Is the Power War over ? Is 1500 peak watts, 150Nm, the new benchmark ?

[Astro66]

With the Chinese heavy weights of Gobao and Avinox releasing new concept motors at Eurobike at exactly the same power level. 1500 peak watts. 150Nm. Is this going to be the new standard from the previous 750 peak watts, 100Nm ?

I'm hoping it is. But I also hope this is the limit. At 1300 watts peak. My M2S motor has thrown up a temperature warning when I pushed it really hard, that my M1 at 1000 peak watts, never did.

I just don't need temperature limitations when I'm riding. Keep the peak power at a level these 250 watt rated motors can handle, without having to warn the rider, he's pushing too hard.

BTW. As I know this will create some polarising views. Can we accept there will be different opinions, which is fine. Just play the ball. Not the player. Thx.

 

[xtraman122]

We’re definitely at (Or a little past) the point where the power is downright silly and stops feeling like an assisted bike and more like a motorcycle with pedals. I’m not one to advocate for limits/regulations, but I think we’re pretty much at a limit of what’s even practical at this point. I’d rather we just get comfortable with the limits we have and not need any new “rules”.

The innovation at this point needs to pivot to battery energy density and drivetrains (eCVTs/MGUs/etc). We’ve gotten enough power out of the motors at this point for what’s practical, now we need to work on refining it (Noise, reliability, weight) and working on those other components around it imo.

 

[Astro66]

Indeed. I'm hoping we can put the whole peak power thing to bed. I would not argue having 1500 watts regulated as the peak allowed. I certainly have zero desire to get the 1500 watt version of the Avinox motor. The M1 at 1000 watts was plenty. I'm really not noticing the extra 300 watts I have in my 1300 watt M2S motor.

From a practical point of view. A 250 watt rated motor, just isn't going to give satisfactory performance, if you run it any harder. As I am discovering with the M2S at 1300 watts peak.

I do believe we have hit the limit of a 250 watt rated motor.

 

[urmom]

>motorcycle with pedals

Electric motorcycles are great (both the city and enduro kind)

Electric bicycles are great.

New categories (like the e-scooters) emerging are great too.

But I think products designed for legal loopholes are not. Silly torque destroys bicycle trails. Unfit & unskilled riders going way to fast on cycling infrastructure where children are. It leads to bans that affect everyone. Example: My city no longer allows ebikes on public transports (because hard to specify: non-shitty-ebikes), as shitty aliexpress bikes went up in flames. The usual Bosch batteries are as safe as those of cellphones & laptop computers, but now we cannot take the commuter rail out of the city anymore, which was a nice way to start a bike tour. Some places started banning ebikes (or all bicycles) on trails altogether.

 

[Brawwp]

Oh god not another one of these threads. lol.

 

[Bndit]

Nobody needs more than 750w on a bicycle, or more than 100Nm. Let`s leave it there. If more is needed, buy a motorcycle.

 

[Leakintheboat]

Those numbers are only part of the story.

The software Multiplier is the biggest issue, not 1500watts or 150nm.

For reference the Avinox has 800% of input.... thats why it feels so easy and in return uses alot of watts.

On release, if it came out with 400% like the bosch and others had, it wouldve been anther Befang Chinese motor.

 

[Brawwp]

Nobody needs more than 750w on a bicycle, or more than 100Nm. Let`s leave it there. If more is needed, buy a motorcycle.

Thanks bro. I was unsure what I needed.

Is that what I need because that’s what you have? Why not 85nm?

 

[irie]

Thanks bro. I was unsure what I needed.

Is that what I need because that’s what you have? Why not 85nm?

@Bndit lives in Finland whereas you live in Hawaii. Never the twain shall meet.

 

[Brawwp]

@Bndit lives in Finland whereas you live in Hawaii. Never the twain shall meet.

Great point. So why speak for everyone? “Nobody needs”. I was happy with m1 power. I’m also very happy with M2s power. Do I want more, no. But if someone else does then go for it. It’s not my call on what you want.

To the OP, I do think we’re about at that limit for sure on emtb. Most of us aren’t using it. I don’t want less than the M2s now though.

 

[Astro66]

Nobody needs more than 750w on a bicycle, or more than 100Nm. Let`s leave it there. If more is needed, buy a motorcycle.

EMTB Manufacturers are telling us that releasing a new EMTB without one of the new +1000 watt peak power motors, means sales are super sluggish. Meanwhile ...... put one of the new +1000 watt peak power motors in, and the EMTB sells out.

EMTB riders want the option to have more peak power, when they need it. And the new concept motors and EMTBs, tell us that figure is 1500 peak watts and 150Nm.

It's pointless telling riders you only need 750 watts peak, if the majority of buyers today want the ability to access more. They have and will just buy elsewhere.

 

[Astro66]

I always was a Shimano Motor guy. I loved how the Shimano Eco-System worked together. Especially when you combine a hard-wired Linkglide electronic transmission to a Gen 2 Shimano motor.

But I owned one of these beside a new generation +1000 watt peak motor, and my riding ability vastly improved on the new motor. It was devastating to realise, I was going to have to move away from Shimano. But if the legacy motors want to keep dictating to EMTB riders, what they think you want. You cannot keep supporting them.

If Shimano brought out an Avinox equivalent motor, on a carbon weight enduro. I would have jumped at it. But to win me over now. They need to do this with a +1000 peak watt ECVT MGU. And they just cannot develop quick enough, before the market moves on.

 

[Mankra]

Silly torque destroys bicycle trails. Unfit & unskilled riders going way to fast on cycling infrastructure

Same song, like few years ago: Bio vs E-Bike.....