Swiss Roll
Member
I was looking at getting some body protection, and I saw that the wonder non newtonian material I have been seeing over the last few years has some products on the market.
Does it work?
cheers
Does it work?
cheers
come man, take one for the team...I haven't put mine (knee pads) through a crash test
Sounds promising.I bought an upper body protection jacket for my son, he fell off a few times in the bikepark and didn't hurt those parts! He did say it was quite comfortable and not too hot. I watched a youtube about the material which is why I decided on 3Do
At the risk of starting a furious debate, as happens on a climbing forum, when "the Peaks" are mentioned I should inform you that it is actually "the Peak". It's named after an ancient tribe and not that there are multiple peaks. Because there are not. The best argument I've heard for calling it "the Peaks" is that there are two areas. The "Dark Peak" and the "White Peak" reflecting the gritstone and the limestone areas but that's clutching at straws and is seldom used in that context.I believe that it as fast as the vibration of the impact passes through the material, which will be very fast. Think of the material as better than a damped fork at absorbing and transmitting shock.
I once went over the bars on Jacobs Ladder in the Peaks (a famous steep rock strewn descent). I was going as fast as I dared at the time and I was very lucky. I managed to do a forward roll and ended up upright and on my feet as I watched my bike bounce down the hillside.
I could not believe it! Not a mark on me....... and none on the bike either!
That's a good protection strategy, but last time I crashed, everything hurt equally. My face took a mashing, so I got a ff helmet.I think I would pay more attention to a test in a lab to someone saying they came away unhurt. I have by the way. When I have been hurt in the past it has been the bits that were NOT protected. e.g. knees, so I bought knee pads (D30) and have not injured them since. Elbows, so I bought G Form elbow pads (similar principle) and have not hurt my elbows since. Ribs, so I bought a G Form compression T and have not hurt them since. The problem is that lack of injury could also be down to not hitting those specific bits since then
That was a very informative and balanced overview, Thanks! Just what I need, experience from a seasoned crasher!There's already quite a lot on this in the reviews sections and a couple of bodyarmour threads.......
And how fast does it soften?I believe that it as fast as the vibration of the impact passes through the material, which will be very fast. Think of the material as better than a damped fork at absorbing and transmitting shock.
I once went over the bars on Jacobs Ladder in the Peaks (a famous steep rock strewn descent). I was going as fast as I dared at the time and I was very lucky. I managed to do a forward roll and ended up upright and on my feet as I watched my bike bounce down the hillside.
I could not believe it! Not a mark on me....... and none on the bike either!
About 3 days to a week ...And how fast does it soften?
Ah, another downside..About 3 days to a week ...
The more I use it and the more accidents I have with it .. the less I'm tending to use it, trust it, or like using it because it's hot and heavy.Ah, another downside..
so the answer to my question, does it work, is "sort of"
Still better than a t-shirt ?Ah, another downside..
so the answer to my question, does it work, is "sort of"
Well … I’ve got the sleeveless version and am pretty happy with it ?There's already quite a lot on this in the reviews sections and a couple of bodyarmour threads.
I think it's no secret that I have quite a history of crashing, so body armour is a bit of a passion of mine.
The first thing to remember is that ALL body armour is a compromise.
You're compromising between weight, heat, comfort, intrusiveness, flexibility, coverage, effectiveness.
D3O is attractive because it's flexible and, theoretically, reactive - so it hardens on impacts reducing transmitted shock forces.
The downsides of D3O is that it's heavy and a hot, it's a big wobbly lump of heavy foam stuck against your body. The other downside of D3O and any of the none newtonian armours is that they work far far better if they have a harder outer plastic skin/shell to spread impact forces over the pads area. Sadly, most don't - because it's complicated to add that and retain the flexibility, keep some air flow, it's more expensive to make - not just some super cheap goop you can bang in a mold for 10p and sell for £20.
In terms of comfort, they're better in winter as it's cooler. Hence why they first were used for Skiing. The downside being that they're often a bit stiffer when it's cold until they warm up.
They're are also lots of different types. D3O being the main one people know. Leatt do their own 3DF - slightly stiffer by default, so slightly more protective whether reacting or not. Sastec - often cheaper and can be warmer due to simpler designs/less venting.
