Advice needed! Torn between Rail+ & Fuel+

[EdP]

Hi all.

Apologies if this subject has been done to death but just after some opinions of folk on here who have, ideally ridden both.

I have just ordered my first emtb which Is a fuel+ but will be about another month before it arrives. I’m a big lad weighing in at 101kg.

I only really ride my local trails, don’t do jumps or anything too gnarly and usually ride solo. I also want to keep fit and I run a couple of times a week. So…….the fuel+ seemed like the obvious choice. I’ve recently started looking at the Rail+ and looks like it could be a lot of fun with many riders who love them. I’ve spoken to the bike shop who advised I could change my mind if I wanted to with the added bonus I would get the Rail a lot sooner.

In a nutshell some different opinions would be great to hear as I’m still undecided.

Cheers
Ed

 

[irie]

If you have a Rail+ you can turn down assistance to be similar to that available from a Fuel+, but have more available should you want it.

 

[EdP]

Thanks for your reply. It’s certainly a consideration and one I didn’t think of tbh.

 

[dotcodotuk]

Apologies if this subject has been done to death but just after some opinions of folk on here who have, ideally ridden both.

No demo bikes for another 30-ish days, right? I’m waiting as well...

I only really ride my local trails, don’t do jumps or anything too gnarly and usually ride solo. I also want to keep fit and I run a couple of times a week. So…….the fuel+ seemed like the obvious choice. I’ve recently started looking at the Rail+ and looks like it could be a lot of fun with many riders who love them. I’ve spoken to the bike shop who advised I could change my mind if I wanted to with the added bonus I would get the Rail a lot sooner.

I think the Fuel+ fits you better.

Yes, you can turn down the power on the Rail... but you can't remove the extra weight it carries over the Fuel+ and the TQ motor sounds like it would fit your riding better - have you tested a bike with one?

I love the TQ for the ability to have a very natural-feeling ride, just with some extra assistance, plus the option to play around with battery sizes and thus bike weight or even ride without the battery at all. Huge advantage for me over a Bosch.

I have no need for a full-fat EMTB, but I do need some extra help on longer days when I run out of puff on repeated climbs/loops/laps/whatever. And the range on the HPR60 is meant to be immense.

Thus for me, the TQ system works far better than the Bosch does and that's what I'm going for... eventually.

 

[Plummet]

At 100kg you are wasting your time with 360wh battery.

Look at the rail+ with 800wh or if you want mid power look at the slash+ with 580hw battery.
Sure the slash is a bigger build than the exe. But you are a bigger bloke and need the stronger components and bigger battery.

Dont listen to skinny light guys telling you to buy a small battery e-bike. You will literally get 20-30% less range than them.

 

[EdP]

No demo bikes for another 30-ish days, right? I’m waiting as well...

I think the Fuel+ fits you better.

Yes, you can turn down the power on the Rail... but you can't remove the extra weight it carries over the Fuel+ and the TQ motor sounds like it would fit your riding better - have you tested a bike with one?

I love the TQ for the ability to have a very natural-feeling ride, just with some extra assistance, plus the option to play around with battery sizes and thus bike weight or even ride without the battery at all. Huge advantage for me over a Bosch.

I have no need for a full-fat EMTB, but I do need some extra help on longer days when I run out of puff on repeated climbs/loops/laps/whatever. And the range on the HPR60 is meant to be immense.

Thus for me, the TQ system works far better than the Bosch does and that's what I'm going for... eventually.

Many thanks for your reply and kind of echoes where I’m at with it too. I did have a quick spin on a fuel+ and loved it.

 

[EdP]

At 100kg you are wasting your time with 360wh battery.

Look at the rail+ with 800wh or if you want mid power look at the slash+ with 580hw battery.
Sure the slash is a bigger build than the exe. But you are a bigger bloke and need the stronger components and bigger battery.

Dont listen to skinny light guys telling you to buy a small battery e-bike. You will literally get 20-30% less range than them.

Many thanks for your reply. Certainly my weight is one of the reasons for considering the Rail+

The fuel+ comes with the newer 60nm motor and 580wh battery, plus the 160wh range extender is thrown in for the price so battery range isn’t so much of an issue.

