Orbea x Avinox Rumours
- Thread starter gbcoke
- Start date
James_MTB
Well-known member
- Jan 15, 2018
- 354
- 373
UK dealers will receive a presentation on the 9th.
you have Atherton... leave orbea bikes for the continent.
i still hope for fast delivery
Strange how they ruin the major selling point of the Avinox drive system... So you'll have a slower system than all other brands who are using the same motor.
WTF why??
How difficult will it be to load the standard software on it? Asking for a friend...
Yah, it's so unfair that they aren't selling you a Class 3, but then claiming it's a Class 1 like their competitors.
Orbea is so immoral...
Something tells me that Orbea didn't just fall off of a fruit truck... here's what I found regarding their in house software development. >
Orbea absolutely develops their own in-house software and firmware configurations, but they do so in deep, collaborative partnerships with their motor suppliers rather than rewriting the base motor OS from scratch.
Instead of just taking an off-the-shelf motor package and slapping it onto a frame, Orbea heavily modifies how the hardware behaves
Orbea absolutely develops their own in-house software and firmware configurations, but they do so in deep, collaborative partnerships with their motor suppliers rather than rewriting the base motor OS from scratch.
Instead of just taking an off-the-shelf motor package and slapping it onto a frame, Orbea heavily modifies how the hardware behaves
Jabba81
New Member
That means if DJI drops an update it can be significantly delayed till we get it. Because they want to modify it to their needs first...
Regarding the Bosch Wild with the actual Design, it seems it will stay in the line up but as a Trailversion only (like the ST now) in Carbon and Aluminum.
The new one with Avinox will be the FullPower electrified Rallon.
Regarding the potential power limit, I don’t care …. The Orignal FullPower 85nm and 600W was more than enough for me and I more or less never used it.
The big USP for the Avinox for me are the Software Goodies like linking the Power Delivery to my Heart Rate, thats a really cool feature.
I still hope for a „SL“ version of the Avinox with 90nm/600is Watts and a lot less weight.
The new one with Avinox will be the FullPower electrified Rallon.
Regarding the potential power limit, I don’t care …. The Orignal FullPower 85nm and 600W was more than enough for me and I more or less never used it.
The big USP for the Avinox for me are the Software Goodies like linking the Power Delivery to my Heart Rate, thats a really cool feature.
I still hope for a „SL“ version of the Avinox with 90nm/600is Watts and a lot less weight.
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For me, the power of the current Bosch is more than enough, I just hope they implement connectivity with Garmin as they did in the latest Bosch update
dadeadduck
New Member
If it's only on "competition line" bikes, fine, but a 750w limit is a pointless poop in the punch bowl.
Still, if they are literally advertising, "how do we improve on this" .... They have an answer and public news is close.
Still, if they are literally advertising, "how do we improve on this" .... They have an answer and public news is close.
The negative press is going to be crazy if Orbea is stupid enough to come to market with a neutered Avinox motor. I know I wouldn't buy an Orbea on principle. That crap better not come here where POTUS just opened the door to LESS regulation for off road vehicles! There's no sign of eMTB trail access being threatened because of power (or speed) in the US. Quite the opposite in fact.
Possibly the most idiotic part is that software can be updated when the alleged unelected bureaucrat oppression takes place. Guess they know users will do their best to avoid it. THAT is what would be so offensive to me. Concentrate on selling bikes, and leave the legislation to groups with that as their core mission.
Let's hope this is fake news.
I would think that the new Orbea Wild starting every time in Class 1, and there being a warning that you are engaging Class2+ mode by going above 750w & 20 mph/ 25kph and this might be illegal on non-motorized public lands and that you accept, would be a reasonable compromise so as not to lose sales.
But look, ultimately the bike manufacturers are in fact responsible for selling Class 1 bikes, if they are representing/ selling them as Class 1 bikes. You can't pretend that it's not their problem or responsibility to knowingly sell Class2+ bikes.
But look, ultimately the bike manufacturers are in fact responsible for selling Class 1 bikes, if they are representing/ selling them as Class 1 bikes. You can't pretend that it's not their problem or responsibility to knowingly sell Class2+ bikes.