Then you need to look at what bits you want armoured. Shoulders ? Elbows ? Knees ? Back ? Chest ? Kidneys ? Hips ? Coccyx ? Kidneys ? Stomach ?
You also need to keep in mind that armour won't make you immortal. It won't guarantee you won't break things. However, it will - or should, reduce the severity of impacts. So if you do fall and break a rib with armour on - you'd probably have broken several, punctured a lung and have severe lacerations if you'd not had the armour on.
Generally, the more parts you armour, the warmer you'll be. But again, fortunately, there are many different types and different solutions.
What you choose will depend on what you want to armour, where you ride (terrain/risk/temperatures), how you ride and other factors, like if it worries you if you end up looking like robocop or not.
Just some examples.
For the upper body for instance there's the TLD7855. This uses twin density foams sandwiched together which work really effectively for most off's, though you can still break ribs and so on if you crash impressively enough. Something like that has one of the largest armoured coverages available, yet only weighs about 700g. If you made the same thing with D3O it would weigh about 5kg's. It also breaths really well. It's negatives are you need to wear something underneath or it rubs your nippes and glues itself to you + the back armour is segmented so not as effective compared to a full length back protector - like nearly all armours it also runs short at the back to keep MX guys happy. The shoulders are also a bit lacking, but easy to swap out for better ones.
You might just want chest/rib/back - so something like a hard plastic/polycarbonate with foam TLD5900 (or similar) - wear it straight on your skin and you can barely tell you're wearing it - lighter, cooler, thinner, more effective, better coverage than something similar in D3O.
Or with some upper arm, shoulders, collar bone - the tld5955 - wear it over your shirt normally, though can be worn under but the shirt needs to accommodate the shoudlers.
Just shoulders ? Something like the Leatt Armoured Tee.
Ultimately, it's not JUST about buying the "BEST" body armour. It's pointless buying something which makes you feel like Iron Man if it's so hot, uncomfortable, restrictive, difficult to put on and off that you only wear it for 10% of rides. You ideally want to end up with something which you're comfortable wearing for 90-100% of rides - or it's not protecting you !
For something like knees, the 7iDP Sam Hill pads are comfortable, light, cool and effective. I've been off in these at least 100 times and have no knee injuries. They're getting a bit torn up now, but they still work. I tried several before I settled on these. I hate D3O for knee's.
Elbows, something like the Leatt 6.0's are comfortable and have a plastic outer to help spread sharper impacts.
If you're just worried about your back, then if you already take a backpack, maybe change to a backpack with inbuilt armour.
Most D3O "Jackets"/Tops will generally only have elbows/back/shoulders. If they have chest armour it's normally a useless bit of thin foam because more D3O makes it too heavy and hot - though the useless bit of thin foam is normally enough to make your chest hot without adding any relevant protection. They're fine for that, if you're happy just with protection in those areas.
I'll stop there as it's getting long and boring and it's mainly covered in other threads.
The standards give you some basic guidelines but you need to be careful to not just rely on these and do lots of other research for what's actually right for you. Some things to watch out for, CE2 is not twice as protective as CE1 for instance, it's about 30% more. CE1 back has a far higher resistance to CE1 everywhere else. There was supposed to be CE3 but Alpinestars and Dianese managed to campaign against it's introduction because they didn't have anything which complied.Very often competitions stipulate that gear is worn to those standards. For us the relevant standard is the European Motor Cycle Standard EN 1621-1 ( all armour except back and spine) and EN 1621-2 ( back and spine).
That could also be confusing. A lot of hard shell chest/back protectors are also sold as "Roost Guards" to obviously help with not getting shreaded by flying gravel. However a lot of these are also standard body protectors. The main problem with the hard plastics is if they've not been thought about, they can be presented in a form which is too rigid and doesn't conform to the body shape. Several are well designed though and many incorporate hinged sections. Ideally though, you do want one with some form of foam behind to help with impact absorption and also with air distribution, with the foam's creating air channels behind the plastic.ps hard plastic/poly protectors ( ie without any type of impact foam) are designed to protect against flying stones not impacts.
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