Levo Gen 3 '21 Turbo Levo to '22 Gen 3 sizing question

[Stan23]

I'm a size medium on my '21 Turbo Levo and the fit is absolutely perfect. Looking to buy a '22 Gen 3 model and debating between S2 and S3. When going through the size chart, it looks like my 2nd gen bike in Medium is closer to an S2 (small) than the S3 (medium) in regards to reach and overall wheelbase.

Question for those that had the 2nd gen and now the 3rd gen; how was your sizing?

 

[ScottWest]

At 5-11, I went from a "21 L that I really liked to a "22 S4 that I really like. No issues. I feel the reach numbers can be deceiving.

 

[maramouse]

I'm a size medium on my '21 Turbo Levo and the fit is absolutely perfect. Looking to buy a '22 Gen 3 model and debating between S2 and S3. When going through the size chart, it looks like my 2nd gen bike in Medium is closer to an S2 (small) than the S3 (medium) in regards to reach and overall wheelbase.

Question for those that had the 2nd gen and now the 3rd gen; how was your sizing?

Hi, I am 165 cm and generally use small frames, buying the turbo levo gen3, I chose s2 and in my opinion, the best choice for you is s3, the new model have longer reach in every size.

 

[emtber]

I'm new to emtbs and don't know your size or experience, so I'll tell you everything. Highly advise that you test ride both an S2 and S3 as they feel very different. Had not ridden for many years and bought my first ebike, almost a month ago, the Gen 3 Expert, S3.

First impression of the S3 was that it felt a bit long as I had a lot of pressure on my hands, but I was kinda use to that as most of my previous riding was on road bikes and a long reach mtb. But still, it felt like it might be tiring and uncomfortable, leaning forward for long rides. Otherwise, the bike felt neutral in it's handling, not hard to turn, or super easy either, just comfortable.

My main concern was the standover height. I'm about 172 cm and my inseam length is 76 cm. And although my height is right in the middle of the S3 size chart, the top tube is right up against my crotch when standing and it kind of worried me. I didn't understand how Specialized said to choose by preferred riding style, not standover height. So, I tried an S2, but it felt almost the same height between my legs.

The differences I did feel were with the handling and reach. Because the reach was shorter, I sat more upright with a bit less pressure on my hands, so it was more comfortable. Also, it was much easier to turn. As I leaned from side to side, the bike easily responded. Very intuitive handling, great I thought.

This is fun. So it seemed like the S2 was a better choice, but then the fitter watching me ride asked me to stand up on the pedals and see how it felt then. Being a newbie, I didn't realize that was a more appropriate position when going downhill. When I stood up, my whole body went forward, of course, and then the bars felt too close to me, like I could easily go over the front, and also the grips were too close to my legs when I turned.

The bike felt too small and the fitter said, to his eyes, the S3 looked a better fit. Being inexperienced, I had a hard time deciding on the right size, so I went with the fitter and Specialize's chart. I ignored the standover height. On the rides that followed, getting on and off the bike were awful. When I came to a stop with the dropper post fully up, it was a long way down to the ground to lean the bike sideways, land on one foot, and not hit the top tube.

I was always looking for a place to stop near something elevated to put my foot on. Finally, I found that if I dropped the seat post before stopping, I could stay on the seat and rest on the balls of both feet ok. So I can stop comfortably, if it's planned and the ground is level. But if I have to stop and dismount unexpectedly with the seat up, I may have to lay the bike on the ground if I can't hold it up. I put the flip chip to low, but the difference in height is negligible, although the handling feels a bit more stable.

I have not ridden on trails yet as i want to be more confident before doing so. I've seen how easy it is to crash on youtube and have fallen on concrete several times already. Got body armor now. I am concerned with the standover height when I go off road and ride on uneven terrain. It will be much harder to safely put a foot down solidly on soft ground that is not level.

When I read the Owner's Manual, it says not to ride a bike that has no clearance as it is unsafe, and off road riders should have at least 4 inches of clearance. I am of average build, so there is no way anyone from 5'2" to my height, 5'8", will have any top tube clearance over an S2 or S3, let alone 4". This is wrong of Specialize to market S-Sizing and tell us to ignore standover height, and then cover themselves with the safety info in the Manual, which one will not read until after buying the bike.

The engineers know this is an issue, but they just want to sell more bikes. I've found that other emtbs are built this way too, but not all. Otherwise, the bike handles great and I've had no functional issues. It is very fun to ride, but is weighty when it comes to lifting the front wheel. Just be aware of the height. No other bike I wanted was available, so I didn't have much choice if I wanted a bike now.

