First Shimano Brake Bleed

I like to do a full bleed on my brakes. On most brakes I like to use syringes to push clean fluid both up and down. The funnel method is suitable, I think, because you can still use the lever to push fluid through the system and out the caliper.

I'll explain why I do what I do, but first go pour yourselves a beer. I know it's a lot to ask from you bunch of thirsty mountain bikers, but let your beer sit there in the glass for a couple minutes. Watch the beer. Specifically, watch one of the bubbles that clings to the inside of your beer glass. Some of those little bubbles will stay there a LONG time. Brake fluid is more viscous than beer, and brake hoses are considerably smaller than your beer glass. Expecting gravity to dislodge a bubble that's jammed up inside your brake system is unrealistic thinking.

The next experiment is more for the lever-bleeders. Shake up your bottle of beer and pour all that foam into your glass. Now pour a new beer on into the glass, so the level reaches the top of the rim. Did all the foam and bubbles go away? No? That's why I do a full bleed.

Lastly, look closely at Rod's pictures, specifically the last one. See those little specks of black scrunge in the caliper? A lever bleed lets all that filth stay in the caliper. When you bleed brakes that have been ridden hard and have many hundreds of miles on them, the brake fluid comes out somewhat opaque. This is caused by microscopic particles of black scrunge. The scrunge decreases performance and longevity. A full bleed gets out most of it.
 
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Not sure if mentioned previously, but a trick I learned at S-Tec about 10 years ago was to clean the pistons with isopropanol and a q-tip before resetting them in the caliper, and cutting down a bleed block so you could push one piston out (not completely) at a time to clean them. This help keep the pistons from sticking and contaminating the fluid with fines.
 
Not sure if mentioned previously, but a trick I learned at S-Tec about 10 years ago was to clean the pistons with isopropanol and a q-tip before resetting them in the caliper, and cutting down a bleed block so you could push one piston out (not completely) at a time to clean them. This help keep the pistons from sticking and contaminating the fluid with fines.
Yes I clean the pistons with isopropyl and a Q-tip also. There is a 3D printed block available from 3-Pro (I think) that allows one piston only to extend for cleaning. I have different ones for Magura and Shimano brakes. Good little tool, imo.
 
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Hi guys
I’m gonna piggyback this thread if you don’t mind.
I’ve read this thread and will try the gravity method.

I’ve got saint brakes on the bike and they have always quealled badly. I’ve changed the pads I few times and within a few rides they are load again. I was getting a layer of dirt , oil, something on both sets of brakes and couldn’t work out why. So I’ve bought a piston kit because I can only thinks it’s the seals passing oil.
Onc
 
Hi guys
I’m gonna piggyback this thread if you don’t mind.
I’ve read this thread and will try the gravity method.

I’ve got saint brakes on the bike and they have always quealled badly. I’ve changed the pads I few times and within a few rides they are loud again. I was getting a layer of dirt , oil, something on both sets of brakes and couldn’t work out why and the lever is soft. So I’ve bought a piston kit because I can only thinks it’s the seals passing oil.
Once I’ve fitted the pistons will this method be ok to rebleed??

Thanks
 
Hi guys
I’m gonna piggyback this thread if you don’t mind.
I’ve read this thread and will try the gravity method.

I’ve got saint brakes on the bike and they have always quealled badly. I’ve changed the pads I few times and within a few rides they are loud again. I was getting a layer of dirt , oil, something on both sets of brakes and couldn’t work out why and the lever is soft. So I’ve bought a piston kit because I can only thinks it’s the seals passing oil.
Once I’ve fitted the pistons will this method be ok to rebleed??

Thanks
I think you’re on the right track by replacing the piston(s) and seals on the calliper if you suspect fluid leakage. I would completely re-bleed the system with new fluid (shimano mineral) once you’re satisfied with the calliper rebuild.

Water, or moisture can also accumulate in the calliper thus reducing the effectiveness of the braking.

Brake pad material may also cause some howling. Using different pad material on existing rotors, poor imbedding, bad alignment, foreign debris etc.

My Magura brakes make a howling noise also…but only for a moment when they get wet. That moisture quickly evaporates from the rotor as I apply braking.

Different pad material or different manufacturer of pad material can cause howling. Throughly cleaning, or lightly sanding the rotors can be helpful (600 grit emery cloth).

I’ve seen some riders immediately complain of howling noise when they purchased and replaced pads with the “budget “ brand.

Metallic pads…noisy but good.
Organic pads…quiet but not for racing.
A combination is what use, exclusively, for my type of riding. (Magura Performance). That’s a mid-range pad material. Btw…I’m not a brake doctor. 😢. Some other members probably have much more knowledge or experience than I.
 
