Does anyone else ride in "off" mode?

[Tamas]

Why do people make so much about the weight of the bike, rather than the person?
All in, I am 90kg INCLUDING bike. I know there is usable weight etc, but lets be honest most people are carrying extra fat, which is fairly useless in generating power.

With that in mind, do you think a 25+65 combo reacts differently from a 20+70 combo?

The weight of the bike affects the handling but the total weight counts for the range so 25+65 and 20+70 should be the same.

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

I use Garmin Edge 1000 when I need mapping and Garmin Fenix 3 when I don't.

Nice one! I think I'll get something like that for the upcoming adventures, will help plan things a bit better, appreciate that

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

The weight of the bike affects the handling but the total weight counts for the range so 25+65 and 20+70 should be the same.

I do mean in terms of handling though, I still argue that 20-25 feel basically the same, its not like we're talking 25kg v 6kg where you can obviously feel the difference.

Also, would strength come into how playful and lively a bike feels? If you are stronger does that level the playing field a bit, as in a stronger person on a heavier bike would have a similar experience to a weaker person on a lighter bike in terms of manoeuvrability

 

[Tamas]

I do mean in terms of handling though, I still argue that 20-25 feel basically the same, its not like we're talking 25kg v 6kg where you can obviously feel the difference.

Also, would strength come into how playful and lively a bike feels? If you are stronger does that level the playing field a bit, as in a stronger person on a heavier bike would have a similar experience to a weaker person on a lighter bike in terms of manoeuvrability

I think there is a noticeable difference between the handling of a 20kg vs 25kg bike but obviously not as much as a 25kg vs 13kg (if we are talking about mountain bikes).

Absolutely, strength counts a lot regardless of what bike you are riding but even more when you need to muscle around a 25kg bike.

 

[Gary]

I still argue that 20-25 feel basically the same

No it most certainly doesn't
That's 11lb difference. it makes a massive difference to handling when throwing the bike around, popping, playful riding and styling the bike.

The fact that you're even asking this speaks volumes;

Also, would strength come into how playful and lively a bike feels? If you are stronger does that level the playing field a bit, as in a stronger person on a heavier bike would have a similar experience to a weaker person on a lighter bike in terms of manoeuvrability

Well.. yes, Obviously if you think about it the stronger you are the easier anything physical is going to be. Strength comes into play when styling, popping, pumping and maneouvering all bikes but maybe not how you think. There's not really such thing as a weak stylish bike rider but their strength is bike skill specific and they usually have a very good strength to weight ratio rather than having to be some frekish roid hulk. It's better to be light, lean and felexible to make stylish maneovers, most of the most stylish riders are. They're also conditioned by muscle memory and have way more all round fast twitch/explosive power (I'm not talking about sprinting power) for their weight than most non playful riders do.
Go to your local skatepark/pump track and watch the most stylish guys ride if you want to see for yourself what I'm talking about.
They'll more than likely be riding bikes in the 25-30lb weight bracket.Have a think what adding 11lb would do to their handling. Now why would you think it wouldn't be a factor in a 47lb* bike's handling?

(*my Ebike's weight)

 

[PeteIOM]

Why do people make so much about the weight of the bike, rather than the person?
All in, I am 90kg INCLUDING bike. I know there is usable weight etc, but lets be honest most people are carrying extra fat, which is fairly useless in generating power.

With that in mind, do you think a 25+65 combo reacts differently from a 20+70 combo?

If I took the weight guidelines seriously I'd not be riding any bike.

Me and bike combined is probably 150kg.. sure I'll wear everything out quicker and probs can't hit those landings as hard but its not stopping me. 1k miles in and everything is ok... loving it and it'll get better as I get lighter

 

[MRe]

Almost never. But I have readjusted my assist levels with eMax-app to even lower than what Shimano lets you to do.

Current assist levels (Shimano E8000 / Merida eOneTwenty) are:
Mode..Max torq/Max assist
ECO ... 30 Nm / 30%
TRAIL . 70 Nm / 50%
BOOST 70 Nm / 120%

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

No it most certainly doesn't
That's 11lb difference. it makes a massive difference to handling when throwing the bike around, popping, playful riding and styling the bike.

