DIY E-Gravel with suspension fork build

[sandyman44]

thought I'd post this in here as couldn't figure out where else

I'm looking to build up a light weight (low power motor, smaller battery, built-in), ideally mid-drive , gravel bike. For me, gravel means long days out (100km+), where the trails are very non-technical, but the trail surface could be anything and any gradient. Therefore it must take at least 50mm tyres and it MUST be able to run a short travel suspension fork.. to cope with rocky descents without destroying hands / pitching over the front. must also have a "standard" seatpost socket so I can run a dropper... no aero shapes please.
I want old school "flat top tube, large mid triangle" design - not a sloped top tube like a modern hardtail. I also prefer to have large frame bag space over standover height.... I am not doing singletrack on this (I have an EMTB for that). I've been round the houses of all the available "branded bikes" and struggling to find anything that meets my needs so starting to think about self-built.

I'm comfortable starting from frame+motor+battery , with or without fork (but no point giving me a rigid fork I don't want it). Frame geometry designed to be the right angles for gravel, whilst running a 50 or 60mm travel fork, and obvs a headset that takes common availble forks...
Modern low torque (50nm or less) low weight smaller battery (400 Wh ish) motor setup

ideas please?

 

[Roughshod]

Hi Sandyman,

There's not many options when it comes to buying a frame and motor, regardless of the type of ebike.

For gravel there's the new Velduro Phantom, though that comes with the latest Avinox motor and is the other end of the scale from low power. It also offers a larger capacity battery than most e-gravel bikes come with. You could just run it at a custom lower power level which is what I'm intending on doing when they can get me one. The frame is also corrected to use a suspension fork which I guess most won't be.

Otherwise I think you can buy some carbon frames from China that you can put a bafang motor in. There are threads of people doing it for a eMTB not seen or looked into options for a gravel bike.

I've not seen any other options, so the other way you could go is get a second hand bike and customise it. I've got a Fazua powered Cairn which has it's third total failure and now needs £900 to replace the bottom bracket and get a new motor, hence looking at other options. So I don't recommend going for a Fazua system if you go this route.

TQ systems seem to be more reliable though please do your homework as I don't know too much about them. The newer HPR60 seems to have some benefits over the 50, though when I looked for a e-gravel bike with the HPR60 motor I couldn't find one and they all seem to be in eMTBs with the gravel bikes using the HPR50. I also see they have a HPR40 but that's the first I've seen of it. There may be frame and motor options though I've not looked.

The higher power option and larger battery capacity of the Avinox powered Velduro appeals to my needs more, especially as I can get it as a frameset. I used to commute on mine and having more power for going up hills with a queue of traffic behind me is desirable. I think the default eco mode on it is more powerful than the top mode on my Fazua bike.

I'm interested to see what you end up doing and if you have any more questions I'm happy to help if I can.

 

[sandyman44]

Hi Sandyman,

There's not many options when it comes to buying a frame and motor, regardless of the type of ebike.

For gravel there's the new Velduro Phantom, though that comes with the latest Avinox motor and is the other end of the scale from low power. It also offers a larger capacity battery than most e-gravel bikes come with. You could just run it at a custom lower power level which is what I'm intending on doing when they can get me one. The frame is also corrected to use a suspension fork which I guess most won't be.

Otherwise I think you can buy some carbon frames from China that you can put a bafang motor in. There are threads of people doing it for a eMTB not seen or looked into options for a gravel bike.

I've not seen any other options, so the other way you could go is get a second hand bike and customise it. I've got a Fazua powered Cairn which has it's third total failure and now needs £900 to replace the bottom bracket and get a new motor, hence looking at other options. So I don't recommend going for a Fazua system if you go this route.

TQ systems seem to be more reliable though please do your homework as I don't know too much about them. The newer HPR60 seems to have some benefits over the 50, though when I looked for a e-gravel bike with the HPR60 motor I couldn't find one and they all seem to be in eMTBs with the gravel bikes using the HPR50. I also see they have a HPR40 but that's the first I've seen of it. There may be frame and motor options though I've not looked.

The higher power option and larger battery capacity of the Avinox powered Velduro appeals to my needs more, especially as I can get it as a frameset. I used to commute on mine and having more power for going up hills with a queue of traffic behind me is desirable. I think the default eco mode on it is more powerful than the top mode on my Fazua bike.

