Bosch motor service print off

Rusty said:
None of the various hacks I have seen so-far do anything but work around an arbitary number. Changing the speed a motor will assist to does not make a motor susceptible to blowing - that is bad design and poor quality components. A design engineer working on one particular brand advised me that they can run double the peak output of their motor for several hours with no issues.

Exactly.
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Agree, I wasn't clear that I don't think de-restricting your motor means you will blow your motor, just that if you have an issues, it may make warrantying it difficult. The main "issue" I have seen from derestricting is with the battery, as the system is drawing power for longer and more of the time, and the lifespan/range of the battery gets depleted quicker accordingly.
 
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R120 said:
The main "issue" I have seen from derestricting is with the battery, as the system is drawing power for longer and more of the time, and the lifespan/range of the battery gets depleted quicker accordingly.
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So does the guy running his battery full flat, leaving it a month then charging full, then leaving it another month before using. From the discussion at a Speccy dealer today he had done that many times with no problems at all so why did it fail now. :rolleyes:
 
Al Boneta said:
Actually, I run a bike shop that sells a lot of Emtbs and I perform all of the service. I am a Bosch certified factory technician with all of the Bosch specific tools and diagnostic software.
When I was being trained at Bosch, they told me about the EU regulations while I was being trained. I was also taught the proper protocol to follow if I encounter a motor that has been tampered with. I have never encountered one in person outside of the Bosch service facility where they used one for an example.
I will post a picture when I am back in my workshop tomorrow morning, even though I shouldn’t have to, since you are offering no evidence to the contrary.
I only used the Levo example to explain that’s not just Bosch that has tampering detection. Sorry if you took offense, but that is really no concern of mine, now is it?
But if you like, you could always hit the ignore button on my profile and continue to make irresponsible speculations you have no evidence to support.
I will never understand the mentality that feels entitled to a warranty after it’s terms have been violated and it’s somehow justified for the manufacturer and dealer to endure the costs.
Have I used a cheat app on my Ebike? Yes
Have I used a cheat device on my Ebike? Yes
But when the motor finally shit the bed, I accepted my accountability and never tried make someone else pay for a replacement.
I suspect derestriction won’t be an issue much longer. With the federal government allowing Class 1,2 and 3 Ebikes to be used on all federal land, the manufacturers will be able to update Ebikes to travel at 28mph instead of 20mph. It will be almost double what it is Europe
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Cool let's see the picture - or it doesn't exist. The evidence I present is no posts of a bosch customer being denied warranty due to deristicting. Additionally - let's hope tampering means de restricting and not opening the motor case.
 
Beekeeper said:
My next question is how can I obtain the diagnostic software for my PC?
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You can't. And even if you could get a copy, you'd need a dealer log on to get onto the Bosch server.
Beekeeper said:
Don’t tell me, Bosch only allow trained technicians access to it???
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That's correct.

It's a crock of shit, but it is what it is.
 
Marke said:
Cool let's see the picture - or it doesn't exist. The evidence I present is no posts of a bosch customer being denied warranty due to deristicting. Additionally - let's hope tampering means de restricting and not opening the motor case.
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your evidence is no evidence? so you must be under the assumption that everyone with a Bosch motor is a member of this forum, because you haven’t seen a single post about Bosch denying a warranty claim so it must be impossible.
 
Marke said:
Cool let's see the picture - or it doesn't exist.
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I take the comment from a founding member and financial supporter of the site to hold creedence - especially as he is known to be a technician.
Additionally - let's hope tampering means de restricting and not opening the motor case.
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There is de-restricting with changing wheel size or base country and then there is de-restricting by modifying the firmware. There is a huge difference as to how the manufacturers view this. Opening up to the American 25Mph (32kph) as compared to the Euro 20Mph is one thing, but hacking the unit for 40 or 50 + Kph is quite another.
 
Think I might have found the answer. There is a place called eplus.bike that claims to have developed software that is untraceable.
 
Al Boneta said:
Actually, I run a bike shop that sells a lot of Emtbs and I perform all of the service. I am a Bosch certified factory technician with all of the Bosch specific tools and diagnostic software.
When I was being trained at Bosch, they told me about the EU regulations while I was being trained. I was also taught the proper protocol to follow if I encounter a motor that has been tampered with. I have never encountered one in person outside of the Bosch service facility where they used one for an example.
I will post a picture when I am back in my workshop tomorrow morning, even though I shouldn’t have to, since you are offering no evidence to the contrary.
I only used the Levo example to explain that’s not just Bosch that has tampering detection. Sorry if you took offense, but that is really no concern of mine, now is it?
But if you like, you could always hit the ignore button on my profile and continue to make irresponsible speculations you have no evidence to support.
I will never understand the mentality that feels entitled to a warranty after it’s terms have been violated and it’s somehow justified for the manufacturer and dealer to endure the costs.
Have I used a cheat app on my Ebike? Yes
Have I used a cheat device on my Ebike? Yes
But when the motor finally shit the bed, I accepted my accountability and never tried make someone else pay for a replacement.
I suspect derestriction won’t be an issue much longer. With the federal government allowing Class 1,2 and 3 Ebikes to be used on all federal land, the manufacturers will be able to update Ebikes to travel at 28mph instead of 20mph. It will be almost double what it is Europe
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Yep, they could just make so they go 25 mph now already. That would probably be good enough.
 
Rusty said:
I take the comment from a founding member and financial supporter of the site to hold creedence - especially as he is known to be a technician.

