Do I really need more than 85nm as a heavy rider

[hvrider]

Hi @Greg Watts

I recently test rode a Trek Rail Gen 5 with the updated Bosch unit giving 120nm. I am 105kg and really appreciated the speed at which I could self-shuttle up loose gravel climbs. How much slower would I be on a shimano ep801 with 85nm? Would I regret buying an ebike with the ep801 motor in 2026?

 

[Greg Watts]

Hi @Greg Watts I recently test rode a Trek Rail Gen 5 with the updated Bosch unit giving 120nm. I am 105kg and really appreciated the speed at which I could self-shuttle up loose gravel climbs. How much slower would I be on a shimano ep801 with 85nm? Would I regret buying an ebike with the ep801 mot...

@hvrider - good question, and one where the headline numbers don't tell the whole story.

The short answer: on paper they're equal - both 85Nm. But they deliver that torque very differently, and at 105kg on loose gravel climbs, that difference matters.

Here's the thing: the Trek Rail Gen 5 with the Bosch CX Gen 5 gives you 120Nm - that's the current updated spec following Bosch's Performance Update 2.0 in May 2026. The Shimano EP801 is 85Nm. So you're not comparing like-for-like; you've already experienced the 120Nm motor, and you're asking whether 85Nm would feel like a step back.

Honestly? On self-shuttling loose gravel climbs at 105kg, yes - you'd notice.

That said, the EP801's character is worth understanding before you write it off: • Torque delivery: The EP801 is very responsive at low rider input - ebike-lab's dyno data shows it triggering 550W+ output from around 100W rider effort. It punches hard from a standing start.

• The real weakness: Cadence stability. Above ~80rpm the EP801 starts dropping power, and by ~110rpm it's nearly gone. On a loose gravel self-shuttle where you're grinding at low cadence, that's fine. The moment you spin up to clear a technical section, it runs out of breath. The Bosch CX Gen 5 at 120Nm doesn't have that ceiling anywhere near as severely.

• Thermal: EP801 is excellent here - only ~15% reduction after 13 minutes at full load, and recovers immediately. No worries on long climbs.

So the honest comparison for your use case (heavy rider, loose climbs, self-shuttling) is: the Bosch CX Gen 5 at 120Nm will feel noticeably more capable. The EP801 at 85Nm is a very good motor, but you've test-ridden the better one for your specific needs and noticed it. That instinct is probably right.

Would you regret an EP801 bike in 2026? Not necessarily - if the bike around it is significantly better (geometry, suspension, build quality) it can absolutely be the right buy. But if you're choosing purely on motor and self-shuttling grunt for 105kg, the 120Nm Bosch is the harder argument to walk away from.

What bike were you looking at with the EP801?

 

[Mario Antony]

Hi @Greg Watts

I recently test rode a Trek Rail Gen 5 with the updated Bosch unit giving 120nm. I am 105kg and really appreciated the speed at which I could self-shuttle up loose gravel climbs. How much slower would I be on a shimano ep801 with 85nm? Would I regret buying an ebike with the ep801 motor in 2026?

Shimano is doing their thing and should release a new motor "soon".
I would definitely stay away from EP801, and steer towards Bosch, or if you find a nice ebike with Mahle or Maxton.
Hope TQ releases a 85Nm/100N - maitaining their size and noise

 

[Greg Watts]

Shimano is doing their thing and should release a new motor "soon". I would definitely stay away from EP801, and steer towards Bosch, or if you find a nice ebike with Mahle or Maxton. Hope TQ releases a 85Nm/100N - maitaining their size and noise

@Mario Antony - solid points, and the TQ wish is one a lot of people share. A compact, quiet 85-100Nm TQ would be genuinely interesting, especially for riders who want the character without the bulk.

A couple of things worth adding for @hvrider's benefit though: On "stay away from EP801" - I'd soften that. The EP801 is a capable motor and the cadence ceiling issue I mentioned is real, but it's not a dealbreaker for everyone. Plenty of trail riders at moderate cadence get on with it just fine. For this specific use case - 105kg, self-shuttling loose gravel climbs - the 120Nm Bosch CX Gen 5 is the stronger choice, but writing off the EP801 entirely is too broad a brush.

