Brake Upgrade parts confusion - M20

Hi Folks

I'm looking for a bit of help to upgrade the stock M20 braking system with Shimano parts that will not require new brake lines run.

I'm after 203mm rotors + 4 pot calipers.

Feel free to add part numbers or correct my following list of components:-

• Front 203mm Ice-tech rotor PN ???

• Front Mount Adaptor = ISMMAF203PPA

• Rear 203mm Ice-Tech rotor PN??? (how do I attach magnet to this rotor?)

• Rear Mount Adaptor= SM-MA-F203P/PM

• Deore XT Calipers and levers = M8120

• Longer Hex screws

Do I need a specific tool for removing center lock rotors?


Your help and assistance would be greatly appreciated

If your M20 is the 2022 model, you need the SM-MA-F203P/PM front and back, if its the 2021 model, then yes, the ISMMAF203PPA is correct.

For the rear rotor, you can use the RT-EM900, this is the IceTech 203 with magnet. If IceTech isnt a requirement for you, the RT-EM600 is also 203 and a bit cheaper.

If i recall correctly, the M8120 does need different brake lines to whats installed already on the bike due to the use of a banjo fitting. I just installed the m6120 calipers instead since it was the cheapest and quickest way to upgrade to 4pots. Didnt have to do anything other than unscrew the old caliper, screw in the new one and rebleed.

Many thanks
To minimize cost and work required I think I'll go down the M6120 caliper route.

Will this rotor fit the front wheel of my M20?

I have a 2021 M20 and have just done exactly that.Converted to 203mm rotor which gave a small improvent then added 4 pots which is everything I need Not quite as powerful as my Magura MT7's but close.Left rear stock.Just needed to fill the caliper with oil and no bleeding needed but worth getting a kit anyway

Buggbairn said:

Hi Folks

I'm looking for a bit of help to upgrade the stock M20 braking system with Shimano parts that will not require new brake lines run.

I'm after 203mm rotors + 4 pot calipers.

Feel free to add part numbers or correct my following list of components:-

• Front 203mm Ice-tech rotor PN ???

• Front Mount Adaptor = ISMMAF203PPA

• Rear 203mm Ice-Tech rotor PN??? (how do I attach magnet to this rotor?)

• Rear Mount Adaptor= SM-MA-F203P/PM

• Deore XT Calipers and levers = M8120

• Longer Hex screws

Do I need a specific tool for removing center lock rotors?


Your help and assistance would be greatly appreciated

Click to expand...

Buggbairn, I did a three part series on Shimano brakes, including Part # 2 which covers brake modifications on the Orbea Rise. The tech article cover's everything you need to know in regards to modify the brakes on your Rise M20. The article will answer your questions.


I have a Rise M20 which I upgraded to Shimano XT 8120 brakes, Shimano 203mm centerlock rotors (Front RT-MT800 - Rear RT-EM810). To determine the correct caliper adapter for your M20, it's critical that you know the year and model of your Fox front fork, i.e. 2021 Fox 34, 2022 Fox 34, Fox 36, etc.

2021 Fox 34's have 160mm post mount and use a SM-MA-F203P/P caliper adapter for 203mm front rotor. 2022 Fox 34's have a 180mm post mount and need a SM-MA-F203P/PM to upgrade to a 203mm front rotor. If your Rise has been upgraded to a Fox 36, it will need a SM-MA-F203P/PM caliper adapter to upgrade to a 203mm front rotor. Shimano caliper adapters come with the correct sized screws for the adapter.

If you are unsure which model/year fork your M20 has, you can go to the Fox website and in the mountain bike "Tech Help" section you run the digital code or serial number on your fork and it will give you the information.

Bike Help Center | FOX

www.ridefox.com

As a side note, I swapped out my Fox 34 140mm fork and installed a used Fox 36 160mm fork. If you buy used, make sure the steerer tube is at least 7 1/4" - 184mm and ideally 190mm long. The increased front travel greatly improved the bike's handling in technical terrain and reduced pedal strikes.

Rod B. said:

Buggbairn, I did a three part series on Shimano brakes, including Part # 2 which covers brake modifications on the Orbea Rise. The tech article cover's everything you need to know in regards to modify the brakes on your Rise M20. The article will answer your questions.