The fact that you're even asking this speaks volumes;

Well.. yes, Obviously if you think about it the stronger you are the easier anything physical is going to be. Strength comes into play when styling, popping, pumping and maneouvering all bikes but maybe not how you think. There's not really such thing as a weak stylish bike rider but their strength is bike skill specific and they usually have a very good strength to weight ratio rather than having to be some frekish roid hulk. It's better to be light, lean and felexible to make stylish maneovers, most of the most stylish riders are. They're also conditioned by muscle memory and have way more all round fast twitch/explosive power (I'm not talking about sprinting power) for their weight than most non playful riders do.
Go to your local skatepark/pump track and watch the most stylish guys ride if you want to see for yourself what I'm talking about.
They'll more than likely be riding bikes in the 25-30lb weight bracket.Have a think what adding 11lb would do to their handling. Now why would you think it wouldn't be a factor in a 47lb* bike's handling?

(*my Ebike's weight)

Short answer, is because it represents less % increase.

Adding 11lbs to a bike weighing 25lbs is 50%
Adding 11lbs to a bike weighing 50lbs is 25%

approx*

And, on the strength front, if 200kg is where you start feeling things as being "heavy and hard to move" then i'd argue that you'd not feel any difference in the handling of a 20/25kg bike, whereas if you consider 20-25kg to be a heavy object, then maybe you'd notice it more?


My point being is that, too much is made about bike weight and not enough other factors taken into account, its interesting to see what others think

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

Almost never. But I have readjusted my assist levels with eMax-app to even lower than what Shimano lets you to do.

Current assist levels (Shimano E8000 / Merida eOneTwenty) are:
Mode..Max torq/Max assist
ECO ... 30 Nm / 30%
TRAIL . 70 Nm / 50%
BOOST 70 Nm / 120%

That is something missing from our lovely bosch systems imo... I'd love to be able to alter the assist levels, i'd probably half the eco assistance and use it 100% as the 'commuter" mode

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

Still, as I said originally, all this goes out the window when battery no2 arrives and I just go everywhere in emtb with a massive smile on my face, completely ignoring/forgetting all the things I've said in favour of riding in off, I am a hypocrite if nothing else :-D

 

[Gary]

Short answer, is because it represents less % increase.

Adding 11lbs to a bike weighing 25lbs is 50%
Adding 11lbs to a bike weighing 50lbs is 25%

approx*

And, on the strength front, if 200kg is where you start feeling things as being "heavy and hard to move" then i'd argue that you'd not feel any difference in the handling of a 20/25kg bike, whereas if you consider 20-25kg to be a heavy object, then maybe you'd notice it more?


My point being is that, too much is made about bike weight and not enough other factors taken into account, its interesting to see what others think

I'm not really argueing. I'm simply stating facts so there's no need to start using bizarre ficticous numerically based theories and percentages to back up your "arguement". We're talking about bike handling traits here not discussing a 4th year Arithmetic prelim question.

I have a question for you;
Can you table your 25kg bike in the air to both sides? ie. opposite and regular?
If so, can you go out and try hitting a jump and doing both in the same air on your 25kg bike?.
If not, how about simply transferring the bike from one berm to another in the air? (Similar hip and shoulder movements required, although to a far lesser extent as you have the push from the first berm to help).
Now do you think it'll feel doing the same on a 5kg lighter bike?
I'll cut to the chase.
The answer is it is it takes noticeably less effort on the lighter bike.

If none of that's important to you fine but the tried and proven fact that weight does matter still stands.

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

Haha, I wasn't arguing either, but you seem to have a knack for it.

Thanks for 100% ignoring the actual maths and focused on anecdotes

I just think people place too much emphasis on tiny amounts when you can overcome any minor weight difference by being stronger.

Loads of guys who are 120kg with noodle arms applying the same logic as a fit and strong rider.

 

[steve_sordy]

Whether you are stronger or not, more skilful or not, you will notice a bike that is 5kg lighter.

