Berd Spokes and Ebikes

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B Rabbit

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Hey team,
Starting to plan out a wheel build for my Teewing Flux, been interested in Berd Spokes since I've heard about them.
These wheels will also do double duties on my non ebike enduro when (if) i get one of those again.
Going to use Wingman carbon rims (similar to WAO convergence, have a $99aud rebuild if you break one), 480g front, 520g rear with E13 Sidekick 2.0 hubs. I really want to go the straight pulls, but they only come in 28 holes and concerned the rear should be 32h. I weigh 80kgs.
Estimated weight is 1700-1800g, cost about $2000-2300aud.

Pros-
Vibration damping
Lighter
Side Kick 2.0 Silent coasting (really keen on that)

Cons-
Stretch a bit and require more attention
Maybe more wheel flex?

I see a few people on the Crestline thread are running them, any feedback?
Or do I just save my money and keep running my 7 year old LB Charbon rims on 350 hubs? They have served me well and will weigh about the same but im sure they are pretty harsh in comparison, these rims were around before compliance was a thing.

Thanks,
Ben
 
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B Rabbit said:
Side Kick 2.0 Silent coasting (really keen on that)
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Are you sure you want Side Kick 2.0?

I have these (they came on my bike) and the drag free and silent coasting is incredible, but every time you go from coasting to pedaling they clunk - rather annoyingly - with a LOUD sound as the ratchet re-engages.

It's loud enough that I would get rid of the wheels if I found a cost effective alternative that was similar weight and rolling efficient.
 
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I have a set of well used Berd 29ers that I used on my SJ Evo for about 2.5 years with P321 hubs I'd let got for $400 + fees in the USA as they have been sitting for some time now.

I put a lot of thought into the build when I did it.

It's an AM front wheel 33mm ID 28 spoke & a DH rear wheel 29mm ID 32 spoke, XD driver. The rims are Carbon Fans. As I recall they weigh about 1650 grams fully built.

I loved them at the time. The rims are dead straight but our rocks have scuffed them up a lot. I'd also re-tension them just because it hasn't been done. The spokes were blackened with a sharpie but that's pretty faded at this point.

I have another set of Berds on my Smuggler trail bike that I'd not let go, really like them.
 
Roaming50 said:
Are you sure you want Side Kick 2.0?

I have these (they came on my bike) and the drag free and silent coasting is incredible, but every time you go from coasting to pedaling they clunk - rather annoyingly - with a LOUD sound as the ratchet re-engages.

It's loud enough that I would get rid of the wheels if I found a cost effective alternative that was similar weight and rolling efficient.
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What bike came with the sidekick 2s?

I have the first sidekicks and I occasionally get a clunk, but it’s not all the time. IMO they are well worth it. Coming off the i9 hydra 2 hubs these feel way way better to me. Suspension feels free, I’m not repositioning my feet as much, seems to coast better (although I’m also on different tires so hard to compare that). The silence is the best part and free suspension feeling. I’ll only do silent hubs from now on. I’ve been a huge fan of the sidekicks so far.

My downsides are the first gen I have are heavier than i9s. With silence comes you noticing any other little noise on the bike and other people don’t hear you coming. The clunk hasn’t really bothered me coming off constantly loud i9s lol.
 
My mate is a Berd dealer in the US, he runs them on all his bikes including his Yeti LTe. He seems to really like them and recommended the Hawk 30X if I weren’t going with a custom build.
 
I run Berd spokes on both my bikes. Ripmo and Crestline.

Both run onyx hubs, the Ripmo has reserve carbon rims and the Crestline has Berd hawk x carbon rims.

The Crestline is also running the larger thicker spokes.

I’ll never run a different spoke unless something better comes out. They are incredible. The vibration damping is insane, the stiffness is impressive while also being compliant. I could not be more happy with them.

Bonus is they are super quiet too. No pinging at all.

I weigh about 110kg or 250lbs. I haven’t had an issue with them at all.
 
TTEngineer said:
I run Berd spokes on both my bikes. Ripmo and Crestline.

Both run onyx hubs, the Ripmo has reserve carbon rims and the Crestline has Berd hawk x carbon rims.

The Crestline is also running the larger thicker spokes.

I’ll never run a different spoke unless something better comes out. They are incredible. The vibration damping is insane, the stiffness is impressive while also being compliant. I could not be more happy with them.

Bonus is they are super quiet too. No pinging at all.

I weigh about 110kg or 250lbs. I haven’t had an issue with them at all.
Click to expand...