 

[Stihldog]

I have both the Rail 9.7 (635w) and the Fuel EXE (360w). (and I’m one of those skinny guys you heard about (72kg)).

Both are medium size, exact same geometry, ones red and the other is gray. .

The Rail is an extremely capable Tank. Does anything and climbs like crazy.
The Fuel EXE (TQ 50) is a DH trail machine.
I can’t decide which one is my favourite. The terrain decides for me.

 

[EdP]

I have both the Rail 9.7 (635w) and the Fuel EXE (360w). (and I’m one of those skinny guys you heard about (72kg)).

Both are medium size, exact same geometry, ones red and the other is gray. .

The Rail is an extremely capable Tank. Does anything and climbs like crazy.
The Fuel EXE (TQ 50) is a DH trail machine.
I can’t decide which one is my favourite. The terrain decides for me.

Appreciate the reply and a great insight to how you use both bikes. I’d probably have both if I could

I reckon I’ve watched pretty much every video on these bikes so far

 

[dotcodotuk]

Look at the rail+ with 800wh or if you want mid power look at the slash+ with 580hw battery.
Sure the slash is a bigger build than the exe. But you are a bigger bloke and need the stronger components and bigger battery.

Oh come on, you're acting like the Fuel+ is an XC race bike. Do us all a favour.

A Fuel+ LX with 38s and a DHX2 will be OTT for almost everywhere in the UK, aside from double black tracks at some bike parks and some spicy off-piste stuff in the middle of nowhere. For everyday riding in 90% of places, the Fuel+ is all the bike anyone needs. If, and this is a big if, they are happy with the way the TQ system works and delivers power.

The Slash+ is stupid amounts of fun though, despite being massively overbiked for most places anyone in the UK is going to ride.

Dont listen to skinny light guys telling you to buy a small battery e-bike. You will literally get 20-30% less range than them.

Ignoring the fact that the Fuel+ would have a 580Wh as standard, an 88kg rider on a TQ HPR60 bike only used 34% of a 580Wh battery on a 13-mile long loop with 1,300-feet of elevation, compared to 97% of a 400Wh battery on a Bosch SX.

The 2025 Loam Wolf Lightweight eMTB Shootout

theloamwolf.com

Yes, it was slower - but all the current evidence points to the TQ being stupid efficient.

And yes, the Rail+ is a Performance Line CX and thus has more power on tap and could theoretically be as if not more efficient, but we've not seen the numbers... or have we?

Either way, I don't think anyone should be worrying about the HPR60 being low-range. Quite the opposite.

 

[dotcodotuk]

I’m a big lad weighing in at 101kg.

This time last year, I was 99kg. I'm down to my normal-ish weight of 83kg, just from calorie counting and regular exercise.

Hugely biased and talking purely from personal opinion here but if your goal is to lose weight and get fit, don't overlook the ability the TQ-equipped bikes have to use them without a battery. Huge selling point for me.

A Fuel+ LX 9.9 then becomes a normal-ish weight for an enduro-y bike, clocking in around 17.5kg. That's less than my current 170/170 bike!

 

[Hob Nob]

Either way, I don't think anyone should be worrying about the HPR60 being low-range. Quite the opposite.

I have a Gen5 Bosch (and an Avinox) bike alongside my HPR60 bike.

If you are riding with other lower powered bikes in similar modes, or using with people on naturally aspirated bikes, it will do big range & elevation. I got nearly 50km & 1700m out of it riding dirty off piste in the S.Wales valleys yesterday. I think in the summer when the going is better & exclusively in low, I could get over 2000m of elevation out of it, both rides would be a brutal sufferfest for me to do on a pedal bike now.

But, if you ride with full power e-bikes, you need to run it in high to even stay close to, and even so, you have to push hard on the climbs even when they are in Tour+ for example (unless they have it turned down). Then the range elevation gets hammered, I don’t see much more than 1000-1100m where an 800w Bosch will do 2000+m in Tour+, unless you’re a big lump.

That said, if it’s just you, the modularity of the new Fuel is appealing- it can be a reasonably light & responsive trail bike, with the kind of liveliness only a big travel bike can dream of, or can give you a full enduro bike experience if you want.

