2019 E-Sommet shimano 12 speed issues

[dan_65338]

Hi all, so I converted my 2019 Vitus E-Sommet from 10 Speed to shimano 12 speed, a while ago.

From the start I couldn’t set it up properly as the mech is too far round anti-clockwise even with the b-tension screw fully wound out. If you fit the mech without the b-screw stopper plate, then the b-tension screw misses the mech hanger. ??‍It’s impossible to adjust the mech to line up with the line on the back of the cassette.

I noticed that CRC sells a separate hanger 41 for the 2020 model, does anyone know if this works any better with shimano 12 speed over the original Vitus hanger 3?

Vitus have been pretty useless with this, they maintain that Hanger 3 and 41 are the same ? and maintain that I have fitted it wrong. ??‍

 

[Gary]

and maintain that I have fitted it wrong. ??‍

TBF 12 speed does work absolutely fine on the 2019 ESommet so they probably have a point.

 

[Jackware]

What do you mean by 'line up with the back of the cassette'?
The b screw is for adjusting the gap while the other two screws adjust the final top and bottom positions.
You should be able to fine tune it's lateral position by adjusting the cable tension very slightly at the shifter end.

 

[Gary]

He means the line shimano put on the back of the cage for setting up guide pulley gap (ie. b-tension gap)
what he has missed is that chain length also affects the position of the top jockey wheel (and the guide line he is losing sleep over setting up)
too short a chain and that guide line will never line up with the cassette teeth as when the derailleur swings forwards the top jockey wheel rotates DOWNWARDS.

I suggest he Emails vitus to apologise for wasting their time and slagging them off on the internet when they have answered his question correctly [/irony]

 

[dan_65338]

@Gary from the pictures can you see anything obvious to back up your assumption that it’s fitted wrong?

I your right I could lengthen the chain, but the chain wrap would still be wrong.

So why do they sell a different hanger for the 2020 models which come with 12 speed, on the same frame....?

Not had any issues fitting same set up to other bikes, hence why I emailed Vitus.

 

[Gary]

I don't need to even look at pictures to come to the conclusion you've not done a great job of fitting your drivetrain.

Please stop trying to blame others. (ie "them").
12 speed works absolutely fine on any Esommet.

I'd suggest you take it to a good bike shop and pay someone who knows what they are doing to sort out your issues.

 

[dan_65338]

Haha thanks for the help @Gary. I used to work in bike shops before I got a real job, I’m perfectly aware of how to fit mechs.

The post was more about if anyone could advise whether a 2020 mech hanger would be better suited than the 2019 mech hanger.

 

[Gary]

Mechs have changed rather significantly in recent years.
Vitus have told you both hangers are the same. Having owned two Esommets from different years which both shared the same hanger I'd be inclined to believe them. (the seatstays remained the same from 2018 - 2020 so I could be wrong here but other than a new product code I doubt the actual hanger design changed).
All the older frames do work fine with 12speed SRAM or Shimano so the hanger is not your issue.
The fact you're asking here it doesn't seem like you have a whole lot of current experience of the drivetrain you have attempted to fit.
Go see your old work mates and ask them to set it up for you. .

 

[Cisco]

Your sram casette wont be helping however even if you know what your doing I think you will find this video useful for Shimano 12sp installation.

 

[Part timer]

That looks like the b tension is wound too far in, back it off and the top jockey will come upwards towards the cassette. If you watch as you screw it in that will help you see what’s happening to the mech. The wee black line should line up with the teeth then. Can’t remember which tooth or which gear to be in off hand, but internetland should help on that one

 

[dan_65338]

Thanks @Cisco great video from watching it, I’ve installed the same as that guy. Agreed the sramano setup isn’t 100% but it worked better than this on the bike I took it off.

@Part timer that is with the b-tension screw fully wound out. I’ve tried my spare mech hanger and it’s the same.

 

[Jackware]

To start at the basics, you say you're struggling to set the mech up , but what problem / symptoms are you actually having?

 

[Part timer]

Thanks @Cisco great video from watching it, I’ve installed the same as that guy. Agreed the sramano setup isn’t 100% but it worked better than this on the bike I took it off.

@Part timer that is with the b-tension screw fully wound out. I’ve tried my spare mech hanger and it’s the same.

Wind it in rather than out, I’m 99% sure that’ll fix it. The parallelogram and top jockey wheel will swing up towards the cassette which is what you want to happen. That way the line on the back of the cage moves upwards and you line it up with the tooth on the largest sprocket..

EDIT- Actually I'm talking nonsense, now I had a proper look at the pics I see what you mean! The b-tension is certainly way off and is probably the root of the issue- I'd be looking at adding a link to the chain to see if that helps. You could start by trying to push the top jockey into the right position- if it won't go due to the chain being short that should be fairly obvious..

I has a similar setup on my trailbike temporarily (M8100 shifter/mech and gx cassette while waiting for Hope to make a microspline freehub) and it worked fine. It was sensitive to b-tension, but no more than full Shimano.

 

[Dave_h34]

Have you properly measured chain length? It's no longer big-big-plus 2, it's either big-big-plus 5 or 6. It's all very different to how it's been forever and caught me out. All in Shimano tech docs.

 

[dan_65338]

Chain length is +5. I’ve just accepted that sramano only half works compared to a full XT setup. I still maintain that you can’t adjust B-tension to where it should be.

 

[STATO]

I have a 2020 e-Escarpe which uses the same frame as the e-Sommet so i went to have a look at mine as id purchased a #41 hanger as a spare but never tried it. Can confirm its identical to the silver hanger on the frame that looks the same as yours.

Measuring it i got;

• ~30mm c-c for the holes, which is what shimano/sram recommend for MTB.
• The hanger measured ~8.1mm thick, which is slightly over specification, but while that would make the cage sit lower in the biggest sprocket (due to the parallelogram) we are talking ~1-2mm, not the gap you have.
• Angle of the dangle (b-stop), cant really measure, but it looks right and specification allows 25-30 degrees so its likely within that region.

I have a 12s XT on my hardtail running with a sram cassette, the hanger on that is ~27mm. Looking at that bike i found ive actually set the mech/b-tension too close by the line on the shimano mech (and chain is also too short). The old mechanic rule of wrap around the biggest sprocket and add a few links (and more for full sus) needs a couple extre for 12s shimano. Install sheet says 6 extra links (3 inner 3 outer, so 6 pins just to be specific) for a full sus. Seems like it a lot of slack when in 10 tooth, but they can handle it, SRAM is no different.

If you add a few links does that bring the line closer to the cassette for you?