Contradictory advice

JoeBlow

JoeBlow

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I've just been watching videos from two professional MTB instructors with regard to handling small drops and they give contradictory advice. One (American) says maintain the attack position and push your butt back. The other (UK) says straighten the arms to push the handle bars forward as you go over the drop. For someone trying to master this it's all very confusing. :) I've decided the ONLY realiable solution is trial and error so I'm going out on my bike now to practice. In the mean time which method do you use?
 
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depends on what you are trying to do on the drop.
  1. Get wheels down first for trail control.
  2. enjoy a little air time
  3. Pop off the edge to miss the drop.
In response
  1. Push bars down off/over the edge of the drop
  2. At the edge of the drop pull back on the bars in attack position to land equally front wheel & back wheel
  3. Bunny hop before the drop to miss the edge of the drop (used mainly to increase speed if drop is on a downslope)
*Disclaimer, I'm no coach ;)
 
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Reactions: Dax
I’m no coach either. My experience is trial n’ error.

The drop has to be rollable for me. I can’t bunny hop and my air-time can be measured with your thumb and index finger. But a 5’ drop is about my limit.

I take the drop fairly slow, push bar forward, slide my butt back as far as necessary, maybe close one eye, brace for impact, then keep riding.

If time permits, I pat myself on the back and whisper “ATTA-BOY”. 🤞🥲
IMG_0381.jpeg
My kid and I were rolling this the other day …it looks steep when you roll it but experienced guys jump.
 
I'm a bit confused by why the OP is confused 🤔
When you push your arms forward, your arse goes back automatically anyway 🤔
 
Bear-uk said:
I'm a bit confused by why the OP is confused 🤔
When you push your arms forward, your arse goes back automatically anyway 🤔
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I thought I had explained the contradiction adequately. The USA coach specifically mentioned staying in the attack position. I thought the attack position was arms bent and leaning towards the handle bars. The UK coach says push the handle bars forward. I'll play close attention to where my arse is next time I try it but I seem to recall having to specifically push it back to get it over the wheel.
 
Your quote says stay in the attack position and push your butt back.
I'm intrigued to know how you manage that without moving your arms?
 
Bear-uk said:
Your quote says stay in the attack position and push your butt back.
I'm intrigued to know how you manage that without moving your arms?
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Perhaps I'm not explaining it properly. The fact that someone is stating 5' max drops suggests this may be the case. All I want to do at the moment is confidently negotiate drops of less than 1'. Why not simply tell me what you do otherwise this discussion could go on forever. :)
 
I'm no expert or coach, but i thought doing the first part of a manual (being in attack position and moving body to the back of the bike) was the "correct" way to do a drop.
 
JoeBlow said:
otherwise this discussion could go on forever
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Well it is the 2nd thread you've started on it in a week, so you're certainly making an effort. The idea behind pushing your arms forward as you approach the edge of a drop is that your arms will naturally lift the front of the bike, thus preventing it nose diving off the edge. Simultaneously, your weight will move rearwards adding to the effect so that the bike goes over the drop in as neutral an attitude as possible or at the very least doesn't pivot you face first into the dirt.
 
matadorCE said:
I'm no expert or coach, but i thought doing the first part of a manual (being in attack position and moving body to the back of the bike) was the "correct" way to do a drop.
Click to expand...
Perhaps but others advise pushing the handle bars forward (see previous post by RustyMTB) which takes you out of the attack position. Lets drop the matter it's not an easy thing to describe in words. Probably best if I invest in some coaching but I admit to being a bit of a tight arse when it comes to that kind of thing. :)
 
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The problem is that there's a lot of variables involved on say do it this way and not the other.
Some drops involve hardly any movement because your going that fast and don't realise they are there until it's too late to react.
If you are just practicing one section of track and it's only small drops, just try different ways to suit your ability and see what you are happy with and build up from there.
I find that these experts on the internet are very capable and have forgotten about the fear of newcomers tackling something that's very scary to them. (And me)
 
Bear-uk said:
The problem is that there's a lot of variables involved on say do it this way and not the other.
Some drops involve hardly any movement because your going that fast and don't realise they are there until it's too late to react.
If you are just practicing one section of track and it's only small drops, just try different ways to suit your ability and see what you are happy with and build up from there.
I find that these experts on the internet are very capable and have forgotten about the fear of newcomers tackling something that's very scary to them. (And me)
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I agree. It’s not a bad idea to get some coaching, or a group class. You can have someone watch you and build your confidence after slowly progressing to bigger drops, or a variety of drops. Starting on some low jumps helps also.