If I only had to have one ebike, I’d struggle to look past something with the TQ motor. I’m fortunate enough that I don’t have to make that choice, only in the sense of what bike I am planing on riding.

 

[dotcodotuk]

But, if you ride with full power e-bikes, you need to run it in high to even stay close to, and even so, you have to push hard on the climbs even when they are in Tour+ for example (unless they have it turned down). Then the range elevation gets hammered, I don’t see much more than 1000-1100m where an 800w Bosch will do 2000+m in Tour+, unless you’re a big lump.

The person who asked the initial question does mostly ride solo.

But equally, what happened to courtesy and camaraderie when riding bikes? Before e-bikes were a thing, everyone had different levels of fitness and climbed at a different pace. You adapt your riding to the group's cadence and/or ride with people who ride at your pace/level.

Talk about e-bikes seems to always end up coming down to whose bike can go the fastest, which baffles me. You don't get this with other, similar leisure activities.

 

[irie]

Talk about e-bikes seems to always end up coming down to whose bike can go the fastest, which baffles me. You don't get this with other, similar leisure activities.

What other similar leisure activities are not competitive?

 

[dotcodotuk]

What other similar leisure activities are not competitive?

Well, all of them unless you happen to be participating in said activity with a bunch of pricks.

Take enduro moto as a good example here. Nobody I know is going off riding in the woods with a bunch of other people who just braaaaaaaaappp off into the distance and leave the rest of the group behind. Well, not if they want to remain part of that riding group anyway.

So why is it such a common thing for e-bikes to suggest that not having the bigger/better motor will result in being left behind? Baffles me that it seems to crop all all the time as a downside of not having a comparable bike to the people you might be riding with.

 

[irie]

What other similar leisure activities are not competitive?

Well, all of them unless you happen to be participating in said activity with a bunch of pricks.

Take enduro moto as a good example here. Nobody I know is going off riding in the woods with a bunch of other people who just braaaaaaaaappp off into the distance and leave the rest of the group behind. Well, not if they want to remain part of that riding group anyway.

So why is it such a common thing for e-bikes to suggest that not having the bigger/better motor will result in being left behind? Baffles me that it seems to crop all all the time as a downside of not having a comparable bike to the people you might be riding with.

Correct.

 

[Stihldog]

Appreciate the reply and a great insight to how you use both bikes. I’d probably have both if I could

I reckon I’ve watched pretty much every video on these bikes so far

If I could only have one EMTB I would have another set of wheels and tires for that bike. (I do for the Fuel EXE). It does cost a bit more ($1000) and it’s fairly easy and quick to switch a set of wheels out. I tuck those away somewhere in the bike cave.

My Rail has good hubs and aggressive tires. So does my Fuel EXE. But I have a spare set wheels and better rolling tires for light trails and pavement. (On standby for the Fuel.) The wheels are OEM alloy. The hubs are OEM Bontrager. The tires are suitable for light trails, pavement or riding with my wife. She probably doesn’t even know that I switch the tires and wheels when I ride with her.

The Maxxis Assigia are for the trails on this mountain only. I wouldn’t ride those on pavement and are over-kill for light trails.

I get better speeds and distance on the Fuel EXE, but when I switch to the Maxxis Assigia I can climb to crazy elevations and tackle any DH trail on this mountain. I don’t worry about battery levels because I know gravity is my friend.

 

[Plummet]

Oh come on, you're acting like the Fuel+ is an XC race bike. Do us all a favour.

A Fuel+ LX with 38s and a DHX2 will be OTT for almost everywhere in the UK, aside from double black tracks at some bike parks and some spicy off-piste stuff in the middle of nowhere. For everyday riding in 90% of places, the Fuel+ is all the bike anyone needs. If, and this is a big if, they are happy with the way the TQ system works and delivers power.

The Slash+ is stupid amounts of fun though, despite being massively overbiked for most places anyone in the UK is going to ride.


Ignoring the fact that the Fuel+ would have a 580Wh as standard, an 88kg rider on a TQ HPR60 bike only used 34% of a 580Wh battery on a 13-mile long loop with 1,300-feet of elevation, compared to 97% of a 400Wh battery on a Bosch SX.

The 2025 Loam Wolf Lightweight eMTB Shootout

theloamwolf.com

Yes, it was slower - but all the current evidence points to the TQ being stupid efficient.