Hi
Yeh I’ve changed the rotors and pads to stop the howling!!, cleaned and sanded the pads , rotors, but still it persists!, I’ve never done mtb brakes before but plenty of motorcycles. I think mtb’s are harder to get right😂👍
 
So to update for anyone who’s interested

I changed the pistons this week on the back brake. They were hard to get out of, took a lot of pressure but they hey came out. I’ve just started the bleed process and fluid was leaking from one piston area? I’m going the take the piston out and see if the seal has twisted , I hope it has to be honest!!

The front pistons have arrived today so I’ll change them tomorrow.

IMG_0446.jpeg
Piston near thumb
 
Found two rips in the seals, not enough lube on the seals!
I remember the pistons were hard going in, but as it’s the first time I thought it was normal. Any way both sets of brakes done all pistons moving free.
Banjo seals have arrived, so I’ll build them up and refill this week
IMG_0459.jpeg
 
Castrol red rubber grease is great when installing new piston seals.
The seals should always be lubricated before installing the pistons, use minimal oil at the very least.

Glad you got it sorted 👍
 
So I finally got he bike back together and bled the brakes, no leaks !
I cleaned up the pads I give them hem a try , and….
They are no different 😂🤷‍♂️😩, still howling !

I know it’s the old pads , but they were quite new so I thought I’d give it them a go.

I’ve ordered new pads again!!

Now if the brakes are still howling with these new pads I’m stuck!!
The bike has new disks
Fresh fluid , fresh pads, pistons, seals!

Is it time for a new brakes set???, or is there something I’m missing??🤷‍♂️😂👍
 
So I finally got he bike back together and bled the brakes, no leaks !
I cleaned up the pads I give them hem a try , and….
They are no different 😂🤷‍♂️😩, still howling !

I know it’s the old pads , but they were quite new so I thought I’d give it them a go.

I’ve ordered new pads again!!

Now if the brakes are still howling with these new pads I’m stuck!!
The bike has new disks
Fresh fluid , fresh pads, pistons, seals!

Is it time for a new brakes set???, or is there something I’m missing??🤷‍♂️😂👍
Because the old pads may have contaminated the rotors, thoroughly clean the rotors before fitting the new pads.
 
Cleaned rotors
New pads fitted

Did a lever bleed on both brakes then took for a bed in ride!
There’s no howling at the moment and the disks were clean of oil when I returned. Now I’m not getting to excited yet, but the brakes feel better. The front works ok, but the back still feels a little spongy. A good few bubbles came up on the front brake bleed but non on the back bleed. I had the front wheel in the air to help gravity but still non. Maybe another lever bleed !

IMG_0485.jpeg IMG_0486.jpeg
 
Cleaned rotors
New pads fitted

Did a lever bleed on both brakes then took for a bed in ride!
There’s no howling at the moment and the disks were clean of oil when I returned. Now I’m not getting to excited yet, but the brakes feel better. The front works ok, but the back still feels a little spongy. A good few bubbles came up on the front brake bleed but non on the back bleed. I had the front wheel in the air to help gravity but still non. Maybe another lever bleed !

View attachment 162608 View attachment 162609
Sometimes, going for a short bumpy ride is enough to free up any trapped air bubbles. Try a second lever bleed.

If that doesn’t work, moisture may have collected in the calliper. If that’s the case then a gravity bleed may be necessary.

This is for mineral oil brake systems.
 
I saw a thread showing a guy using a message gun to remove air from his brake lines, I thought it was total bs but out of curiosity I gave it a try, it was unbelievable how much air it got out!

I did my usual gravity bleed, then worked the gun up the brake lines for a few minutes, now the brakes are solid.

Xt's need regular bleeding to maintain performance, I've read they let she in through the stroke adjustment, which seems to be the case for mine.
 
When doing the lever bleed , do I have to mess with the free play screw at all?

Yes, unscrew the free stroke screw a few turns, also makes sure the pistons are pushed all the way into the calipers. Lubricate the pistons before installing your brake pads
 
Did another lever bleed on the bike
The front is good
The back did get some bubbles out but it still feels a bit soft.

Both brakes are squeaky again though?,

No leaks!

Happy with the front except for the honk!😂

I’ll try full bleed on the back again
 
So
I spoke to a guy on who was into the bikes and told him my problem . He had a go at dinner. Ride up and down the road with he brakes on a bit until the disks were hot and the brakes started to work better and the noise was gone!
They feel not to bad now, bike actually stops!😂👍
 
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