PART # 2: SHIMANO BRAKE SYSTEM – Orbea Rise Brake System Modification

This technical article is the second installment in a two part series on Shimano brake systems. Refer to “Part # 1: Shimano Brake System Service”, for information on bleeding and servicing Shimano brakes and brake pad compounds...

www.emtbforums.com

I have a Rise M20 which I upgraded to Shimano XT 8120 brakes, Shimano 203mm centerlock rotors (Front RT-MT800 - Rear RT-EM810). To determine the correct caliper adapter for your M20, it's critical that you know the year and model of your Fox front fork, i.e. 2021 Fox 34, 2022 Fox 34, Fox 36, etc.

2021 Fox 34's have 160mm post mount and use a SM-MA-F203P/P caliper adapter for 203mm front rotor. 2022 Fox 34's have a 180mm post mount and need a SM-MA-F203P/PM to upgrade to a 203mm front rotor. If your Rise has been upgraded to a Fox 36, it will need a SM-MA-F203P/PM caliper adapter to upgrade to a 203mm front rotor. Shimano caliper adapters come with the correct sized screws for the adapter.

If you are unsure which model/year fork your M20 has, you can go to the Fox website and in the mountain bike "Tech Help" section you run the digital code or serial number on your fork and it will give you the information.

Bike Help Center | FOX

www.ridefox.com

As a side note, I swapped out my Fox 34 140mm fork and installed a used Fox 36 160mm fork. If you buy used, make sure the steerer tube is at least 7 1/4" - 184mm and ideally 190mm long. The increased front travel greatly improved the bike's handling in technical terrain and reduced pedal strikes.

View attachment 92580

Click to expand...

Hi Rod
Thanks for the reply, I had read your articles, they are super useful, especially for someone like myself who is just learning to work on bikes bit by bit.

I ended up buying 203mm MT-800 rotors, I was a bit confused about the magnet on the rear, I believe the one I have purchased has the magnet attached to the lockring. I hope the ones I have bought are compatible.

I also bought M6120 calipers, reason being is I didn't want to have to run new hoses and I believe the M6120's should be a straight swap and a brake bleed will be all that's required.

My M20 is the 2021 version so I have bought a 160 to 203 adaptor for the front and a 180 to 203 adaptor for the rear.

Does all of the above purchases sound compatible for an upgrade of sorts ?

BuggBairn, I've attached answers to your questions. I hope this helps.

Question: I ended up buying 203mm MT-800 rotors, I was a bit confused about the magnet on the rear, I believe the one I have purchased has the magnet attached to the lockring. I hope the ones I have bought are compatible.

Answer: eBike assistance speed is regulated by law. In the USA it's 20 mph for Class 1 eBikes. In Europe, I believe it's 25 km. On the Rise, a speed sensor pickup is mounted on the inside edge of the non-drive side chainstay.

Orbea Rise speed sensor pickup mounted on non-drive side chain stay


A magnet is mounted on the rear brake rotor. As the rotor turns, the magnet passes over the speed sensor pickup. The speed sensor pickup records the magnetic pulse and sends the information to the motor. The faster you go, the more rapidly the magnetic pulses occur. The motor's computer uses pulse frequency to determine bike speed and when to turn off motor assistance.

Rise M20, 180mm centerlock RT-EM800 rear brake rotor with magnet.

I once saw a picture of an Orbea Rise using a magnet adapter that clamps around the circumference of centerlock retaining ring. I've yet to see one in person. If your M20 came with the clamping magnetic adapter, then you do not have to buy a "Rear" brake rotor with the built in magnet. If your Rise M20 did not come with a centerlock rotor magnetic adapter, then you will need to use a centerlock brake rotor will built in magnet.

Note: If the speed sensor pickup does not register a magnetic pulse as the wheel turns, the motor's computer will throw a fault code and the motor will turn off.

Shimano XT, SM-MT800 centerlock brake rotor, non magnetic version.


Shimano XT centerlock brake rotor, SM-EM810, "Magnetic" version



Question: I also bought M6120 calipers, reason being is I didn't want to have to run new hoses and I believe the M6120's should be a straight swap and a brake bleed will be all that's required.