Which hubs are you running on the Crestline? I have some Vesper hubs from a previous build, I loved how they make zero noise but I was told they wouldn’t hold up to e-bike abuse.
 
Ou812 said:
Which hubs are you running on the Crestline? I have some Vesper hubs from a previous build, I loved how they make zero noise but I was told they wouldn’t hold up to e-bike abuse.
Click to expand...

I’m running the classic hub from onyx.

A couple of things to note:

1. Onyx redesigned the classic hub and it now looks like the vesper, but it still retains the x2 sprag clutches on the inside for strength.

2. I went with hook flange for a more secure connection. My Ripmo has the original style where they use a dowel under tension. Not that I’ve had an issue with this style, but I have heard of folks loosing spokes installed this way, so I went hook flange. IF you go hook flange, onyx only offers this with a center lock option, no 6 bolt. I’m running the shimano center lock to 6 bolt adapter. No issues, even with the Avinox speed ring on top of my rotors.

3. Who ever builds your wheels, make sure they keep them for at least a week, and re tension every day. The spokes stretch a lot when installed so it’s imperative that they reach their maximum tension and hold it for a few days before you ride them. I had a local builder do my Ripmo set, he kept them for a week, and I haven’t had any issues after a few hundred miles.
My Crestline set was built by Berd, and I think IIRC took 4ish weeks after payment.

4. Troydon at Crestline also runs onyx hubs, he personally warned me to not smash on the hub when climbing with the Avinox as he’s broken 3 axles on his personal bike. I haven’t had any issues, but I’ve only ridden the bike 3 times so far, I don’t smash when pedaling, I don’t run the bike in turbo or boost, and 1 of those rides was a shuttle up DH park.

I honestly don’t know why EVERYONE isn’t running this combo. It quite frankly has ruined me for other wheel sets. Are they expensive? Yes absolutely. BUT SO WORTH IT.

I know another member claims his weren’t laterally stiff but I honestly think his weren’t tensioned correctly. He’s the only person I’ve ever heard say that. Anecdotally, Macky Franklin from YouTube (Syd and Macky) runs Berd on all his bikes and he holds KOM dissents on most trails in New Mexico. Thats a pretty good measure of durability and capability if you ask me.
 
I’ve been looking at Berd spokes for a few years now. I’m not worried about the durability or the build if I assemble these myself.

I am struggling with the “J” bend dowel attachment with a typical hub flange. I prefer the hook flange but my “precious” Project 321 hubs are J Bend.

I researched Berd spokes again last week in combination with carbon hoops(We Are One, available in Kamloops BC). I’m not worried about stiffness. I see that Berd spokes are now available for EMTBs in a slightly larger diameter. I’m not sure I need a larger diameter since I only weigh 70-72kg. Also I would consider 28 spokes for both front and rear. I currently use 28/32 front/rear.

My quest for “lightness” has suddenly emerged and I’m on a mission now to make my Rail 9.7 as light as possible. Smaller 500wh battery and I’m in the process of removing the heavy battery lock system and replacing that with an alloy angle bracket, which I’m fabricating this week. (Pics and drawings …soon I hope).

I’ve delayed the purchase of a new EMTB until next year. I’d like to see what TQ motor has up its sleeve. This is just a prediction but; 120nm TQ motor to be released January 27, 2027. Fingers crossed 🤞.
 
Stihldog said:
I’ve been looking at Berd spokes for a few years now. I’m not worried about the durability or the build if I assemble these myself.

I am struggling with the “J” bend dowel attachment with a typical hub flange. I prefer the hook flange but my “precious” Project 321 hubs are J Bend.

I researched Berd spokes again last week in combination with carbon hoops(We Are One, available in Kamloops BC). I’m not worried about stiffness. I see that Berd spokes are now available for EMTBs in a slightly larger diameter. I’m not sure I need a larger diameter since I only weigh 70-72kg. Also I would consider 28 spokes for both front and rear. I currently use 28/32 front/rear.

My quest for “lightness” has suddenly emerged and I’m on a mission now to make my Rail 9.7 as light as possible. Smaller 500wh battery and I’m in the process of removing the heavy battery lock system and replacing that with an alloy angle bracket, which I’m fabricating this week. (Pics and drawings …soon I hope).

I’ve delayed the purchase of a new EMTB until next year. I’d like to see what TQ motor has up its sleeve. This is just a prediction but; 120nm TQ motor to be released January 27, 2027. Fingers crossed 🤞.
Click to expand...

The TQ120 will be here sooner than that, my local Trek dealer said the dealer orders will be open this month. The sales guy was going to show me the dealer promo stuff but his boss came in and he changed the subject real fast.
 
