DJI Just Unlocked 1000W. What Now?

[xtraman122]

Everyone familiar with the LMX bikes? Really cool design and tech, but those get into the territory I think everyone can agree would cross the line for some trail systems, or at least where even I, who mostly think these limits and rules are silly, would say “okay yeah, that thing probably could be dangerous on the same paths as people hiking or cause a little more wear on the trails than a normal bike”.

Those are 2500W capable and have a throttle. So yes, there probably should be some upper limit on peak power or assistance, but it seems like debating between 600, 750, or 1000 watts doesn’t make that much of a difference.

 

[Winford]

600, 750, or 1000 watts doesn’t make that much of a difference.

That is correct, just a bunch of slow karens whining about their dress not fitting right.

I ride a lot, I like the power, 1000w is nothing to whine about or complain. If you do complain, you are slow or live in the flat lands.

You get on a motorcycle track, its never about power, the Japanese 400s will pass the fastest BMWs and Ducatis made because its not about the bike, its about the pilots skill. Bunch of people here do not have any.

 

[Winford]

Specialized should rethink this strategy.

I live in the city/country where Specialized does their research and development. They know the fast riders are already riding unlocked bikes. So why not join the fast crowd? So they did, and it is working. For the better.

Here we have very few restrictions, the trails are hard enough, and everyone already rides fast unlocked without worry. Skill is required. Only near the big liberal cities in the bay area do you see the battle between ebike restrictions and manual places to ride, which have NOTHING to do with the bikes power. Out here in the country, it is you against the country. Old west style. Specialized hit a home run!

What I hear from many here, is whiny city karens, want to impose their slow riding on the rest of the world.

Specialized and Amflow will do fine without all your crying karens chiming in.

If you have not figured out, a lot of crying is from manufacturers on the losing end of the stick who will have to sell their slow bikes cheaper now.

 

[irie]

That is correct, just a bunch of slow karens whining about their dress not fitting right.

I ride a lot, I like the power, 1000w is nothing to whine about or complain. If you do complain, you are slow or live in the flat lands.

You get on a motorcycle track, its never about power, the Japanese 400s will pass the fastest BMWs and Ducatis made because its not about the bike, its about the pilots skill. Bunch of people here do not have any.

Everybody has a right to their opinions on this forum - if you listened to those you disagree with rather than dismissing them as "karens", or whatever your preferred derogatory term is, you would most certainly find that they have valid points which are worth considering.

 

[Maxi]

Here we have very few restrictions, the trails are hard enough, and everyone already rides fast unlocked without worry. Skill is required. Only near the big liberal cities in the bay area do you see the battle between ebike restrictions and manual places to ride, which have NOTHING to do with the bikes power. Out here in the country, it is you against the country. Old west style. Specialized hit a home run!

Different countries have different challenges. In the UK, we generally have 2 'classes' of e-bikes;
1 - 'off the shelf' eMTB that have a peak power & speed restrictions (not getting into the 750W Vs 1000W discussion)
2 - self converted bikes that have throttles, up to 3000W, no speed restrictions (e.g. 3000W, 50mph)

Unfortunately, many people don't see the difference and when they are buzzed by an Uber delivery rider in a city centre doing 20mph uphill without pedalling, that sets their view of what an e-bike is.

Personally, I have no need for more than my Bosch gen 4 gives me - would 1000W peak be nice? Well yes (for the 1% of my riding time that I would use it) - my current split is 2% Turbo, 58% eMTB & 40% Tour+ (don't use Eco). Would 30mph be good, not sure as most of my riding isn't restricted by speed - more about terrain and/or lack of fitness !

It would be easier just to set a blanket ban of no e-bikes on trails / bridleway than to remove the illegal bikes that have become pervasive in cities.

 

[RickBullotta]

It's pretty stupid to mention a 1000w in the same breath as a SurRon. It's the type of thing anti-ebike activists do. A 1000w motor is 25% more powerful than the most popular e-bike motors. A SurRon is like 12-18x more powerful than an Avinox.