I'm interested to see what you end up doing and if you have any more questions I'm happy to help if I can.

thanks. yes, aware there are not many frame & motor options out there - I was wandering into this forum primarily to see if there was anyone who'd done gravel build with a chinese frame and a smaller bafang. 2nd hand bike as a donor is one I've done a lot of research into , and you'd think that a e-hardtail or "e-commute" could work, but its harder than you think : , there aren't many e-hardtails anyway and often are "rowdy" geometry. Many older city bikes any have high power / old / unreliable / heavy motor , or won't take the tyres, or have fancy headsets (so won't take a fork / stem change easily). The most likely so far is the spesh turbo vado SL, version 1 , 4.0 spec (has to be that exact one, so that its a standard headset) but I am not sure yet.

I looked at the phantom but as soon as I read avinox full power, I turned away. I personally don't like what they are doing - I don't need more than 85NM to get me up anything that I have enough technique to get up (on an emtb). and whilst I know they can be de-tuned, I'd rather not carry the weight for that overcapacity around with me, or pay the cost of it. but anyway, thats enough philosophy.... you are entitled to pay your money and take your choice ;-)

suspension corrected is also a puzzling one (what do they actually mean...). Even the Phantom (I just looked ) has an A2C of 395, so that will change angles when you put a suspension fork in, maybe not by enough to matter, but it will change.

 

[Roughshod]

I think suspension corrected frames account for the fact a suspension fork is longer than a rigid for typically and bikes with suspension correct frames offer a longer rigid fork than normal.

I don't know for certain though that's just kind of the impression I got from looking at frame geometries the last month or so.

 

[curufinwe_wins]

Checkpoint+ and Domane+ are both suspension corrected from start. With tq60. They are actually basically identical bikes in the current gen, but checkpoint has wider clearance. Carbon version is noticably more comfy

Otherwise if in europe, you have the orbea and megamo bikes.

For dyi, you got the lightcarbon egravel frames.

 

[sandyman44]

Checkpoint+ and Domane+ are both suspension corrected from start. With tq60. They are actually basically identical bikes in the current gen, but checkpoint has wider clearance. Carbon version is noticably more comfy

Otherwise if in europe, you have the orbea and megamo bikes.

For dyi, you got the lightcarbon egravel frames.

thanks, I just found checkpoint+ by reversing from tq60 list of all bikes. expensive... need to have a think.

 

[Mabman]

10 yrs ago I built up a Motobecane drop bar alu bike with 40c tires and a front hub motor that I used primarily on dirt roads which today would probably be considered a "gravel bike". Rode it all over the western US, primarily Oregon but pic is at elevation in CO, on all types of terrain including single track. It lacked PAS but with a "cruise control" feature on the throttle it could be set to any watt output and I pedaled away to my hearts content and being a long time cyclist that is what I did.

Eventually a few years later I built up a mid motor eMTB with PAS for more hardcore trail use but kept the drop bar bike for what it did better. I had 0 bad to say about the front hub setup and had many great adventures with it that led to building two more similar ones with some features I felt would enhance the ride.

All the ones I built up had 17.5ah batteries and 1000w motors and Schlumpf cranksets but if I was to make one today I would use a Bafang G311 geared front hub motor and a smaller battery to achieve basically the same thing you are looking for. Not trying to sell you on the concept but it sure worked for me!

 

[franciscoasismm]

4000€

 

[sandyman44]

4000€

thanks, don't know megamo, will check them out.

 

[franciscoasismm]

thanks, don't know megamo, will check them out.

https://cyclingindustry.news/megamo-to-arrive-in-the-uk-with-alsobikes-distribution-partnership/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

 

[sandyman44]

https://cyclingindustry.news/megamo-to-arrive-in-the-uk-with-alsobikes-distribution-partnership/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

having checked it out, their Lande seems more towards the "allroad" end of gravel. Rigid fork, 45mm tyres, 72 degree head angle (actually steeper than their E-road which is 71). I already have a bike like that - a specialised turbo creo v1. Which is not able to handle the riding I am doing / want to do. I want / need a bike more towards the "monster gravel" end of the spectrum... but not an mtb. Thanks for the tip on another brand through.