After I have an OTB I tend to avoid those drops …but I really shouldn’t. But after some analysts and insight I get back on the horse 🐎 and refine my technique. I do stay within my ability though.
 
JoeBlow said:
Perhaps but others advise pushing the handle bars forward (see previous post by RustyMTB) which takes you out of the attack position. Lets drop the matter it's not an easy thing to describe in words. Probably best if I invest in some coaching but I admit to being a bit of a tight arse when it comes to that kind of thing. :)
Click to expand...
Best money you can spend on a bike, go get a coaching session.
Tony (Jedi) is a really good teacher, great at building confidence. UK Bike Skills – Mountain Bike Skills Coaching
 
I'm not amazing but I have done drops just over 6' and landed nice and evenly, although I'm much more comfortable at around a 4' drop.

I get low and forward, push down on the fork lightly right BEFORE going off the edge, then shift my weight back right as I ride off the edge while making a point to keep my butt low.

The quick push down on the fork springs back and holds the front end up considerably longer. It's important to not go crazy with the push as it'll upset the chassis. The rearward shift also holds the front end up as you take the weight off the front end. The key I'd say is to resist the urge to have your weight back before the drop out of fear, that's where things can really go wrong. Really focus on being low and forward right up to the edge of the drop. Then just push down and shift your weight back in quick succession.

What happens is if your weight is already back, and your arms are locked out, you can't push down on the fork and you can't shift back. Then when the front end naturally falls, it'll pull you right over the bars as your arms are already straight and maxed out. Fear will make you get your weight back too soon, and this leads to bad things happening.

I've also learned that landing front wheel first on modern bikes really isn't a problem, within reason. So don't make it your sole goal to accomplish that.

What's so interesting is that there are a handful of drops that while sizeable, I've done so much that I have no fear at all of them, and on these my body is just completely in auto mode. It's so effortless and I completely trust that nothing bad will occur. It's the thinking on the new drops that gets dangerous.

Where I live the lead-ins to most drops are very sketchy. They are around turns and you are already descending steeply so your weight wants to be back already. A lot of times the landings are sketchy as well, with ledges and sharp turns or you go off the trail sometimes into a canyon.
 
Sitting in a rolling chair, in front of my desktop, with my hands on top of the table and feet planted, I can push my butt back a few inches without extending the arms...
I would say this is the movement you'll need to make in order to keep the front wheel level off the drop. In real life, it actually translates as moving the feet forward, like the talons of an attacking eagle. Take flight, be free, your dream only ends if/when you come back to land :)
Taking the "extend the arms" approach is dangerous, I think, because it disturbs your stance, and, if you don't get it back at the right time, you may loose control over the bike's pitch, going otb with extended arms (worst scenario)
I like to talk about technic. If you give a link to the sites that you looked for, or even a clip of teh drops you are practising, it would be great.
 
B1rdie said:
it actually translates as moving the feet forward, like the talons of an attacking eagle. Take flight, be free, your dream only ends if/when you come back to land :)
Click to expand...

Spoken like a true “B1rdie”! 😂👍
 
Follow the advice I gave you in this thread for learning.

www.emtbforums.com

Handling drops

I have seen conflicting opinions on this. Everyone agrees that you need to push the handle bars forward but there seems to be a difference of opinion with regard to body position. Some say butt back, others say keep it above the seat. I'm just returning to MTBing and would like to improve my...
www.emtbforums.com www.emtbforums.com

But to answer you immediate question. Bars forward, not ass backwards.
Closely watch this video of mine. The first drop is the photo montage i loaded up the other say.
You will notice that push the bars forward off each drop and then center the bike for the landing.

 
the reason there is conflicting advice is that there are a number of different types of drop and even the natural fore to aft balance of bikes varies.
For decades my main sport was windsurfing and it took years for a well respected ( and mature!) coach came to the conclusion that trying to describe various manoeuvres with step by step instrcutions was a waste of time!!
The reason is that when undertaking various manoevres they usually only span a second or two in time, so no chance anyone is going to process a series of actions to complete it successfully.
What does work however is to focus only on the required outcome.