It's metaphorical

 

[luna87824]

Different countries have different challenges. In the UK, we generally have 2 'classes' of e-bikes;
1 - 'off the shelf' eMTB that have a peak power & speed restrictions (not getting into the 750W Vs 1000W discussion)
2 - self converted bikes that have throttles, up to 3000W, no speed restrictions (e.g. 3000W, 50mph)

Unfortunately, many people don't see the difference and when they are buzzed by an Uber delivery rider in a city centre doing 20mph uphill without pedalling, that sets their view of what an e-bike is.

Personally, I have no need for more than my Bosch gen 4 gives me - would 1000W peak be nice? Well yes (for the 1% of my riding time that I would use it) - my current split is 2% Turbo, 58% eMTB & 40% Tour+ (don't use Eco). Would 30mph be good, not sure as most of my riding isn't restricted by speed - more about terrain and/or lack of fitness !

It would be easier just to set a blanket ban of no e-bikes on trails / bridleway than to remove the illegal bikes that have become pervasive in cities.

It takes a special type of person, to be happy with a $10,000 pedal assist bike that has a top speed limit of only 15 mph!

 

[Emailsucks98]

I don't think it's useful to stereotype it as a "City" issue. Look at Vancouver BC.
It's a big city, probably some Karen's. No lack of world class riding & riders. eBikes on multi-use trails, trails getting shut down, product development happening locally - all those things, definitely.
There's some friction but people coexist.
As a Canadian recently said to me, There's good people everywhere.

Also, population is not decreasing. Those that don't have city problems now, give it a few years.

 

[irie]

It takes a special type of person, to be happy with a $10,000 pedal assist bike that has a top speed limit of only 15 mph!

Obviously depends on what that person is using the bike for.

 

[Fangs2k]

It takes a special type of person, to be happy with a $10,000 pedal assist bike that has a top speed limit of only 15 mph!

If they purchased it knowing that’s what the assist limit was, why is it a problem?

Why are so many people buying e-bikes and then complaining about something they’re not meant to be?

Whatever the regulations and assist limit in your respective country, it is what it is, nobody is being forced to buy anything.

 

[DirkWisely]

I really hope all these people constantly complaining about the speed limit just happen to have a lot of fire roads to get to their trails. I'd hate to think these are people that bought a full suspension mountain bike to ride on relatively flat wide footpaths or something.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

I really hope all these people constantly complaining about the speed limit just happen to have a lot of fire roads to get to their trails. I'd hate to think these are people that bought a full suspension mountain bike to ride on relatively flat wide footpaths or something.

Actually - on that.
I have a bike path that goes alongside the motorway near home - it's about 5km long at present.
I ride it occasionally, if I have a need to get on the bike but not the time to get to the forest.
I see older people on long-travel eMTB's with racks and kickstands on that path all the time.
There's a retirement village nearby and they go on group rides and between them I'd say they are 50/50 commuter eBikes and "proper" eMTB's.
Hurts my heart to see well engineered full-fat long-travel eMTB's being used for nothing more than a flat tootle around the block.

 

[LeftItLancs]

It's fairly obvious from these threads that a regulated EAPC market can never be all things to all riders, mainly due to current restrictions on the use of public land (or private), irrespective of whether it is 1,000 watts peak power on a 250 watt motor or not.

The 'Karen' argument is totally irrelevant compared to the bigger picture, ensuring that ALL riders, regardless of skill level, riding style, or the specific type of ebike they ride, continue to have fair and reasonable access to trails, paths, and other shared spaces.

Rather than getting caught up in a contentious debate over restrictions or individual preferences, the focus really should be on maintaining and improving infrastructure so that it encourages wider participation and inclusivity rather than exclusivity.

 

[Gavalar]

Personally I think the clever money will continue to invest in and adopt Bosch, they have proven to be the system to beat, the new updates and the launch of the CX-R later in the year firmly keeps them at number one, warranty, service network, and excellent integration have attracted many manufacturers to adopt their systems as OE which in-turn has resulted in growing sales as customers have confidence in aftersales warranty and system updates.
Ultimately it comes down to personal choice and what tickles your pickle, I for one still look at the complete package, the aesthetics of the bike, components etc, if a manufacturer can't wow me with these then I'll look elsewhere regardless of the motor on offer as there's more to a bike and cycling than, in the manner of Jeremy Clarkson, "more power!"