Ou812 said:
The TQ120 will be here sooner than that, my local Trek dealer said the dealer orders will be open this month. The sales guy was going to show me the dealer promo stuff but his boss came in and he changed the subject real fast.
Click to expand...
Similar thing happened to me at trek dealership here. I secretly peaked at a computer screen that the employee left open (accidentally on purpose) while the boss was busy elsewhere. Maybe my dates are wrong …we will see?
 
andreaverona said:
Looking for pirope alu set…. Pirope should be lot better than berd
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I disagree.

Berd spokes are compatible with every rim on the market.

Pi is not.

Berd spokes are compatible with most hubs on the market.

Pi is not.

Berd is an American company using dynema fabric. The same stuff that synthetic winch cables are made from on every off road race team truck in the world.

Dyneema aka amsteel is bomb proof.

Are the pi spokes stronger, probably. But who cares when we’re already stronger than steel spokes

Are they more temperature stable, yes … past 158°F (70°C). It doesn’t get that hot on this planet.

The benefits of Berd out weight the benefits of Pi.

If pi used conventional hubs and rims they’d be (arguably) better. But considering this, Berd is better in my opinion.
 
Then there's Ti-Fi spokes. Like the gold.
1782959807639.webp
 
Powerslider said:
I like the resistance from rock impacts, but the initial maintenance regimen keeps me away from trying them.
Click to expand...

There is no initial maintenance other than not being able to ride them for a few days once laced and tensioned. You just have to re tension a few times while building them. Once ready, they are gtg.
 
TTEngineer said:
There is no initial maintenance other than not being able to ride them for a few days once laced and tensioned. You just have to re tension a few times while building them. Once ready, they are gtg.
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Any ideas on how to flex or tension the entire wheel during the process. I understand that the berd spokes need a few days for stretching before they reach length and or strength. A press system of some sort? Other than by hand or an expensive hydraulic tool.

My round garbage can/bin is the perfect diameter for changing tires …but 🤷🏼‍♂️.

Edit; A homemade solution?
 
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Powerslider said:
That’s not the experience I see in practice.
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Info below directly from Berd’s website. 👇🏻

“Do Berd spokes lose tension over time, and what maintenance is required?
This answer depends on if the wheels are built at home or in a bike shop OR if they are built by Berd in the Berd factory (or if your shop has a Berd Wheel Stress Relief Machine). All wheels with Berd spokes that are built outside of the Berd factory require a multi-day tensioning process to reduce the amount of tension loss that will happen after the wheels are installed on a bike. Despite this, the tension in Berd spoke wheels will decrease by approximately 30% over the first 6 months of use due to the natural "bedding in" process of the fibers. This loss in tension does not affect the durability or longevity of Berd spoke wheels, and there is no requirement to increase the tension. If desired, the tension can be increased after 3-6 months by turning each nipple by 2 full turns from the tire side of the nipple while using the Berd spoke holding tool to prevent the spokes from twisting, followed by minor adjustments to ensure the wheel is true and dished properly.

All wheels built at the Berd factory or by a wheel builder that has a Berd Wheel Stress Relief Machine do not undergo the same multi-day process and more stretch is removed from the wheels, resulting in wheels that are much more stable and most likely will never need to be tensioned again!”

For more info, link 👇🏻
Berd FAQ
 
Onetime said:
Info below directly from Berd’s website. 👇🏻

“Do Berd spokes lose tension over time, and what maintenance is required?
This answer depends on if the wheels are built at home or in a bike shop OR if they are built by Berd in the Berd factory (or if your shop has a Berd Wheel Stress Relief Machine). All wheels with Berd spokes that are built outside of the Berd factory require a multi-day tensioning process to reduce the amount of tension loss that will happen after the wheels are installed on a bike. Despite this, the tension in Berd spoke wheels will decrease by approximately 30% over the first 6 months of use due to the natural "bedding in" process of the fibers. This loss in tension does not affect the durability or longevity of Berd spoke wheels, and there is no requirement to increase the tension. If desired, the tension can be increased after 3-6 months by turning each nipple by 2 full turns from the tire side of the nipple while using the Berd spoke holding tool to prevent the spokes from twisting, followed by minor adjustments to ensure the wheel is true and dished properly.

All wheels built at the Berd factory or by a wheel builder that has a Berd Wheel Stress Relief Machine do not undergo the same multi-day process and more stretch is removed from the wheels, resulting in wheels that are much more stable and most likely will never need to be tensioned again!”