Also, I was anxious to get a bike and start riding, and I was excited to actually find the one I wanted. So, I figured the fitter and Specialized knew what was best, and I made the purchase. I hope I don't get hurt. My next bike will have some clearance and perhaps 27.5, front and back. I hope this long read was of value to you. Good luck.

 

[Stan23]

^^ Whoa wall of text Honestly, the stand over height shouldn't be of concern on any modern mtb, if you are struggling to get your foot on the ground, and falling over on pavement, I suggest getting a small HT and practice it around until you are comfortable riding a bike.

None of what you mentioned is an issue with 99% of mtb riders out there, so I honestly suggest you get a cheap HT bike and practice on that first. Definitely don't hit the trails if you're not yet comfortable stopping on a bike!!

 

[Mikerb]

Reach can be misleading because it does not take account of the seat tube angle. From my "tuning" of my Whyte E180 by fitting higher rise bars it does seem to me that one of the most important aspects of mtb fit is how balanced you are on the bike in terms of weight front to back. That of course varies somewhat between being seated and being in the ready position. I like the situation where I am "in the middle" of the bike and can easily rock slightly forward or back to alter the weight distribution on either the front or rear wheel. That can be tuned to a degree with saddle rail adjustment, different rise bars, different length stems, and different stem stack heights.......provided it is not too extreme in the first place.

I would have thought not being able to get your feet on the ground (other than perhaps tip-toe) with a fully raised saddle is pretty much standard......but then who has the saddle at full height offroad?? You should definitely be a ble to stand over the toptube with feet flat to the floor though.

Sometimes quoted but not always is the top tube length (horizontal) between seat tube and stem and that is probably a better size guide than reach.

 

[emtber]

Thx for your responses guys. Really appreciate your input as I don't know any mtb riders, yet. Am plunging in on my own.

So Stan23, how's riding a HT bike going to change what I do to get off the bike? I have a hardtail with 26" tires and the top tube is not an issue, and if it's top tube were up in my crotch, what could I practice to get comfortable with that? It's really hard for me to understand how 99% of riders have no issue with standover height and dismounting on an S2 and 3. Do you know only riders taller than me? Not all riders are 5'10" or taller. With my 30" unseam, the top tube cannot get any higher w/o pushing my boys hard up into me. What am I supposed to practice to be able to get off easily, quickly and safely? At 5'8" I am not tall, but seem to be of average build for my height, so anyone shorter than me will not be able to stand on two flat feet over the S3 unless their legs are disproportionately long, really long. And the S2, for riders down to 5'2", is not significantly lower. So how do all the shorter riders dismount without jumping off, especially on uneven terrain? Does everyone lean their bike and step off only on the high side? Sure, that will work, as long as the ground is solid and not slippery. Anyone with a 28" inseam will not be able to standover an S2 or S3 with both feet flat. I can barely do it with 30". How do the 99% with legs shorter than mine accommodate the high tube? Just telling me it's not a problem for 99% doesn't make the top tube lower. Again, what am I supposed to practice? Hopping to the side onto 1 leg? Sorry, yes, that's sarcastic, but it's a real question too. More specific advice would be greatly appreciated. Can you stand over your bike with 2 flat feet? If you can't, what do you do?

Mikerb, thx for your thoughts as well. Even tho I am in the middle of the S3 range, I could feel that I needed to push my seat forward all the way, as I kept slipping forward off the saddle, so now my rear stays in place and there is a little less pressure on my hands. Gel gloves help too. I also have the flip chip in the low setting for a marginally lower standover height, a more upright riding position and less forward pressure. I think there are spacers provided to raise the bars. As you suggested, that will help shift my weight back a bit more towards the middle as well. I may explore other ways to take pressure off my hands, but I want to learn how the bike's design geo works before I start altering it too much. I understand what you mean about feeling centered between fore and aft so one can shift and weight the tires as desired. I'm enjoying learning about weighting, and it's effect on traction, skidding, climbing and corning. This is all new to me, especially for offroad, which I have done very little of as yet.

I didn't mean to say that I expect to be able to stand on 2 flat feet with the saddle up. Of course not. Sorry if I wrote or implied that. With the saddle dropped, I can comfortably come to a stop and stay on the balls of both feet, but nowhere near flat footed while on the saddle. I can live with that tho. What's challenging is coming to a stop like that, and then stepping forward off the saddle and stand over the top tube with both feet flat on the ground. On pavement, I can do that slowly and I'm ok, but just. But if the ground is at all uneven, I have to be sure to lean the bike and step off onto the high side, and stand on one leg. A two legged stance is impossible for me if one foot is higher than the other.

Fellas, sorry if I'm expressing with too much frustration. I didn't expect to have this basic problem after spending 11K. It's very annoying.