 

[Biano44]

Personally I think the clever money will continue to invest in and adopt Bosch, they have proven to be the system to beat, the new updates and the launch of the CX-R later in the year firmly keeps them at number one, warranty, service network, and excellent integration have attracted many manufacturers to adopt their systems as OE which in-turn has resulted in growing sales as customers have confidence in aftersales warranty and system updates.
Ultimately it comes down to personal choice and what tickles your pickle, I for one still look at the complete package, the aesthetics of the bike, components etc, if a manufacturer can't wow me with these then I'll look elsewhere regardless of the motor on offer as there's more to a bike and cycling than, in the manner of Jeremy Clarkson, "more power!"

The 2nd paragraph is confusing for me.
In the 1st paragraph you suggest Bosch is still the leader and yet in the 2nd paragraph, the reasons to choose a motor/bike combo are in direct conflict as the Bosch system is bigger, heavier, uglier? and seldom few manufacturers who use them have bikes with great aesthetics.

 

[Gavalar]

The 2nd paragraph is confusing for me.
In the 1st paragraph you suggest Bosch is still the leader and yet in the 2nd paragraph, the reasons to choose a motor/bike combo are in direct conflict as the Bosch system is bigger, heavier, uglier? and seldom few manufacturers who use them have bikes with great aesthetics.

And I stand by that the smart money is on Bosch, I didn't say that I have Bosch powered bikes, quite the opposite, I have Shimano EP801 powered bikes, Yeti and Pivot as the Integration and aesthetics of the bikes are what appeals to me, if the Integration of the Bosch motor was as attractive as Shimano then I may have bought differently, the Bosch system is still the market leader but designers and bike companies need to work on better Integration, unless Shimano step up to the plate and bring something that is able to compete then I may have to compromise on my next purchase, or not.

 

[Biano44]

And I stand by that the smart money is on Bosch, I didn't say that I have Bosch powered bikes, quite the opposite, I have Shimano EP801 powered bikes, Yeti and Pivot as the Integration and aesthetics of the bikes are what appeals to me, if the Integration of the Bosch motor was as attractive as Shimano then I may have bought differently, the Bosch system is still the market leader but designers and bike companies need to work on better Integration, unless Shimano step up to the plate and bring something that is able to compete then I may have to compromise on my next purchase, or not.

Well, now I’m even more confused as my personal experience with Shimano is tainted.
Search for the E8000 system on their website and you will find nothing, like it never existed; try and find a Shimano service centre in the UK - just one (good) company in the Lake District would touch it.
As you say, Bosch would have been easy to service, Specialized also have a great reputation and I have to say from what I’ve witnessed the DJI crew seem happy enough.

 

[Gavalar]

Well, now I’m even more confused as my personal experience with Shimano is tainted.
Search for the E8000 system on their website and you will find nothing, like it never existed; try and find a Shimano service centre in the UK - just one (good) company in the Lake District would touch it.
As you say, Bosch would have been easy to service, Specialized also have a great reputation and I have to say from what I’ve witnessed the DJI crew seem happy enough.

Shimano are where Specialized/Brose were 5 years ago, the whipping boy of the motor world but 2 plus years on the EP801 and not even an error code, I'm within 10 minutes of 2 local Shimano service centres, granted they won't be stripping any motor, £650 for a replacement EP801, should it fail but for battery and motor diagnostic checks they work for me, if we all wait for the supposed next best thing then we wouldn't buy anything, at some point you make your choice and pay your money, Shimano will I'm sure bring something new to the party, Specialized/ Brose will continue to replace motors under warranty, my brother has had 3 on a 2 year old bike, and DJI will be most peoples unicorn for the present, and that's what makes it all both interesting and irrelevant at the same time as all this craving for more power only succeeds in making what is already available obsolete, or for those of us that don't crave "more power", affordable.

 

[Chairman]

Drones are now heavily regulated here in the UK, Europe and large parts of the rest of the world.

