is the obvious effect of more grip, but secondly the extra rolling resistance means you enter the corner 1 or 2kph slower, which just makes everything feel easier. You're acutely aware that the corners feel better, but it's probably hard to perceive that you're losing time on the straights.
Here are the full run delta times relative to the fastest lap

 

[doochenozzle]

Interesting stuff, thanks for that. I'm on a downer with Maxxis tyres lately, had a bunch of issues with Assegais, High Rollers & DHR's but probably not enough to swallow the radial marketing & pricing just yet & this adds to that line of thought.

Where do you live that a shwalbe costs more than Maxxis? Just order from Germany.

 

[RustyMTB]

Just order from Germany

If I lived in a place called Dildo, I'd be keeping a lid on my ignorance.