 

[Mikerb]

tbh I am not clear where your issue is. If you can get both feet down ( you said balls of your feet) whilst on the saddle with the saddle slammed, you must be a ble to have both feet quite comfortably on the ground when standing forward of the saddle over the top tube. It is quite normal to have to slam the saddle if seated before having to stop, for example, to open a gate etc. It is also quite normal to have to slide forward off the ( slammed ) saddle once at a standstill. A 650b ( 27.5) equipped bike will have a smaller overall standover.........29 ers tend to be taller ( even just 29er front).
Dropper posts always leave some of the bottom of the post clear of the seat tube so if you want the slammed saddle height to be a little lower, there may be room to insert the dropper post a little further into the seat tube. That will reduce it overall height to the same degree when the saddle is fully raised of course but the point is there is room for some adjustment there.

When I bought my wife ( 5ft 5) a Cube Access hardtail and started taking her out to offroad trails her only previous experience of cycling was on "shopping" bikes so not used to the fact that she culd not reach the ground when seated. The bike when bought had no dropper post, so I told her she had to slide forward off the saddle ( and change down a couple gears) before stopping. That did not prove too successful so I fitted a dropper post to her bike. She now quite instinctively slams the saddle and changes down a couple of gears or more before stopping. Even with the saddle fully slammed she is still just on tip toe but that gives enough time for her to slide forward off the saddle.

 

[Stan23]

snip

First off to give you some perspective, i've been riding mountain bikes off/on since 1993. Been riding and tracking motorcycles since 2004. I'm a solid size M on most/all of my bicycles. I am 5' 7" and have a 29" inseam.

OK I get it. Your issue is with the standover height and how you don't feel comfortable with both feed on the ground and legs between the top tube..

First things first, you bought a 160mm travel 29" bike. The top tube height is where it's going to be.. We can't change that. Probably not possible to go any lower with today's geometry and the the ability to support piggyback shocks and water bottle. For your/our size, you'd be hard pressed to find any modern FS bike even short travel bikes where you can safely plant your feet down without having your nuts graze the top tube. The modern sloping top tube design just doesn't support this.

That said, I will say that my 5'3" wife with a 28" inseam can't comfortably standover her size small Turbo Levo bike with both feet flat and have clearance--basically same issue as you. What i've said above and you probably choose to ignore is that this is NOT an issue for most riders. When you stop, you generally lower the seat and plant one foot down and one leave one foot on the pedal while having part of your butt cheek at the tip of the saddle with the bike slightly leaned over. At no point if things get hairy would you ever want to take both feet off the pedals and plant them on the ground in front of you straddling the bike. If i'm trying to clear a tough rocky climb and I don't make it, I stick one leg out and plant it on the ground and lean the bike.

Anyways, to me it sounds like you have a technique and a lack of experience issue, not a bike sizing issue.

 

[Motoxfreak]

I am 5'9" and I have a 2020 Sworks medium and a 2022 Levo Expert and both fit great!

 

[Stan23]

I am 5'9" and I have a 2020 Sworks medium and a 2022 Levo Expert and both fit great!

Awesome, thanks. Since I have a medium gen 2, sounds like I'll be good on an S3 gen 3.

 

[emtber]

Gentlemen, I want to express my sincere gratitude for your efforts to help a stranger cope with issues. Thank you very much your time and effort to compose detailed answers, so I can have some insights that only experience can provide. I read your responses carefully and will put your experience into practice.

The bike shop set my dropper post at max for my height, like a road bike, but the sales guy said he doesn't ride off road at road bike height as off road bumps can push him off his pedal. So I've been adjusting my seat down, but never thought of lowering the entire post into the seat tube, until now, thank you very much! Now I'm much more comfortable when coming to a stop, as well as swinging my leg over to get on and off. Huge difference!

I understand that 99% manage the tube height, so I will stop thinking of this as a shoe that doesn't fit, and more like a big horse that everyone has to mount and dismount. It is what it is, eh? But, I will reiterate, my Specialized Owner's Manual does say that a bike should have at least 4" of top tube clearance to be safe for off road use. And at the same time, their bikes in S2 and S3 sizing cannot provide that clearance for many of the riders for whom they recommend those sizes. It's their text, not my opinion. Make of that what you will. Also, I realize that bikes have a minimum size to accommodate the 29" wheels, suspension, drive chain, frame geometry, all that they are, so maybe this is as low as a 29" mullet can be.

