Dutch trial of 12mph bike lanes - speed and power limit discussion

[Roughshod]

Trial of 12mph bike lane speed limit grinds gears of Dutch cyclists

Increase in road deaths amid rise of e-bikes prompts Houten to test willingness of freedom-loving cyclists to slow down

www.theguardian.com

I'm guessing a lot of users on here are generally just transporting their bike to trails rather than cycling them on the road a great deal but thought it still might make an interesting topic as speed limits get discussed a lot.

I commute on a Fazua powered electric gravel bike, usually along country B roads which get busy around rush hour. There's a few hills along the route and I can end up building up a bigger queue of traffic behind me. I tend to pedal over the assist limit for a fair chunk of the way with the limit at 15.5mph. On the uphills I'm not reaching the limit, so there's a use benefit here for more powerful motors. The faster I'm cycling the less impatient drivers get to try and get by. There's been some very close calls and a lot of dubious overtaking on blind corners.

Even going over the assist limit I still get overtaken pretty regularly by lycra clad riders on faster unassisted road bikes. I think a case can be made here that a higher assist speed limit would be safe and may actually improve safety.

That being said it also makes sense to have a lower speed limit as outlined in the article, especially when there's a history of cycling accidents in built up busy areas with poor visibility. There are different speed limits on sections and types of roads and whilst people argue about those limits, it's fairly universally accepted that it makes sense to have different limits for different situations. I think it makes sense to have the same for e-bike usage as well.

One quote in the article from someone riding an normal pedal bike did point out that they don't know the exact speed they are going due to not having any sort of speedometer. That obviously makes it very hard to police speed limits for all cyclists. I'd like to think as a society we can trust the common sense of the majority and then punish those who are obviously flagrantly ignoring sensibilities, like we do with speeding motorists. There are some roads around me that have a sign that flashes up the speed of motorists as they come up to it, these could be used for locations such as outlined in the article.

I've seen posts on here bemoaning motors cutting out on trails coming up to certain features / jumps and that it's a safety issue there. You've also got heavier setups like e-cargo bikes transporting goods, or parents doing a school run with multiple children aboard where a more powerful motor is helpful.

I think every e-bike has different power assist limits, I can't see why different speed limits could be introduced as well or instead of and the rider selects the appropriate one for the use case. Obviously speed limit motor cut offs are already software controlled on e-bikes already.

There certainly seems to be enough data globally from the amount of e-bikes in use for quite a number of years now. I'd love if there was a sensible discussion on the use cases and benefits that a varied approach to both power levels and speed limits. Unfortunately when it comes to bikes, society as a whole doesn't seem to be able to have sensible discussions (perhaps in part fuelled by a biased media).

We trust drivers with more dangerous vehicles capable of exceeding legal limits and accept there are a section of drivers who abuse those limits. I'd like to think we could do the same with cyclists, especially if it ends up getting more people on bikes when there are also benefits to society to do so. From the health increases, decreased pollution, accidents are less damaging and decreased wear to road infrastructure.

TL;DR, I hope this leads to changes where there's a more granular and sensible approach to e-bike power and speed limits

 

[Fangs2k]

You can already buy a pedal assist bike that can go over 15.5mph (speed pedelec), it’s just that here in the UK it’s treated like a moped and needs an MoT, registration, insurance and you need to wear a helmet.

Unfortunately, there’s never a sensible discussion ref ‘cyclists’ in the UK, or if there is I’ve never heard one.

It seems that the solution to the problem you raise is already there, but few people will want to jump through the hoops to do it.

 

[Roughshod]

Those do exist for road rides but you then can't take them other places that bikes are allowed, not that being allowed or not stops some people.

 

[Fangs2k]

Those do exist for road rides but you then can't take them other places that bikes are allowed, not that being allowed or not stops some people.

Well this is the crux of the issue isn’t it, when does a ‘bicycle’ (even a pedal assist one like the ones we all ride now) cease to become a bicycle?

In a recent e-bike parliamentary bill tabled by an MP that didn’t make it anywhere, within it was a proposal to raise the assist limit, but that was quietly dropped after the ‘cycling lobby’ said they didn’t want it as it risked blurring the lines between cycling and e-motorbikes.

Not necessarily my view, but I guess that they’re defending the right to just jump on a bicycle at any age and use it without any encumbrances like insurance and registration etc, and pretty much anywhere you want to.

 

[Roughshod]

Yep, pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Unfortunately as a society right now having sensible and rational conversations about a lot of subjects doesn't seem possible.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

.....
One quote in the article from someone riding an normal pedal bike did point out that they don't know the exact speed they are going due to not having any sort of speedometer. That obviously makes it very hard to police speed limits for all cyclists. I'd like to think as a society we can trust the common sense of the majority and then punish those who are obviously flagrantly ignoring sensibilities, like we do with speeding motorists. There are some roads around me that have a sign that flashes up the speed of motorists as they come up to it, these could be used for locations such as outlined in the article.

In theory sure, but someone opposing this legislation will argue, "if the problem is traveling faster than 12 mph, then it should apply to all cyclist. However, non-ebike cyclists have no way to gauge their speed reliably."

I'm not aware of a requirement for a speedometer on ebikes either.... granted many do. How does one actually enforce this law. I've never heard of anyone getting a ticket for speeding on a bicycle here in the US.