Answer: You are correct. The Rise M20 comes with straight fitting Shimano brake hose. The M6120 four piston caliper uses straight fitting brake hose. I recently installed a set of M6120 brake calipers on my buddy's Rise. We left the stock Deore brake levers that came with his Rise M20 on the bike. They M6120 calipers and 203mm rotors are an excellent upgrade.

Question: My M20 is the 2021 version so I have bought a 160 to 203 adaptor for the front and a 180 to 203 adaptor for the rear.

Answer: You are correct. You will need a Shimano SM-MA-F203P/P caliper adapter for the front and a Shimano SM-MA-F203P/PM caliper adapter for the rear (203mm brake rotor upgrade.)

Note: Make sure the orientation of the caliper adapters is correct during installation. It is possible to install the caliper adapters incorrectly, 180 degrees off. After you complete the install on each caliper adapter and caliper, verify that the brake pads completely covering the rotor. If the caliper adapter is on backwards, the caliper will not be positioned correctly and the brake pad will only cover half of the brake rotor.

Note: After installing the rear caliper adapter and caliper, you may encounter a situation where the rear brake hose may be too short due to the increased height of the caliper caused by the 203mm adapter. You may be able to pull excess slack in the brake line in order to attach the hose to the caliper. On the other hand, you may not be able to pull enough slack in the brake hose. If this occurs, you may have to slightly lower the motor in order to release friction where the brake hose exits the down tube and travels up and over the top of the motor.

If you do need to drop the motor, refer to my posting on dropping the Rise motor. Disregard the information about the dropper post.

Motor drop guidance? - EMTB Forums

In attempting to install a SC - EM800 display, my dropper post cable housing is stuck and I will need to drop the motor to get access to it. Is it possible to drop the motor enough to access the dropper cable housing without taking off the crank? If I have to remove the crank and crank arms...

www.emtbforums.com

Question: Does all of the above purchases sound compatible for an upgrade of sorts ?

Answer: You're doing awesome!!! Send me a message if you encounter a problem, I'll help you out. You got this!

Rod B. said:

BuggBairn, I've attached answers to your questions. I hope this helps.

Question: I ended up buying 203mm MT-800 rotors, I was a bit confused about the magnet on the rear, I believe the one I have purchased has the magnet attached to the lockring. I hope the ones I have bought are compatible.

Answer: eBike assistance speed is regulated by law. In the USA it's 20 mph for Class 1 eBikes. In Europe, I believe it's 25 km. On the Rise, a speed sensor pickup is mounted on the inside edge of the non-drive side chain.

Orbea Rise speed sensor pickup mounted on non-drive side chain stay
View attachment 92638

A magnet is mounted on the rear brake rotor. As the rotor turns, the magnet passes over the speed sensor pickup. The speed sensor pickup records the magnetic pulse and sends the information to the motor. The faster you go, the more rapidly the magnetic pulses occur. The motor's computer uses pulse frequency to determine bike speed and when to turn off motor assistance.

Rise M20, 180mm centerlock RT-EM800 rear brake rotor with magnet.
View attachment 92639

I once saw a picture of an Orbea Rise using a magnet adapter that clamps around the circumference of centerlock retaining ring. I've yet to see one in person. If your M20 came with the clamping magnetic adapter, then you do not have to buy a "Rear" brake rotor with the built in magnet. If your Rise M20 did not come with a centerlock rotor magnetic adapter, then you will need to use a centerlock brake rotor will built in magnet.

Note: If the speed sensor pickup does not register a magnetic pulse as the wheel turns, the motor's computer will throw a fault code and the motor will turn off.

Shimano XT, SM-MT800 centerlock brake rotor, non magnetic version.
View attachment 92641

Shimano XT centerlock brake rotor, SM-EM810, "Magnetic" version
View attachment 92642


Question: I also bought M6120 calipers, reason being is I didn't want to have to run new hoses and I believe the M6120's should be a straight swap and a brake bleed will be all that's required.

Answer: You are correct. The Rise M20 comes with straight fitting Shimano brake hose. The M6120 four piston caliper uses straight fitting brake hose. I recently installed a set of M6120 brake calipers on my buddy's Rise. We left the stock Deore brake levers that came with his Rise M20 on the bike. They M6120 calipers and 203mm rotors are an excellent upgrade.