Not DJIs fault, but the proliferation of them including faster, heavier, longer range drones (sound familiar) led the aviation regulators to do something to try and keep a lid on it.

Now, here in the UK and elsewhere you can’t fly anything with a camera on it without passing an online test, applying and paying for an Operator and/or Flyer ID. Heavier stuff is even more tightly regulated.

I’m sure many ignore the regs, and law breakers don’t care what the law says anyway, but it’s created a barrier to taking up the hobby that didn’t exist before.

Further than that, model aircraft enthusiasts who had been happily flying incident free for many decades individually or in clubs were suddenly hit with the same compliance requirements, only fair right? People have left the hobby in droves as a result, the requirement for tests/registration, strict rules around where you can fly and the prospect of even more regulations (such as Flyer location via gps) have made it more trouble than it’s worth for many.

More regulation won’t be good for the emtb scene in my humble opinion, accepting registration/licence/fees in exchange for an increase in allowable power and/or speed could lead to all bicycles with a motor being hit with similar restrictions/requirements, just like drone regs have hit model flyers in the parks etc.

Uncontrolled power increases will attract the regulators at some point, the model aircraft community tried to demonstrate that they were different to drones somehow, that a model glider wasn’t the same as a drone etc, and that people would be sensible about it and only criminals needed regulating. Again sounds familiar.

We’re at the top of a potentially very slippery slope here me thinks.

I see what you are saying here and I agree. We need to find a way to stop the bureaucrats

 

[irie]

I see what you are saying here and I agree. We need to find a way to stop the bureaucrats

Or remove the need for the bureaucrats to make a choice.

 

[Old Codger]

It takes a special type of person, to be happy with a $10,000 pedal assist bike that has a top speed limit of only 15 mph!

Try taking your bike down the Canyon just North of you. That’s the kind of restriction we are trying to avoid in the UK. You can’t even have a crap in your National Parks.

 

[OPUS]

Morning guys!
I'm 100% sure not saying New thing's! But just need to check all tech sport in the earth!!!what is going there??!!
Sometimes just don't understand a people! More power more more more! the horsepower never enough!!!!
I remember when I built my first EMTB with bafang bbs02 motor (full suspension Enduro bike) and just rolled out to the street (London) and the youngsters ask me about the top speed! My answer was built for the forest not for the top speed! And a boy's didn't like that answer! No matter what kind of bike the top speed more important...
My opinion is we bikers try to enjoy what we get from the developers, appreciate that hard work! "The law story" another thing......

The summer here in the corner, enjoy

 

[Abildgaard]

All this talk about Power that has suddenly arisen seems a bit ridiculous to be honest. Rocky Mountain has had bikes for years that have 108nm of torque and it has never been a problem or a challenge, is it because they look a bit clumsy and therefore perhaps have not been a competitor in the mainstream market? With the Amflow, DJI has built a next level ebike with lots of power, range and nice details such as an OLED touch display and much more, all packed into a nice, slim and light bike and has left the development department at Bosch in shock and my personal guess about the Bosch gen5 Power upgrade is that it was not planned at all but that after the launch of the Amflow, the engineers at Bosch were asked to find out how much you could push the engine before the failure rate increased significantly, but as I said, that's my own guess. Personally, I think Bosch makes quality and their service and support are, in my opinion, top notch. I have had a lot of trouble with my gen4 and Bosch has always been fantastic at getting it fixed. I don't know how DJI is with their customer service, but there is something to live up to if they want to beat Bosch in that diciplin

 

[DirkWisely]

Yes this is obviously a movement started by existing players, and sustained by "influencers" that love their engagement bait headlines. It generates discussion, so our entire online ecosystem incentivizes it.