There is de-restricting with changing wheel size or base country and then there is de-restricting by modifying the firmware. There is a huge difference as to how the manufacturers view this. Opening up to the American 25Mph (32kph) as compared to the Euro 20Mph is one thing, but hacking the unit for 40 or 50 + Kph is quite another.
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Bring on 25 mph
 
Here it is

9B2A31CA-57D6-49C2-A4E1-C660EE20108C.jpeg
 
Al Boneta said:
Here it is

View attachment 18688
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Thanks very much for taking the time to do that very interesting. I appreciate it.

Next question is what is tampering and how is it detected. I know if you open the motor up it invalidates your warranty - is this tampering? Or is bosch capable of detecting chipping? The lack of actuall warranty work being denied would suggest the former - but I don't know. Thanks again.
 
Marke said:
Thanks very much for taking the time to do that very interesting. I appreciate it.

Next question is what is tampering and how is it detected. I know if you open the motor up it invalidates your warranty - is this tampering? Or is bosch capable of detecting chipping? The lack of actuall warranty work being denied would suggest the former - but I don't know. Thanks again.
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You are welcome.
All I am doing by providing this information is trying to educate.
Ultimately I don’t want to see anyone lose out on getting their bikes warranty.
These bikes are super expensive.
It can detect chipping and can also detect sensor and magnet manipulation.
If you open the motor the software will not detect it, but there is a sticker that will change color when exposed to light that is inside the motor.
 
Al Boneta said:
You are welcome.
All I am doing by providing this information is trying to educate.
Ultimately I don’t want to see anyone lose out on getting their bikes warranty.
These bikes are super expensive.
It can detect chipping and can also detect sensor and magnet manipulation.
If you open the motor the software will not detect it, but there is a sticker that will change color when exposed to light that is inside the motor.
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Very interesting thanks again.
 
I was so worried about my chipped motor breaking that i bought a spare one off ebay before they all vanished. (Bosch Performance CX Mark 3)

I (used to - Covid!!) ride it to work and back every day, average 16mph, rarely go above 20 but 15.5 was a real pain before i chipped it. I ride at 20ish but the slow bits and passing people brings it down.

I've just passed 10k trouble free miles on the motor, no problems at all, still sounds sweet as a nut. 3 years 4 months old now.

So i've still got a spare motor if it ever does go!
 
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Old Mike said:
I was so worried about my chipped motor breaking that i bought a spare one off ebay before they all vanished. (Bosch Performance CX Mark 3)

I (used to - Covid!!) ride it to work and back every day, average 16mph, rarely go above 20 but 15.5 was a real pain before i chipped it. I ride at 20ish but the slow bits and passing people brings it down.

I've just passed 10k trouble free miles on the motor, no problems at all, still sounds sweet as a nut. 3 years 4 months old now.

So i've still got a spare motor if it ever does go!
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How much was it for the spare?
 
Beekeeper said:
My purion display has a USB socket so presumably I can connect this to a laptop and run the diagnostic software and see that pretty pie chart in the comfort of my own home. Then I can see for myself how my bike is tracking my every move

My next question is how can I obtain the diagnostic software for my PC?

Don’t tell me, Bosch only allow trained technicians access to it???

Or is it actually available to us mere mortals? I mean we are not doing anything illegal, we just want to know what data our bike has on us ?
Surely we can have that under GDPR rules??

Hey e-bike, what data you got on me??
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This is old but - yeah. Bosch holds meetings scheduled with Event bright I think where you attend a training and once completed get the USB with programs. Currently it's distance learning because of COVID.

It's pretty cheap but I think you need to be a dealer.
 
l would say that increasing the cutoff speed of the motor to 20mph isn't "chipping" because the motor is designed to operate at those speeds in some markets.
lncreasing the motor power is "chipping" and the manufacturer would be justified in voiding the warranty if this was done.

Also, l would say it depends on the type of failure. If water has got past the seals and ruined the motor, that should be a warranty issue whatever "chipping" has been done.
 
lightning said:
l would say that increasing the cutoff speed of the motor to 20mph isn't "chipping" because the motor is designed to operate at those speeds in some markets.
lncreasing the motor power is "chipping" and the manufacturer would be justified in voiding the warranty if this was done.
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This here is something very fundamental that I think most just don't understand. From motor point of view manipulating the rear wheel speed signal doesn't add maximum wattage output. Overriding the max watts would be clear mark for breaking the rules like in automotive world.

Only variable that changes is bike speed and I've not yet heard about maximum speed limit of the bike? (hint: it's different thing than maximum assist speed)

What was posted to this topic 2019 that unassisted kilometres tells that one has been cheating is absolutely rubbish and doesn't have any reasonable logic behind it.
 
l can't see how the manufacturer could argue that removing the speed restriction would increase chances of motor failure.
As it's not putting the motor under any more stress.
However it would be easy to use this as an excuse to avoid paying out on a warranty claim.
Oh, and it's also illegal !! And the authorities take a fairly dim view of it, in France the fine is an absurd 30,000 Euros and up to six months in jail.
Not that you are likely to get caught, but nevertheless if you do, the punishment is worse than if you'd just stolen a car or burgled a house.
 
lightning said:
Oh, and it's also illegal !! And the authorities take a fairly dim view of it, in France the fine is an absurd 30,000 Euros and up to six months in jail.
Not that you are likely to get caught, but nevertheless if you do, the punishment is worse than if you'd just stolen a car or burgled a house.
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Did I understand correctly that in France you might get 30 000 Euros fine for hacking the max assist speed on ebike? You guys are more EU than EU itself. Didn't know that we have something more stupid than US laws regarding riding your bike on someone else land.
 
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