And yes, the Rail+ is a Performance Line CX and thus has more power on tap and could theoretically be as if not more efficient, but we've not seen the numbers... or have we?

Either way, I don't think anyone should be worrying about the HPR60 being low-range. Quite the opposite.

My bad, I looked up the wrong spec obviously. Thought the exe was 360wh which would be useless for a 100kg bloke.

Even so 100kg bloke needs more power and battery to go the same speed/range as a lighter bloke.


So average dude on exe would = heavy dude on rail.

My advice still stands. Big guy.... go full power.

 

[EdP]

This time last year, I was 99kg. I'm down to my normal-ish weight of 83kg, just from calorie counting and regular exercise.

Hugely biased and talking purely from personal opinion here but if your goal is to lose weight and get fit, don't overlook the ability the TQ-equipped bikes have to use them without a battery. Huge selling point for me.

A Fuel+ LX 9.9 then becomes a normal-ish weight for an enduro-y bike, clocking in around 17.5kg. That's less than my current 170/170 bike!

Yes, riding the bike will certainly be part of my fitness workouts, well that’s the plan anyway

 

[EdP]

I have a Gen5 Bosch (and an Avinox) bike alongside my HPR60 bike.

If you are riding with other lower powered bikes in similar modes, or using with people on naturally aspirated bikes, it will do big range & elevation. I got nearly 50km & 1700m out of it riding dirty off piste in the S.Wales valleys yesterday. I think in the summer when the going is better & exclusively in low, I could get over 2000m of elevation out of it, both rides would be a brutal sufferfest for me to do on a pedal bike now.

But, if you ride with full power e-bikes, you need to run it in high to even stay close to, and even so, you have to push hard on the climbs even when they are in Tour+ for example (unless they have it turned down). Then the range elevation gets hammered, I don’t see much more than 1000-1100m where an 800w Bosch will do 2000+m in Tour+, unless you’re a big lump.

That said, if it’s just you, the modularity of the new Fuel is appealing- it can be a reasonably light & responsive trail bike, with the kind of liveliness only a big travel bike can dream of, or can give you a full enduro bike experience if you want.

If I only had to have one ebike, I’d struggle to look past something with the TQ motor. I’m fortunate enough that I don’t have to make that choice, only in the sense of what bike I am planing on riding.

I normally ride solo so I don’t really need to factor in riding with others. That’s not to say that won’t be the case in the future but with work and family life I don’t really have set times to get out. Many thanks for your reply. Some great info coming in

 

[EdP]

My bad, I looked up the wrong spec obviously. Thought the exe was 360wh which would be useless for a 100kg bloke.

Even so 100kg bloke needs more power and battery to go the same speed/range as a lighter bloke.


So average dude on exe would = heavy dude on rail.

My advice still stands. Big guy.... go full power.

Appreciate your input fella

 

[irie]

@EdP you say you're 101kg - you need full fat eg. Rail+. Simples.

 

[irie]

At 100kg you are wasting your time with 360wh battery.

Look at the rail+ with 800wh or if you want mid power look at the slash+ with 580hw battery.
Sure the slash is a bigger build than the exe. But you are a bigger bloke and need the stronger components and bigger battery.

Dont listen to skinny light guys telling you to buy a small battery e-bike. You will literally get 20-30% less range than them.

This ^^^

 

[Emailsucks98]

I only really ride my local trails, don’t do jumps or anything too gnarly and usually ride solo. I also want to keep fit and I run a couple of times a week. So…….the fuel+ seemed like the obvious choice. I’ve recently started looking at the Rail+ and looks like it could be a lot of fun with many riders who love them.

It is a tough call. If you're riding solo, I think you'll be happy with the TQ HPR60 motor & 580wh battery (which is the Fuel+). It's when riding with full-power bikes, with them in trail/boost modes, that the power difference really stands out.

A full-power eBike turned down, and a SL eBike are totally different. Riding a heavier bike slowly to get the workout doesn't make sense in practice. It'd be like wearing ankle weights, just not an option you're likely to choose.
You absolutely get a better workout on an SL ebike, there's no way around it since the power is limited.

A full power motor probably has a durability advantage.

