Current Avinox MG Prototype Bikes Don't Support Battery Regen

[Fangs2k]

I cannot understand the butthurt, at 2 companies coming out with the solution to a very big problem.

I think that’s all in your head to be fair, there’s a difference between ‘butthurt’ and critical thinking.

If you don't need it. Don't buy it. There will a market for derailleurs in low end built EMTBs for the foreseeable future.

I haven’t needed one before now, the trails, hills and mountains I ride haven’t changed, and I’ve lost one mech in the last few years, (and that’s with 6 bikes) a mix of EMTB and MTB over circa 4k miles a year.

I might end up buying one when I change/replace a bike in the future, but like most sensible people I’ll wait and see what comes to market and how they perform before doing so. That shouldn’t cause you any problem whatsoever.

Likewise, if the early adopters want to be first in the queue, who am I to judge?

Relax mate!

 

[cream]

So most of us aggressively take sides to what? To something that didn't hit the market yet? Where's the rush?

As @Fangs2k said e-cvt can coexist with standard systems. And it won't be cassettes/derailleurs available only for low end spec bikes. There's yet plenty to be made from both types of transmissions.

Even now, you can buy an M3 CS with a manual transmission, and it's not cheap


All in all, I'm interested in how it feels...if it parts from the normal bike feel, then it's not for me. At least nor for my eMTB. I might use it on a touring/city/commuting where I would be more interested of the system efficiency at the expense of how I feel it. Until I have tried it myself I am a bit reserved. It's how I'm wired don't judge me, just hear me out, ok ?

Regen in an electric MOUNTAIN BIKE also not appealing to me. Why would I change something that would impact how the bike will feel, complicate the predictions my brain could make on the trail.

But the e-cvt is a nice electro/mechanial device. Still haven't found an answer on how the system will function with no battery or a fully depleted one. Anybody ?

 

[Powerslider]

So most of us aggressively take sides to what? To something that didn't hit the market yet? Where's the rush?

As @Fangs2k said e-cvt can coexist with standard systems. And it won't be cassettes/derailleurs available only for low end spec bikes. There's yet plenty to be made from both types of transmissions.

Even now, you can buy an M3 CS with a manual transmission, and it's not cheap


All in all, I'm interested in how it feels...if it parts from the normal bike feel, then it's not for me. At least nor for my eMTB. I might use it on a touring/city/commuting where I would be more interested of the system efficiency at the expense of how I feel it. Until I have tried it myself I am a bit reserved. It's how I'm wired don't judge me, just hear me out, ok ?

Regen in an electric MOUNTAIN BIKE also not appealing to me. Why would I change something that would impact how the bike will feel, complicate the predictions my brain could make on the trail.

But the e-cvt is a nice electro/mechanial device. Still haven't found an answer on how the system will function with no battery or a fully depleted one. Anybody ?

Specialized's current Turbo Levo system walls off a small part of the battery so the derailleur stays powered even if the battery is depleted. This would work the same way. Nothing new really.

 

[sethimus]

There doesn’t need to be an alternative does there? The derailleur and cassette etc has served cycling well for decades and is simple, effective and cheap. People don’t have to buy SRAM XO groupsets at the end of the day.

I think like everything in cycling, there’s room for all kinds of difference, why can’t MGUs exist alongside the current default solutions?

I know the answer, and it’s got little to do with solving problems but everything to do with keeping factories busy and retailers tills ringing.

I’m not a luddite, I’m interested in MGUs but not because I struggle to be in the right gear at the bottom of a descent or start of a climb or even because the derailleur is ‘ugly’. Mind you, some of those belt and tensioner setups don’t look great either!

I’ve had a bit of time on one of my brothers e-commuter bikes, a Leonardo with a Gen3 Zehus hub motor with regen (yes, he lives in London and has that kind of moustache and lifestyle!) and it’s a cool thing for the cycleways of that city.

He reckons he can add about 10% of battery range just by normal braking regen, without any back pedalling. Doesn’t sound a lot to translate into much extra range for an EMTB even if the technical challenges to enable it can be overcome with a full suspension bike.

I’m often reminded of the legendary engineer and designer Colin Chapman whose mantra was always ‘simplify, then add lightness’. It feels like MGUs are doing neither, replacing one set of complexities with another.

I’ll be watching with interest though, to see how each of these early concepts develop over time.

if you don’t see the advantages you need to ride harder trails. simple as that. in my last finale holiday i needed to re-adjust my axs derailleur 4x due to hitting stuff on the trails…

 

[Fangs2k]

if you don’t see the advantages you need to ride harder trails. simple as that. in my last finale holiday i needed to re-adjust my axs derailleur 4x due to hitting stuff on the trails…

Yet I did a week in the mountains around Kaprun and didn’t need to touch anything?

I’m not saying I don’t see advantages, but I also see downsides, why is that so controversial?

We’ve been waiting for a replacement for derailleurs for years, this might be the time a viable alternative for some bikes and riders emerges, but it won’t be universal and won’t be for everybody.

 

[TorAtle]

I asked AI how much regen force a Gobao X1P could possibly generate. 0.4G peak, apparently. There's a lot of variables and the math could be off. But if true, that's pretty good.. So paired with a hydraulic front brake, we'd probably only need a one pot 140mm rear brake. The pads would last for ages.

 

[Astro66]

PS. Not sure what the heck you are doing to your derailleurs! I used to break them often when I was a novice but as time went on I learned to not smash them into things.

I'm not breaking them. I'm bending the cages.

I'll give you an example. I rode across a narrow timber plank that had been placed on the trail to cross a wet patch. The person in front slowed, so I needed to drop off the edge unexpectedly, just before the end of the plank. The rear wheel dropped off to the left, and the derailleur caught the edge of the plank, pushing it upwards and bending it like a banana.

Immediately I noticed gear shifts were poor, and the chain was jumping up and down on the sprockets, ruining the day, and requiring a new cage.

Another example. Crossing a trail where you had to ride over the top of several rounded rocks. One rock was quite mossy, so the rear wheel slid off to left, impacting the derailleur cage as it slid off. Another bent cage.

All these incidents, I didn't fall or have an accident. It's just the rear wheel slid off an obstacle to the left, and with the derailleur cage so low to the ground on that side, it gets impacted.

Then of course there are the impacts when you are weaving between rocks in a narrow gully. I have learnt to lean the bike away from close rocks on the right. But if you are going hard. You don't always have that option. And I ride to push limits. And the derailleur is forcing me to slow down, so I can always avoid impacting it. The derailleur is reducing my ability to push limits.

 

[Astro66]

But the e-cvt is a nice electro/mechanial device. Still haven't found an answer on how the system will function with no battery or a fully depleted one. Anybody ?

Who rides their EMTB with no battery ? Who rides their EMTB battery to 0% ?

I have had EMTBs for 8 years. I have never run my battery to empty. As I run electronic shifting, powered by the motor battery, on my last 4 EMTBs. On the 2 occasions I have slightly misjudged the ride. I turn the pedal assist OFF at 2%. And just rode the last little bit of the trail on leg power, so I maintain power for the electronics.

You are going to run out of battery anyway. So why run the battery to zero ? Turn the pedal assist OFF before you get to zero. It's not rocket science.

BTW. On the Avinox Motors. The Smoothshift is turned off automatically, when you select no pedal assist. So the motor does not spool on gear changes when no pedal assist is selected.

 

[sethimus]

BTW. On the Avinox Motors. The Smoothshift is turned off automatically, when you select no pedal assist. So the motor does not spool on gear changes when no pedal assist is selected.

does it still shift?