For more info, link 👇🏻
Berd FAQ
Click to expand...
"This loss in tension does not affect the durability or longevity of Berd spoke wheels, and there is no requirement to increase the tension."
That seems a little odd to consider a 30% reduction in tension to be perfectly fine to keep riding indefinitely. I'd figure that would lead them to regularly go slack under side loading conditions, which isn't good for your hub flanges or rim spoke holes. Unless they are suggesting over-tensioning them at the outset so the 30% drop still keeps them in an acceptable zone?
 
TheKaiser said:
"This loss in tension does not affect the durability or longevity of Berd spoke wheels, and there is no requirement to increase the tension."
That seems a little odd to consider a 30% reduction in tension to be perfectly fine to keep riding indefinitely. I'd figure that would lead them to regularly go slack under side loading conditions, which isn't good for your hub flanges or rim spoke holes. Unless they are suggesting over-tensioning them at the outset so the 30% drop still keeps them in an acceptable zone?
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Pretty sure that 30% loss is IF you LBS wheel builder does not have the Bern tension tool, then that 30% reduction is during the initial fews days post build stretch.

On 2nd season with a set of wheels using Berds w/DT 240 hubs & Teravail Circos carbon hoops (on my Gravel bike). After the 1st season I did have 1 random spoke loose tension, a quick checkup at my LBS fixed it up. So far really happy with mine, now thinking of having a set built for my Wild as soon as I justify in my mind that I need to spend $$$ on them :)
 
Berd spokes are nice but on a longer travel bike, you may not see the advantage and they will be higher maintenance. In fact, for eMTBs like most ride, I prefer alloy rims and normal spokes. The comfort is great with alloy and I do not want very stiff wheels so carbon is not necessary for me. On every other regular MTB, Berd makes sense. They are light for climbing and on my short travel 120mm bike, they add a bit (not a huge amount with the new Hawk 30 Gold wheelset which is stiffer than their regular Hawk 30) of comfort over long rocky rides.

If I were to build a wheelset for my eMTB, I'd go with alloy rims or slightly compliant carbon rims, Sapim D-Light spokes or equivalent, and DT or Chris King hubs. I have used Onyx as well. Good luck!
 
F4Flyer said:
Berd spokes are nice but on a longer travel bike, you may not see the advantage and they will be higher maintenance. In fact, for eMTBs like most ride, I prefer alloy rims and normal spokes. The comfort is great with alloy and I do not want very stiff wheels so carbon is not necessary for me. On every other regular MTB, Berd makes sense. They are light for climbing and on my short travel 120mm bike, they add a bit (not a huge amount with the new Hawk 30 Gold wheelset which is stiffer than their regular Hawk 30) of comfort over long rocky rides.

If I were to build a wheelset for my eMTB, I'd go with alloy rims or slightly compliant carbon rims, Sapim D-Light spokes or equivalent, and DT or Chris King hubs. I have used Onyx as well. Good luck!
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I have so much rock rash on my alloy wheels now, I'd be worried about running carbon.

LBS says I'd be fine, carbon is strong, but the 1st time I rash up a carbon wheel I'd be crying :)
 
UrWlcm said:
I have so much rock rash on my alloy wheels now, I'd be worried about running carbon.

LBS says I'd be fine, carbon is strong, but the 1st time I rash up a carbon wheel I'd be crying :)
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Yeah, that first scratch is the worst. Usually triggers an investigation. 😉.

I think you’ll be fine with carbon rims…no problems here …so far. 🙏
 
F4Flyer said:
Berd spokes are nice but on a longer travel bike, you may not see the advantage and they will be higher maintenance. In fact, for eMTBs like most ride, I prefer alloy rims and normal spokes. The comfort is great with alloy and I do not want very stiff wheels so carbon is not necessary for me. On every other regular MTB, Berd makes sense. They are light for climbing and on my short travel 120mm bike, they add a bit (not a huge amount with the new Hawk 30 Gold wheelset which is stiffer than their regular Hawk 30) of comfort over long rocky rides.

If I were to build a wheelset for my eMTB, I'd go with alloy rims or slightly compliant carbon rims, Sapim D-Light spokes or equivalent, and DT or Chris King hubs. I have used Onyx as well. Good luck!
Click to expand...
I’ve actually only run them on long travel, 180+ bikes with carbon rims, 1 Amish and 3 e-bikes for years and I’ve had all of the noted benefits and much less maintenance than all of my prior wheelsets, both aluminum and carbon. The Berd spokes give the compliance, so they’re great to run with stiffer carbon rims.
 
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