Perhaps I didn't explain my difficulties properly. I can lower the seat and come to a stop fine. After slamming the seat, I can either step off to the side and lean the bike, or step forward carefully and straddle. My problem comes when riding at full saddle height and I have to stop unexpectedly with no time to drop the saddle. With virtually no clearance, I cannot step forward quickly and straddle. I can only lean over, quickly step off sideways and try not to drop my bike. I know, "everyone" has to learn to do this, and it sounds simple. For myself, it's the tipping over from full saddle height while the bike is coming to a stop that make this difficult. I usually find myself off balance, trying to lay the bike down gently and stumbling away without falling. The forward momentum plus the speed of my body coming down from a full up saddle is more force than I can easily stop and balance on with one leg, especially while moving at an angle. That's why I kept harping on about the top tube height, as it took away the option of stepping forward and straddling, an option I would have if the top tube were lower, or my legs were longer. I've come to realize that my only solutions to these situation are, looking ahead to avoid sudden stop situations as much as possible, dropping my seat when it looks like I may be forced to stop and more leg strength. I never mentioned that I will be 69 next month, so fast strong legs are things of the past. However, I'm not overweight, my balance is good and I can feel my body getting stronger as I ride more. Hopefully, I will better avoid and drop my saddle early to prepare, and get stronger with more saddle time.

Thanks again for sharing so much of your experience. Really appreciate your efforts. Good riding to you!

 

[Mikerb]

Gentlemen, I want to express my sincere gratitude for your efforts to help a stranger cope with issues. Thank you very much your time and effort to compose detailed answers, so I can have some insights that only experience can provide. I read your responses carefully and will put your experience into practice.

The bike shop set my dropper post at max for my height, like a road bike, but the sales guy said he doesn't ride off road at road bike height as off road bumps can push him off his pedal. So I've been adjusting my seat down, but never thought of lowering the entire post into the seat tube, until now, thank you very much! Now I'm much more comfortable when coming to a stop, as well as swinging my leg over to get on and off. Huge difference!

I understand that 99% manage the tube height, so I will stop thinking of this as a shoe that doesn't fit, and more like a big horse that everyone has to mount and dismount. It is what it is, eh? But, I will reiterate, my Specialized Owner's Manual does say that a bike should have at least 4" of top tube clearance to be safe for off road use. And at the same time, their bikes in S2 and S3 sizing cannot provide that clearance for many of the riders for whom they recommend those sizes. It's their text, not my opinion. Make of that what you will. Also, I realize that bikes have a minimum size to accommodate the 29" wheels, suspension, drive chain, frame geometry, all that they are, so maybe this is as low as a 29" mullet can be.

Perhaps I didn't explain my difficulties properly. I can lower the seat and come to a stop fine. After slamming the seat, I can either step off to the side and lean the bike, or step forward carefully and straddle. My problem comes when riding at full saddle height and I have to stop unexpectedly with no time to drop the saddle. With virtually no clearance, I cannot step forward quickly and straddle. I can only lean over, quickly step off sideways and try not to drop my bike. I know, "everyone" has to learn to do this, and it sounds simple. For myself, it's the tipping over from full saddle height while the bike is coming to a stop that make this difficult. I usually find myself off balance, trying to lay the bike down gently and stumbling away without falling. The forward momentum plus the speed of my body coming down from a full up saddle is more force than I can easily stop and balance on with one leg, especially while moving at an angle. That's why I kept harping on about the top tube height, as it took away the option of stepping forward and straddling, an option I would have if the top tube were lower, or my legs were longer. I've come to realize that my only solutions to these situation are, looking ahead to avoid sudden stop situations as much as possible, dropping my seat when it looks like I may be forced to stop and more leg strength. I never mentioned that I will be 69 next month, so fast strong legs are things of the past. However, I'm not overweight, my balance is good and I can feel my body getting stronger as I ride more. Hopefully, I will better avoid and drop my saddle early to prepare, and get stronger with more saddle time.

Thanks again for sharing so much of your experience. Really appreciate your efforts. Good riding to you!

OK that makes things clearer!! I am 6ft and have a Levo Comp size large. My inside leg measure is 34 inches. If I came to a stop with the saddle at full height I could not get both feet to the ground!! Just to add to your thoughts............firstly, the only time I would have my saddle on full height would be on tarmac, and riding on the road is something I avoid like the plague!! Offroad on access sections/fireroads and similar I would have my saddle lower but not fully slammed. Once riding a proper trail at speed my saddle is fully slammed unless it is a relatively smooth and level singletrack in which case it would probably be at about half height, and I would be mostly stood on the pedals. The point is that you rarely need full pedal efficiency offroad especially with the motor assist and a lower saddle/slammed saddle gives you far more room to manoeuvre on the bike and deal with technical terrain. (ps I am 71.........age is not a factor!)