Preparation before a manoevre is however possible without fogging the brain. For any drop a reasonable speed is the best bet.

So for a drop, the desired outcome is to control the fore and aft balance of the bike in order to land in control....preferably on 2 wheels, or as close to that as possible. Clearly, where you position your weight will determine the fore to aft angle of the bike so that is all you need to have in mind. Staying central on the bike before the drop gives you the biggest range of options to move your weight back or forward, and that movement does not need to be extreme. The only time you would need to go as extreme as getting your bum over the back wheel would be if you entered a drop far too slowly.
 
Plummet said:
Follow the advice I gave you in this thread for learning.

www.emtbforums.com

Handling drops

I have seen conflicting opinions on this. Everyone agrees that you need to push the handle bars forward but there seems to be a difference of opinion with regard to body position. Some say butt back, others say keep it above the seat. I'm just returning to MTBing and would like to improve my...
www.emtbforums.com www.emtbforums.com

But to answer you immediate question. Bars forward, not ass backwards.
Closely watch this video of mine. The first drop is the photo montage i loaded up the other say.
You will notice that push the bars forward off each drop and then center the bike for the landing.

Click to expand...
This video shows that, at the speeds you go, "extending" the arms is not necessary. Just a subtle move, pushing the bars is enough. Just, please, OP, do not try this kind of stuff until you have done it on curbs for thousands of times.
 
.......just to add......a bigger drop .....say over 3ft/ 1 metre ....adds further complications because the landing needs the same skills as landing a bigger jump. Many crashes you see on either jumps or drops are due to not landing straight or not squashing the landing impact.... or simply not having a suitable bike.
 
B1rdie said:
This video shows that, at the speeds you go, "extending" the arms is not necessary. Just a subtle move, pushing the bars is enough. Just, please, OP, do not try this kind of stuff until you have done it on curbs for thousands of times.
Click to expand...
Op wont be sending 12ft drops off ladders. That's expert level game. But the technique remains the similar and it does show the extending arm technique he asked about.

I do agree. Thousands of curbs and then build up from there over a period of years until you reach your crazy level limit.

I, to this day, every time I am riding a road section will manual on and off curbs to keep my technique solid. Its a process that should be engrained in riding. Then when you come around a blind corner you can immediately through the drop manual as muscle memory.
 
Manualing is key skill for handling drops. It all resumes to manualing for only as far as the axle to axle distance of your frame, in the end.
 
JoeBlow said:
I've just been watching videos from two professional MTB instructors with regard to handling small drops and they give contradictory advice. One (American) says maintain the attack position and push your butt back. The other (UK) says straighten the arms to push the handle bars forward as you go over the drop. For someone trying to master this it's all very confusing. :) I've decided the ONLY realiable solution is trial and error so I'm going out on my bike now to practice. In the mean time which method do you use?
Click to expand...
Do both. Make sure to bring hip back to neutral position for landing. Watching Neil “Don” on GMBN helped me learn the technique. With practice, body movement will become subtle. Watch 2nd drop. The rider on the right, watching, tried and crashed because he did not do any of the necessary steps (I don’t know the rider but I watched him). Ambulance took him to ER.
 
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Drops are fun and learning how to do them properly is a skill you’ve got to master if you want to survive the landing. Best is to hire a good coach for a few sessions. But back to your question, as many have said it’s hard to describe in words how to do it. Watching coaching videos is a good starting point while you’re waiting for your coaching day. I find this video excellent at dissecting drops. That’s the video i show friends when they ask about drops. And as a special bonus for you, Ben Cathro is a UK pro and Pinkbike is from Squamish, Canada, so you get the perfect mix of UK and North America.

 
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