If that weight was all in the wheels you would notice it even more! (well, at 5kg, the wheels probably wouldn't actually be there, but you know what I mean).

 

[Gary]

anecdotes

I was quoting my actual experience not fag packet theory

I just think people place too much emphasis on tiny amounts when you can overcome any minor weight difference by being stronger.

Loads of guys who are 120kg with noodle arms applying the same logic as a fit and strong rider.

WUT ???

 

[Gofurtherfaster]

Also... Gary..

Riding a pump track on a light bike then adding a bunch of weight

I was quoting my actual experience not fag packet theory

WUT ???

If you think facts like 50% is larger than 25% is "fag packet theory" then I can't even take anything you say seriously.

 

[R120]

Why do people make so much about the weight of the bike, rather than the person?
All in, I am 90kg INCLUDING bike. I know there is usable weight etc, but lets be honest most people are carrying extra fat, which is fairly useless in generating power.

With that in mind, do you think a 25+65 combo reacts differently from a 20+70 combo?

Obviously rider weight has the biggest effect on range, a lighter rider will go further than a heavier one - however that's irrelevant to the owner of a bike, simply because they are who they are and weigh what they weigh. Lighter bike then becomes the relevant measurement, so if you are looking at for example two Shimano Steps motored bikes, then the one weight closer to 20kg is going to get a fair bit more range than the one weighing 24kg.

As Gary says, then it comes down to choice of equipment and personal preference, but you can equip your bike with lower rolling resistance tyres and fiddle with the gearing to maximise you cadence to the optimum of the motor, and you will get more range, but then you might also end up with a bike ill suited to the riding you want to do.

If you want your eyes opened to what an EMTB might be like in a few years, try and test a BMC Alpenchallenge Cross - this is basically a flat bar gravel bike with the Shimano E8000 system, and weighs in at under 15kg - now obviously its not an EMTB, but its not dissimilar to a fully rigid MTB, and it feels so like a normal bike to throw around and piss about on, you hardly notice the cut off point of the motor, and its a lot fo fun to ride. The reduced weight also means you are looking at a lot more range.

When they get EMTB's down to this kind of weigh we will really be talking party time.

 

[R120]

And seriously, there is no way any experienced rider would not notice the benefits of riding lighter bike - I am no weight weenie and with normal bikes a kg here or there won't put me off a bike, but emtb's are heavy bikes, with some EMTB's coming in at 8-10kg heavier than the non motorised equivalents in manufacturers ranges. If I ride a Kenevo, which comes in at 24kg, then hop on my Vitus at 21 and a bit KG, then the Vitus feels like a feather weight to fling around.

As important as actual weight, is where the weight is on the bike - and that is one of the less talked about issues with EMTB's - if you have a battery that extends far up the downtube, its placing weight further forward and higher up on the bike, not just because of the battery, but because of the reinforcement to the downtube in the areas the battery sits too. Makes a hell of a difference to manuals and popping over stuff.

One things for sure, if you spend a year riding hard on a current EMTB you dont need to be pushing weights, manhandling 20 plus KG around will do a lot for you.

 

[Standingwaves]

How do you all calculate your elevation? What do you use

Strava

 

[Welshman]

Obviously rider weight has the biggest effect on range, a lighter rider will go further than a heavier one - however that's irrelevant to the owner of a bike, simply because they are who they are and weigh what they weigh. Lighter bike then becomes the relevant measurement, so if you are looking at for example two Shimano Steps motored bikes, then the one weight closer to 20kg is going to get a fair bit more range than the one weighing 24kg.

As Gary says, then it comes down to choice of equipment and personal preference, but you can equip your bike with lower rolling resistance tyres and fiddle with the gearing to maximise you cadence to the optimum of the motor, and you will get more range, but then you might also end up with a bike ill suited to the riding you want to do.

If you want your eyes opened to what an EMTB might be like in a few years, try and test a BMC Alpenchallenge Cross - this is basically a flat bar gravel bike with the Shimano E8000 system, and weighs in at under 15kg - now obviously its not an EMTB, but its not dissimilar to a fully rigid MTB, and it feels so like a normal bike to throw around and piss about on, you hardly notice the cut off point of the motor, and its a lot fo fun to ride. The reduced weight also means you are looking at a lot more range.