 

[irie]

All this talk about Power that has suddenly arisen seems a bit ridiculous to be honest. Rocky Mountain has had bikes for years that have 108nm of torque and it has never been a problem or a challenge, is it because they look a bit clumsy and therefore perhaps have not been a competitor in the mainstream market? With the Amflow, DJI has built a next level ebike with lots of power, range and nice details such as an OLED touch display and much more, all packed into a nice, slim and light bike and has left the development department at Bosch in shock and my personal guess about the Bosch gen5 Power upgrade is that it was not planned at all but that after the launch of the Amflow, the engineers at Bosch were asked to find out how much you could push the engine before the failure rate increased significantly, but as I said, that's my own guess. Personally, I think Bosch makes quality and their service and support are, in my opinion, top notch. I have had a lot of trouble with my gen4 and Bosch has always been fantastic at getting it fixed. I don't know how DJI is with their customer service, but there is something to live up to if they want to beat Bosch in that diciplin

DJI have not built a "next level ebike".

DJI have instead built a powerful motor with a quality supportive ecosystem that has been installed in a very ordinary frame festooned with quality components that can be freely bought over the counter.

 

[Onetime]

Power Shift​

A few weeks back, the big names in eMTB got together and said, “Right, let’s not go over 750 watts.” It was all positioned about being responsible, protecting access, and keeping things feeling like proper mountain biking, and avoiding emtb's risking being reclassified into e-moto's.

Fast forward to now, and DJI have just rolled out a firmware update for the Avinox system. And it bumps the peak power up to 1000W. Quietly. No press launch, just an update in the app. And just like that, the debate’s back on.

Read the full article: DJI Just Unlocked 1000W. What Now?

It’s awesome! I think all of the manufacturers should do the same thing as DJI, as well as making the bikes class switchable, like the new Specialized gen 4 Levo. Let the consumer be in control of their own bike, just like any other vehicle. If there is a speed limit, we the consumer should be responsible for complying with it. If I want to ride my bike to the trailhead, or commute to work on paved roads, then I should be able to go as fast as a regular Amish bike can. Not be limited to 15 or 20mph depending on your county. That’s just stupid. Bring the power and the speed!

 

[Citylad77]

DJI have not built a "next level ebike".

DJI have instead built a powerful motor with a quality supportive ecosystem that has been installed in a very ordinary frame festooned with quality components that can be freely bought over the counter.

Agreed on the frame it’s nothing that special or cutting edge, but it is very light and does ride really well. That Gen 4 Spec whilst comfy does ride like a cart horse in comparison to the Anflow PL.

The DJI Motor and Battery units are from another dimension in comparison to other makes that are currently on the Market. Just done the latest update it’s even smoother now and range has improved. Can’t wait for my UNNO MITH next month with this DJI power unit.

 

[Plyphon]

DJI have not built a "next level ebike".

DJI have instead built a powerful motor with a quality supportive ecosystem that has been installed in a very ordinary frame festooned with quality components that can be freely bought over the counter.

With respect, they've certainly raised the bar in many respects even if the frame isn't the slackest or the longest.

- Integration
- Customisation
- User experience
- Battery size
- Visual presentation
- weight (debateable, sure)
- speed of updates / new features
- probably some other things
- All in a 800whr / 1000w / 120nm package.

Whilst the frame might be conservative (and tbh, I think that's the correct decision) I'd certainly say the overall package qualifies for 'next level' for sure.

 

[irie]

With respect, they've certainly raised the bar in many respects even if the frame isn't the slackest or the longest.

- Integration
- Customisation
- User experience
- Battery size
- Visual presentation
- weight (debateable, sure)
- speed of updates / new features
- probably some other things
- All in a 800whr / 1000w / 120nm package.

Whilst the frame might be conservative (and tbh, I think that's the correct decision) I'd certainly say the overall package qualifies for 'next level' for sure.

With respect, as said previously, without "a powerful motor with a quality supportive ecosystem" it would simply be 'yet another bike'.

 

[ZR1]

With respect, as said previously, without "a powerful motor with a quality supportive ecosystem" it would simply be 'yet another bike'.

That's still the unknown for pretty much all motors though, how many actually go through their warranty period without requiring fixes. You might have thought before hand buying Shimano or Canyon would be a safe bet.

A big attraction of DJI is the features that other brands probably had roadmaps to charge extra for like the large touch screen, big power, fast charging, wireless remotes etc are all included at the budget end.