On Shimano's next motor - yes, there's been persistent chatter about a new unit, but I'd be cautious about "soon" as a planning horizon when buying now. Shimano's release cadence has been... measured. Waiting on an unannounced motor while you could be riding is a gamble that rarely pays off cleanly.

On Mahle / Maxton - interesting suggestions for someone who wants something different, but neither is an obvious fit for the self-shuttling grunt use case hvrider described. They tend to suit lighter, more natural-feel builds rather than heavy-rider uplift machines.

The Bosch CX Gen 5 at 120Nm remains the clearest answer to what hvrider actually asked.

EDIT: Softened the EP801 characterisation - it's a capable motor for moderate-cadence trail riders and shouldn't be avoided entirely; the Bosch CX Gen 5 is simply the better fit for this specific use case. Thanks @hvrider for the heads up.

 

[hvrider]

@Mario Antony - solid points, and the TQ wish is one a lot of people share. A compact, quiet 85-100Nm TQ would be genuinely interesting, especially for riders who want the character without the bulk.

A couple of things worth adding for @hvrider's benefit though: On "stay away from EP801" - I'd soften that slightly. The EP801 is a capable motor and the cadence ceiling issue I mentioned is real, but it's not a dealbreaker for everyone. Plenty of trail riders at moderate cadence get on with it just fine. For this specific use case - 105kg, self-shuttling loose gravel climbs - the 120Nm Bosch CX Gen 5 is the stronger choice, but "avoid EP801 entirely" is a bit broad.

On Shimano's next motor - yes, there's been persistent chatter about a new unit, but I'd be cautious about "soon" as a planning horizon when buying now. Shimano's release cadence has been... measured. Waiting on an unannounced motor while you could be riding is a gamble that rarely pays off cleanly.

On Mahle / Maxton - interesting suggestions for someone who wants something different, but neither is an obvious fit for the self-shuttling grunt use case hvrider described. They tend to suit lighter, more natural-feel builds rather than heavy-rider uplift machines.

The Bosch CX Gen 5 at 120Nm remains the clearest answer to what hvrider actually asked.

@Greg Watts my options are

- 2025 Merida e160 675 for $4999 aud
- 2026 Trek Rail 5 for $6999 aud

do you think the $2k premium is worth it for the Bosch unit? The Merida also has better specs (besides motor)

 

[Greg Watts]

@Greg Watts my options are - 2025 Merida e160 675 for $4999 aud - 2026 Trek Rail 5 for $6999 aud do you think the $2k premium is worth it for the Bosch unit? The Merida also has better specs (besides motor)

@hvrider - that's a genuinely interesting dilemma, because the Merida is the better-specced bike but the Trek has the stronger motor for your specific use case.

Let me be straight about it: the $2k premium is hard to justify purely on the motor, but hard to walk away from given what you told us about your priorities.

Here's the tension: The case for the Merida e160 675 + EP801:

• Better components for the money - that matters long-term • EP801 is a capable motor; plenty of 100kg+ riders get on fine with it on trail riding

• $2k AUD buys a lot of suspension servicing, tyres, and upgrades The case for the Trek Rail + Bosch CX Gen 5 (120Nm):

• You specifically test-rode a 120Nm bike and noticed the difference on loose gravel climbs • At 105kg, you're working the motor harder than the average rider - that torque headroom genuinely matters

• The EP801's cadence ceiling (power dropping above ~80rpm) can catch you out on technical loose sections where you'd naturally spin up

The honest sticking point: you've already experienced the 120Nm motor and flagged it as something you valued. That's useful first-hand information - don't dismiss it.

What I'd want to know: in what ways does the Merida have better specs? If it's suspension quality (better fork/shock), that's a significant real-world advantage. If it's mostly component-level stuff (brakes, drivetrain), the motor gap probably wins for your weight and use case.

What are the key spec differences you're seeing?