 

[franciscoasismm]

Tras revisarla, la Lande parece más bien una bicicleta todoterreno para gravel. Horquilla rígida, neumáticos de 45 mm, ángulo de dirección de 72 grados (de hecho, más inclinado que su E-road, que tiene 71). Ya tengo una bicicleta parecida: una Specialized Turbo Creo V1. Que no me sirve para el tipo de ciclismo que practico o quiero practicar. Busque una bicicleta más orientada al extremo gravel, pero no una MTB. Gracias por la recomendación de otra marca.

Velduro Fantasma X | Bicicleta electrica e-gravel
Grizl:ONfly CF Trail
Velduro They're tailoring it to my needs.

 

[sandyman44]

Velduro Fantasma X | Bicicleta electrica e-gravel
Grizl:ONfly CF Trail
Velduro They're tailoring it to my needs.

Thanks... your brain goes the same place as me. I spent a lot of time looking at the Grizl:Onfly, and almost pulled the trigger to buy. Then I realised it has a very rare 1 1/2" headtube. Which means there are only about 3 aftermarket stems you can use. I will ALWAYS need a high riser stem - unless the factory stack is so high no one else would buy it . So it disqualifies on those grounds :-(

Phantom Velduro was mentioned by an earlier post - it looks good - except its got full fat avinox, I don't need to spend the money / carry the weight of that. I am also bit puzzled by their claim to be suspension corrected - its AC of 395 on the rigid fork, which doesn't seem corrected to me.

 

[ebsocalmtb]

I went down this rabbit hole a few years ago when a friend requested a similar setup. We ended up going down the route of a quality, 250w hub motor (Geared Shengyi SX2). We built 2 DIY batteries for him, 1 that is water bottle cage sized that was 8ah and another that was 14ah (both were 48v). Our reasoning for this setup was that with the distances he wanted to ride, there was a moderate liklihood of draining the battery and riding the bike dead. A hub motor is advantageous for this usage as you aren't dealing with the 5-10% drag that a mid drive will have at 22-25mph.

Since the geared drive hub motors will use a QR standard, we selected a marin hard tail mountain bike that was 1 size down for him in order to have the proper reach for drop bars. We then used a 32mm chassis non-boost fox fork. Overall, he was quite happy with the build and it came in pretty in-expensive with the drive unit and batteries costing about 1,200 and the total build cost of ~2,600 usd.

Orbea now makes something similar called the gain (https://www.orbea.com/en-us/m/gain). If I were headed down this route with currently available bikes, I would likely find a mid drive mtb, either hard tail or full suspension and slim it down into a light weight build. I'd use a firmware crack to unlock the speed limiter to allow 28mph. It's not that a purpose built bike wouldn't be better, it's just that the used market of ep8 bikes is so good that you can get mid drive low mileage bikes like the orbea rise for sub 2k... no reason not to just go with a full suspension, size down and run skinny tires.

 

[sandyman44]

the speed limiter to allow 28mph. It's not that a purpose built bike wouldn't be better, it's just that the used market of ep8 bikes is so good that you can get mid drive low mileage bikes like the orbea rise for sub 2k... no reason not to just go with a full suspension, size down and run skinny tires.

thanks. except, full suss frames have small main triangle. want to keep that full size, for frame bags.

Currently looking at getting a 2nd hand spesh vado SL and changing fork on it. Basically giving me a something not far off an old school hardtail. whether I do a full change to drops, or run a modded flat bar setup, would be a detail for later.

 

[keton22]

How about Bosch SX and Cube Nuroad/Nulane? I've built my cross bike (or 'flat bar monster gravel' as younger generation would say) by getting my hands on cheap Nuroad frame, motor and battery set. Kitted it out with 40mm Rudy fork, dropper, some custom laced DT Swiss wheels. Result is suprisingly light at 14.5kg but that includes leather seat, fenders, lights, kickstand and heavy MTB stem.

SX is full power class at 60Nm and 600W if you have cadence to spin it around 100rpm. Plenty for my use.
Rudy feels stiff at first but makes a lot of difference. Even more difference comes from going with relatively wide low pressure tubeless tires.
For warm season I've settled on 55mm Schwalbe Thunder Burts. There's clearance to go all the way to 60mm but Rick XC tires I've tried were too tall, hitting fork arch so those would have to be true 28inch tires.