If you are torn I would also consider other lighter full-power eBikes.

 

[EdP]

Thanks for your input, much appreciated

 

[EdP]

So, some great advice has been posted so far. It looks like the Fuel+ would suit the riding I intend to do (solo, local trails) but the Rail+ would be more suited to my weight. Plenty to mull over.

Hopefully a few more opinions will come in.

Many thanks to all who has contributed so far

 

[Plummet]

It is a tough call. If you're riding solo, I think you'll be happy with the TQ HPR60 motor & 580wh battery (which is the Fuel+). It's when riding with full-power bikes, with them in trail/boost modes, that the power difference really stands out.

A full-power eBike turned down, and a SL eBike are totally different. Riding a heavier bike slowly to get the workout doesn't make sense in practice. It'd be like wearing ankle weights, just not an option you're likely to choose.
You absolutely get a better workout on an SL ebike, there's no way around it since the power is limited.

A full power motor probably has a durability advantage.

If you are torn I would also consider other lighter full-power eBikes.

I disagree, motor output is not an indicator of work done.

It's rider input that matters.

Some of the easiest rides ive done have been in eco/tour/motor off and some of the hardest extreme riding i have done have been full power turbo hammer fests.

 

[Scott_123]

At 100kg you are wasting your time with 360wh battery.

Look at the rail+ with 800wh or if you want mid power look at the slash+ with 580hw battery.
Sure the slash is a bigger build than the exe. But you are a bigger bloke and need the stronger components and bigger battery.

Dont listen to skinny light guys telling you to buy a small battery e-bike. You will literally get 20-30% less range than them.

I hate to say it but I agree with real personal experience. I have a Canyon OnFly (Higher spec model) and it is an awesome bike but with me weighing just under 200lb the 360 battery goes too quickly. I ride the trails from my driveway but I find I need a slight charge every day to do the same ride the next day. I will keep the bike because it is a beast especially in chunk and downhill.

I picked up the Amflow Carbon Pro recently And it is actually 2lb lighter than my OnFly. Granted the OnFly has a Fox 38 and aluminum wheels but with a 360W battery and a little TQ50 the Amflow folks did a stellar job To be sLightly less weight with a 800WH battery.

My Neighbor has the same bike you ordered and loves it, but he barely weighs 160lb. I have ridden it and the Trek is a great bike.

 

[EdP]

I hate to say it but I agree with real personal experience. I have a Canyon OnFly (Higher spec model) and it is an awesome bike but with me weighing just under 200lb the 360 battery goes too quickly. I ride the trails from my driveway but I find I need a slight charge every day to do the same ride the next day. I will keep the bike because it is a beast especially in chunk and downhill.

I picked up the Amflow Carbon Pro recently And it is actually 2lb lighter than my OnFly. Granted the OnFly has a Fox 38 and aluminum wheels but with a 360W battery and a little TQ50 the Amflow folks did a stellar job To be sLightly less weight with a 800WH battery.

My Neighbor has the same bike you ordered and loves it, but he barely weighs 160lb. I have ridden it and the Trek is a great bike.

I would love to get an Amflow but out of my price range unfortunately. Especially the pro. The fuel+ has a 580wh battery with 160wh extender and the newer HPR60 motor. I ruled out the older Exe straight away because of the smaller battery etc.

I am going to try and test ride a Rail+ if I can

 

[Ribinrobin]

owned many SLs and the trek fuel exe (a sl bike also "super light") im 90kg ran with it in trail mostly. They are great bikes, choosing between the rail and the fuel is down to this. The rail is a emtb it dont ride like a normal bike (ill await the comments) it rides like a ebike, big strong, fast. A fuel however rides like a normal bike, at times it feels like its not even on. Alot of people will test bikes on road and think the powers enough but on trail it doesnt feel alot. So if you want to keep fit and plan on staying a solo rider or riding with normal bikes the fuel will keep you there. The rail can also do this but no matter how much you turn the power down it will not ride like the fuel or engage how the tq motor does.

if i didnt spend alot of time on my normal bike the fuel + would be my go too. I have a full power one just as i only ride emtb with my friends.

Hard choice but the SL bikes are alot of fun solo riding and will keep you fit!
if i had the terrain for it i would love a slash +