Calling all gear Guru's

[Benny22]

Evening all
I'm in need of some advice on a new gear set up mainly on the rear cassette
I currently have Altus 1x9 and a 11t -36t cassette and finding at I'm easily pedalling out in 7th/8th and 9th is just abit to hard to cruise , climbing wise it's fine in the granny.
I'm looking at upgrading to SLX or XT group set but have the choice of a 11t -40T or a 11T-46T cassettes, which will have the best range of gears? With out me changing my chain ring just yet ??

Thanks in advance

 

[Gary]

Swapping from an 11-36 to 11-40 or 11-46 is only going to give you 2 more LOWER gears which you seem to be saying you don't need.
If you want HIGHER gearing for cruising on the flat/downhill you need to change to a larger chainring.

9 speed rings will work with 11 speed chains and vice versa.

 

[steve_sordy]

I wonder if @Benny22 is numbering his gears from the big end rather than the small end.
He says that climbing is fine in the granny (I assume he means the 36T on the cassette) but that he spins out in gears 7&8 and finds no 9 (11T) just a bit hard to cruise.

That sound pretty good to me. But if you want to be able to cruise a bit easier in that 11T, then you need to fit a smaller front ring. But that would also make your climbing a bit easier too.

To retain the ease of climbing but to keep the tension on the crank on the 11T, you really need to change the cassette to give you a wider range. But that will make the granny far too easy, so you also need to fit a larger front ring. But then your cruising in the 11T will be harder!

You sound to me as though you either have thigh muscles of steel or you ride in places of gentle gradients. In either case stay with what you have.

 

[Benny22]

No such thing as gentle gradients in the yorkshire Dale ?, I'll go for the larger chain ring before the group set for now ...the Altus is mega sloppy at chaining gear just need it gone ....so potentially stick with a 9 speed ?

 

[steve_sordy]

No such thing as gentle gradients in the yorkshire Dale ?, I'll go for the larger chain ring before the group set for now ...the Altus is mega sloppy at chaining gear just need it gone ....so potentially stick with a 9 speed ?

If you are happy with 9-speed than why not? You will have a robust and cheap transmission. As long as you can continue to get spares, stay with it.

However, the harder you have to work, the more likely you are to drag power from the battery. Going with a wider range of a 10 or 11-speed may increase your range.

 

[Gary]

That's just not true Steve.

Current 9 speed mtb components really aren't very robust.
10 speed currently offers the most robust cost effective drivetrain
And higher gearing only drains more battery if you climb faster or in a higher assist mode. Plus certain motors are actually more efficient at lower cadences

As for altus not shifting great. Its because of the cheap lower quality mech and shifter. The cassettes and chains shift gear just as smoothly as high end 11 and 10 speed but you'll struggle to find a high end 9 speed mech/shifter now.
XTR or XO still offer very precise 9 speed shifting if you can still find mechs and shifters.

 

[steve_sordy]

That's just not true Steve.

Current 9 speed mtb components really aren't very robust.
10 speed currently offers the most robust cost effective drivetrain
And higher gearing only drains more battery if you climb faster or in a higher assist mode.
........

That is interesting, I always thought that 9-speed was a stronger gear, not that I can recall ever seeing a study or anything, just that with 10-speed being a bit thinner......

What I meant by the gearing was that if you can ride in a gear that is easier for you, then the 100% assist (or whatever mode you are in) would draw less energy from the battery because you are drawing less from your own energy. Easier gears mean you can stay in lower assist mode for longer, surely that is a good range-expanding thing to do?

 

[Gary]

No.
Human Pedalling power output is from torque AND Cadence.
Eg. The exact same power output from the rider can be achieved with lower cadence with higher torque or higher cadence with lower torque.

I wasn't referring to the load strength of 9spd speed chains. I was referring to the low quality materials and poor tolerances of budget 9 spd mecks and shifters.

 

[Kaelidoz]

Currently on 11-36 and a 38 chainring with a Deore m592 sgs (25-30€ on sales). I used the Altus for a while and it felt fine, even if the Deore feels a bit more precise. The biggest difference I ever noticed is changing gears with a basic 9speed kmc chain v.s. a gold super light one. That and fresh cables.

Anyway I know the feeling of the high cadence in 7&8 and then it requires a bit too much torque for "comfort" in the 9th. I also got the advice of getting a bigger chainring back then. (I never did, I got used to my drivetrain too much and I like to spin faster than my motor assist).

Is it restricted?

 

[steve_sordy]

No.
Human Pedalling power output is from torque AND Cadence.
Eg. The exact same power output from the rider can be achieved with lower cadence with higher torque or higher cadence with lower torque.

I wasn't referring to the load strength of 9spd speed chains. I was referring to the low quality materials and poor tolerances of budget 9 spd mecks and shifters.

I completely understand that power = torque x rotational speed (depending upon the units used). And torque = force applied by the foot x crank arm length. The human factor that makes things easier (I originally wrote "if you can ride in a gear that is easier for you") is the force you apply to the pedal. This goes down as the gears get easier. That is all I meant, ie more teeth at the back makes it easier.

I'm sure budget anything does not have high quality materials and tolerances. I see that you can still get Shimano XT 9-speed stuff and it looks to be cheaper than the higher speed kit.

 

[Gary]

Yeah. Old XT is a good buy if you can find it. But personally I'd never use a mech with no clutch on an E bike. Not for chain retention. But to combat chainsuck which can spell disaster with motor over run.

 

[MattyB]

I rather hope the new 10 speed Deore could be the unicorn of EMTB drivetrains... Affordable, tough, hard wearing, clutched in one variant and with good shifting (certainly the early reviews of the 12 speed variant seem promising). The new 5120 derailleur is compatible with an 11 or 10 speed shifter and an 11-42 or 11-46 cassette, so plenty of range for an eeb...

Shimano 12-speed reaches new Deore mountain bike groupset - CyclingTips

Slow to return SRAM’s aggressive serve, Shimano entered the 12-speed mountain bike market in 2018 with XTR, and then followed up with XT and SLX shortly after that. Now, 11 months later, Shimano has announced the same 12-speed technology for its mass-market Deore groupset, a group that’ll surely...

cyclingtips.com

 

[MattyB]

PS - I am with @Gary on the current 9 speed stuff, Altus and Alivio give very average shifting even from new and seem to wear fast. Any SRAM or Shimano 10 or 11 speed should be better in all respects.