 

[sandyman44]

How about Bosch SX and Cube Nuroad/Nulane? I've built my cross bike (or 'flat bar monster gravel' as younger generation would say) by getting my hands on cheap Nuroad frame, motor and battery set. Kitted it out with 40mm Rudy fork, dropper, some custom laced DT Swiss wheels. Result is suprisingly light at 14.5kg but that includes leather seat, fenders, lights, kickstand and heavy MTB stem.

SX is full power class at 60Nm and 600W if you have cadence to spin it around 100rpm. Plenty for my use.
Rudy feels stiff at first but makes a lot of difference. Even more difference comes from going with relatively wide low pressure tubeless tires.
For warm season I've settled on 55mm Schwalbe Thunder Burts. There's clearance to go all the way to 60mm but Rick XC tires I've tried were too tall, hitting fork arch so those would have to be true 28inch tires.

that cube bike also on my short list, and the mods you are talking is exactly my plan as well. 40mm rudy or fox gravel fork, 50mm tyres (or bigger) on 650b DT swiss gravel wheelset (which I have), dropper.

 

[Dirly]

Ribble’s e gravel bike takes the Rockshox Rudy, Mahle hub motor though. https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/bikes/electric-bikes/gravel-electric-bike/

 

[sandyman44]

Ribble’s e gravel bike takes the Rockshox Rudy, Mahle hub motor though. https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/bikes/electric-bikes/gravel-electric-bike/

but will not take a dropper because they put a farkin D-shape post on it. so many bikes are DSQ'ing from my shortlist due to non-standard stuff.

 

[keton22]

that cube bike also on my short list, and the mods you are talking is exactly my plan as well. 40mm rudy or fox gravel fork, 50mm tyres (or bigger) on 650b DT swiss gravel wheelset (which I have), dropper.

I'd say consider going for it. Straightforward build as everything is standard on Nulane frame. Just strip it down and build everything from scratch. Cube likes to forget to use grease. For one cable run I've taken out the battery but that's my perfectionism, there are other routing channels on the 'wrong' side of the down tube.

One thing I'd change on mine would be going with Shimano Di2 instead of Sram AXS for Bosch eShift integration. I mean I can shift gears just fine but auto downshift when coasting so you're always in correct gear in case of a sudden stop is very handy feature. Bosch reps hinted Sram integration at recent press events but my guess is that this will be for new bikes only.

And if I could afford the cost and still could tolerate drop bars I'd consider Canyon Grizl:ONfly CF Trail. It's very close to my final build but with fancy carbon wheels and full factory warranty.

 

[sandyman44]

I'd say consider going for it. Straightforward build as everything is standard on Nulane frame. Just strip it down and build everything from scratch. Cube likes to forget to use grease. For one cable run I've taken out the battery but that's my perfectionism, there are other routing channels on the 'wrong' side of the down tube.

One thing I'd change on mine would be going with Shimano Di2 instead of Sram AXS for Bosch eShift integration. I mean I can shift gears just fine but auto downshift when coasting so you're always in correct gear in case of a sudden stop is very handy feature. Bosch reps hinted Sram integration at recent press events but my guess is that this will be for new bikes only.

And if I could afford the cost and still could tolerate drop bars I'd consider Canyon Grizl:ONfly. It's very close to my final build but with fancy carbon wheels and full factory warranty.

I am just the anti-theft due dilgence away from a vado SL ebay purchase,, and got a Fox 40mm lined up there as well.

Grizl: onfly looked really nice...I did the research... strange headset size, you are tied to a specific subset of Ritchey stems.

 

[Dirly]

I’m disappearing down your rabbit hole now . I’m considering changing my Orbea Urrun to a more gravel like set up. But if I could get an e version of my Giant Revolt X I’d be a happy man .

 

[sandyman44]

I am just the anti-theft due dilgence away from a vado SL ebay purchase,, and got a Fox 40mm lined up there as well.

Grizl: onfly looked really nice...I did the research... strange headset size, you are tied to a specific subset of Ritchey stems.

pressed the button on the vado SL. Holding off on the fork, seems the fox and the rudy don't play well with 650b. more research to do.