When they get EMTB's down to this kind of weigh we will really be talking party time.

View attachment 9552

This is similar to what I did to my 1st cube acid that I commute on. I whipped off the suntour forks and added 29er carbon forks, fitted 11sp tubeless wheels with Schwalbe tubeless thunder Burt tyres and Shimano di2... the speed and range with the set-up feels so much more like riding a normal bike...

Compare that to my winter cube acid with Fox 32 ctd forks and rapid rob tyres and it’s a night and day difference in speed and range with the same battery

 

[Swissrob]

Well... er... not exactly impossible...




Believe it or not I don't actually have a backpack. In 30 years of mtbing I've never owned one. I'd rather not ride at all than ride wearing one.

Vegan MTBiking! ???
I don't see the point of running with it off but only use higher levels to get where I want to ride and then eco mode through the forest. I think the variety of opinions here is great to give us new ideas of doing the same stuff differently.

 

[Mr CRUD]

Does anybody else just ride in 'Boost"????

 

[Lee67]

All my rides are in off and eco.. occasionally use eco+.... never used top settings , and i ride in the peaks too, fitness has a big bearing on this tho.. and crucially this explains why i can get 70 mile range

 

[steve_sordy]

Does anybody else just ride in 'Boost"????

I gave my 11 -year old grandson a half hour on the bike and he pushed it straight into Boost and left it there. He was whooping and hollering the whole time!

But I don't. I've not done many miles on the bike yet, so I don't have a good feel for how far I can go riding "normally", so I tend to stay in the lower levels, only moving up when my knees start to feel the strain.

 

[Tzeveryn]

Out riding

How about:
Improving battery range.
Improving strength fitness
Simply to warming up at the beginning of a ride or after a stop.
It also makes a lot of sense when riding with others on regular bikes (depending on fitness obvs).
It just makes sense to me not to use it when I really don't need to.
But TBH there doesn't have to be an advantage. It's just personal preference.
It's definitly a more pure/direct feeling riding switched off when you're fresh. Not so much when you're knackered or if you're running big super draggy tyres.
I still prefer the handling of regular bikes over Ebikes though despite Ebikes being faster.

Yeah...there does not need to be an advantage..just get out there and have fun!

 

[Tamas]

Does anybody else just ride in 'Boost"????

I don’t... Eco on asphalt and Trail off-road. I like the ‘natural’ feel. Boost is too aggressive on the E8000 it’s mostly reserved for friends when they want to try the bike. Sometimes when I get completely exhausted on a ride I use Boost on the way home.

 

[Darcy]

I find myself turning the bike off more and more now the ground is a little harder and there is less rolling resistance. I live about 6 miles from the woods where there are quite a few trails so at the moment I try to ride the entire trip there without using any battery; after a few mins you get used to going quite a bit slower imo, and then when you finally turn it back on again, even ECO feels incredible..

Still want a 2nd battery so I can just nail emtb mode 24/7 mind you.

Anyone else do the same?

 

[Darcy]

Yep i turn off when riding on the flats and its true you get used to it and save lots if power. Mine is a carbon levo so that helps a lot. Like the challenge of seeing how low I can get the support

 

[MRe]

Does anybody else just ride in 'Boost"????

Almost never. Only for steep climbs which I wouldn't otherwise manage. Boost has so unnatural feeling to ride that I do not really like it. Even when I've set Boost to lower setting as what Shimano provides.

 

[softtailcruiser]

I have started communting. 27 mile round trip. Only done it twice, once on a test ride bike and once on my new EMTB.

I use turbo on the way there, and arrive pretty fresh as we have no shower and I like my colleagues!

On the way home it is Eco all the way, on mainly bike paths and canal towpaths, pretty flat, and I take a longer route of about 15 miles.

Having the choice works for me! Pounds are starting to be shed!

 

[khorn]

Never!! If no assist I take my ordinary mtb.

Karsten