Question: My M20 is the 2021 version so I have bought a 160 to 203 adaptor for the front and a 180 to 203 adaptor for the rear.

Answer: You are correct. You will need a Shimano SM-MA-F203P/P caliper adapter for the front and a Shimano SM-MA-F203P/PM caliper adapter for the rear (203mm brake rotor upgrade.)

Note: Make sure the orientation of the caliper adapters is correct during installation. It is possible to install the caliper adapters incorrectly, 180 degrees off. After you complete the install on each caliper adapter and caliper, verify that the brake pads completely covering the rotor. If the caliper adapter is on backwards, the caliper will not be positioned correctly and the brake pad will only cover half of the brake rotor.

Note: After installing the rear caliper adapter and caliper, you may encounter a situation where the rear brake hose may be too short due to the increased height of the caliper caused by the 203mm adapter. You may be able to pull excess slack in the brake line in order to attach the hose to the caliper. On the other hand, you may not be able to pull enough slack in the brake hose. If this occurs, you may have to slightly lower the motor in order to release friction where the brake hose exits the down tube and travels up and over the top of the motor.

If you do need to drop the motor, refer to my posting on dropping the Rise motor. Disregard the information about the dropper post.

Motor drop guidance? - EMTB Forums

In attempting to install a SC - EM800 display, my dropper post cable housing is stuck and I will need to drop the motor to get access to it. Is it possible to drop the motor enough to access the dropper cable housing without taking off the crank? If I have to remove the crank and crank arms...

www.emtbforums.com

Question: Does all of the above purchases sound compatible for an upgrade of sorts ?

Answer: You're doing awesome!!! Send me a message if you encounter a problem, I'll help you out. You got this!

Click to expand...

Hi Rod
Thanks again for such an detailed response, I appreciate you spending time on this.

This is the rear rotor I have purchased



It does look slightly different to the one you illustrated as the magnet is built into the lockring. I am hoping that it is still in the right position to pass by the built in side of the speed measurement hardware.

Buggbairn said:

Hi Rod
Thanks again for such an detailed response, I appreciate you spending time on this.

This is the rear rotor I have purchased

View attachment 92646

It does look slightly different to the one you illustrated as the magnet is built into the lockring. I am hoping that it is still in the right position to pass by the built in side of the speed measurement hardware.

Click to expand...

Did the the magnetic locking ring come installed on your Rise M20?

Buggbairn,

The Orbea Rise uses the Shimano EW-SS301 speed sensor pickup.

I checked Shimano's compatibility chart for the EW-SS301 speed sensor unit. I've highlighted the Rise's EW-SS301 speed sensor unit in light blue. Below the EW-SS301 speed sensor are all of the brake components which are compatible with the speed sensor unit. Any Shimano centerlock rotor will work with the Rise's EW-SS301 speed sensor unit as long as the magnet is integrated into the rotor itself.

I've highlighted in red, the brake rotor and magnetic locking ring which you purchased. You will note that the compatibility chart shows the magnetic locking ring is compatible with the EW-SS302 speed sensor unit. Listed below the EW-SS302 speed sensor unit are all of the brake components which are compatible with the EW-SS302 speed sensor unit.

NOTE: I would give the magnetic locking ring a try and see if it works. It may work. According to the compatibility chart, it may not...I've experimented in the past with various magnetic adapters. If the magnetic locking ring doesn't work, you'll encounter one of these symptoms I've listed below and will need to purchase an integrated magnet rotor, i.e. RT-EM810, RT-EM600, RT-EM300, etc.

Symptoms of the Speed Sensor Unit not picking up the magnet:
1. The bike will power on. When you try to pedal, the speed sensor unit will not pick up the magnetic locking ring's pulse and immediately turn off. A red light will appear on the EW-EN100 black junction box. The motor will not power up unless your turn the bike off and back on. The moment you try to pedal again, the bike/motor will turn off and the red light will appear again. If you open the Shimano E-Tube app and connect to your bike, it will display a fault code for the speed sensor error in the maintenance section on the E-Tube app.

2. The bike will stay powered on at slow speed. However, as you gather higher speed such as on a downhill section, the speed sensor unit will not read the rapidly spinning magnetic locking ring. The bike will turn off. If you wait a few minutes and turn the bike off and back on, the motor will work again as long as you maintain a slow speed. It the bike's speed picks up, it will red light on the junction box again and the motor will turn off. If you go into the E-Tube app and connect to the bike you will find a fault code in the maintenance section of the app.

3. The bike will work, but as you ride, the motor will cut power and cut back in again. This is due to the speed sensor not reading the magnet correctly. If you go into the E-Tube app and connect to the bike, you will find a fault code in the maintenance section of the app.



The magnetic locking ring which you purchased is compatible with the EW-SS302


EW-SS302 Speed Sensor Unit and magnetic locking ring


The Rise's Shimano's EW-SS301 speed sensor unit. Note the difference between the two speed sensor units.


If the magnetic locking ring does not work there may be another option so you won't have to toss the Mt-800 203mm rotor. I have not tried this option. I finally located the magnetic adapter that clamps to the rotor locking ring. It is used on the Orbea Wild, for the Bosch motor system. Orbea sells the magnet adapter for $11 in the Orbea parts section. I wonder if it would work with the Rise???

Hi Rod
Thanks again
I will definitely feedback the outcome of using this rotor with my Rise and I'm now prepared with the knowledge of what might happen if the magnet does not line up sufficiently.

Rod B. said:

I once saw a picture of an Orbea Rise using a magnet adapter that clamps around the circumference of centerlock retaining ring. I've yet to see one in person. If your M20 came with the clamping magnetic adapter, then you do not have to buy a "Rear" brake rotor with the built in magnet. If your Rise M20 did not come with a centerlock rotor magnetic adapter, then you will need to use a centerlock brake rotor will built in magnet.

Click to expand...

I can personally confirm that the TRP adapter works flawlessly with centerlock and can be ordered directly from TRP in Utah.

Buggbairn said:

Hi Folks

I'm looking for a bit of help to upgrade the stock M20 braking system with Shimano parts that will not require new brake lines run.

I'm after 203mm rotors + 4 pot calipers.

Feel free to add part numbers or correct my following list of components:-

• Front 203mm Ice-tech rotor PN ???

• Front Mount Adaptor = ISMMAF203PPA

• Rear 203mm Ice-Tech rotor PN??? (how do I attach magnet to this rotor?)

• Rear Mount Adaptor= SM-MA-F203P/PM

• Deore XT Calipers and levers = M8120

• Longer Hex screws

Do I need a specific tool for removing center lock rotors?


Your help and assistance would be greatly appreciated

Click to expand...

You probably have it all sorted now, but I did just receive the tool and parts for changing the hose ends from direct to banjo end. I probably knew in the back of my mind, I just didn't connect with it.
I had already resigned myself to taking the bike to the shop for running new hose lines, dropping the motor, etc. LBS have been, in my city, largely understaffed and have been closing shop for a day or two to allow for time off. Then the flood of repair and tune-up activity from the pandemic surge in interest, turnaround times and labor rates have soared.
Then I remembered seeing hose being made in the bikes shops routinely.
Anyway, it's easy to remove the old end, attach the new banjoend, connect to your M-9120 4 piston calipers. You will probably have to bleed the system.
By now, you've probably attached everything else, and will ready to go.

Good luck,

GizmoSL said:

You probably have it all sorted now, but I did just receive the tool and parts for changing the hose ends from direct to banjo end. I probably knew in the back of my mind, I just didn't connect with it.
I had already resigned myself to taking the bike to the shop for running new hose lines, dropping the motor, etc. LBS have been, in my city, largely understaffed and have been closing shop for a day or two to allow for time off. Then the flood of repair and tune-up activity from the pandemic surge in interest, turnaround times and labor rates have soared.
Then I remembered seeing hose being made in the bikes shops routinely.
Anyway, it's easy to remove the old end, attach the new banjoend, connect to your M-9120 4 piston calipers. You will probably have to bleed the system.
By now, you've probably attached everything else, and will ready to go.

Good luck,

Click to expand...

Anyone needing info about the tool and parts, look on Amazon. A lot of the online dealers are out of stock, back ordered, but Amazon seems to have it, if you willing to dig.