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I'd be curious where your line in the sand is?
If Bosch/ Avinox/ Mahle/ etc. cranked their motor up to 2000w, would that be, okay? What if they released a new motor and it offered 2500w, 3500w? Bosch, and I'm sure others, could do that effortlessly. If it's light, compact, quiet, smooth & still has pedals, is that still okay?
Do you have a line in the sand where you agree that it's no longer a bicycle and should be categorized as an electric motorcycle or is there no line? If so, what is that line and how did you determine that to be the exact place the power race should stop?
Right now, battery energy density might not give people more common sense, but it does provide some limits for at least how long they can use it. But this limitation will not remain indefinitely.
Ride one and you’ll see we’re pretty much at that natural limit. The m1 and now M2s have been around a bit now. Derestrictions in all bikes has been around a while. Have you noticed a significant uptick in trail accidents? Have you seen any old guys out of control flying up a tech trail? I can give you my m1 and M2s and you wont be any faster up a tech trail. Fire road or car road, yeah you can get to 28mph a little faster, but that’s about it.
You can give emtb guys 2000w. It doesn’t matter. They still won’t be able to climb any faster than on the 1500w bike on an actual mtb trail. Now the 750w limit is lame. Just let the avinox be the avinox. If they want to take a hard stance then go with Bosch.
You have to ride one to realize this man. And if orbea limits to 750w that’s a real bummer for you guys because it could potentially be a huge success. It’ll still be a great bike most likely, but that’s going to have people looking elsewhere.
there is also a limit of 250W continuous power (in the lab)
you can't go much higher than avinox without significant weight penalty.
i would split this in two topics...
batterydensity has nothing to do with motor power... and i think we all want smaler lighter more powerfull batteries.
motor power:
there you also have two topics.
- lets say the power for 10-30 seconds.
- continous power over a long time.
you could have higher boost power at the cost of durability. the limit is the chain and heat. (i am waiting for fans on the motor an battery).
and i would really like the boost for steep climbs. (this needs good software for control)
you are talking about the power over a long time.
question: where could i use this ? (as long as i am limited to 25kmh or even 20mph)
even with my 100kg i need a really steep long road.
in my opinion 2 or 3 kW would only be marketing. everyone will use this at the first ride and then forget about it.
what you do with more rules is stopping any invention and improvement. (the thing Bosch would like from others...)
you can't go much higher than avinox without significant weight penalty.
i would split this in two topics...
batterydensity has nothing to do with motor power... and i think we all want smaler lighter more powerfull batteries.
motor power:
there you also have two topics.
- lets say the power for 10-30 seconds.
- continous power over a long time.
you could have higher boost power at the cost of durability. the limit is the chain and heat. (i am waiting for fans on the motor an battery).
and i would really like the boost for steep climbs. (this needs good software for control)
you are talking about the power over a long time.
question: where could i use this ? (as long as i am limited to 25kmh or even 20mph)
even with my 100kg i need a really steep long road.
in my opinion 2 or 3 kW would only be marketing. everyone will use this at the first ride and then forget about it.
what you do with more rules is stopping any invention and improvement. (the thing Bosch would like from others...)
Bikerson
Member
Perhaps the restriction only applies to bikes sold in Europe (the restrictive regulation is only European), and American users wouldn't have anything to worry about...so, let's wait and see how Orbea presents the product, and then we'll talk about facts, not assumptions.
Jabba81
New Member
Would be still a bummer for us europeans... as other brands have launched their Avinox M2S bikes without limitations...
You didn't answer the question, but if I wade through the BS a bit, are you saying that you feel that 1500w/ 28 mph SHOULD become the legal Class 1 bike limit? Primarily because it's the most that one can reasonably utilize at the 'natural limit' in your opinion.
I assure you that there are people that can and will go faster, if they had more power. There are plenty of Surons and MX bikes that can prove it to you. In fact, there are many that will just say, 'well I can use it on the transfer stage so yah, more power/ speed is important to me...'
So, it's your opinion that the power limit that Avinox released 50 days ago, a 50% increase btw, and that you happen to agree with, should now be the legal Class 1 limit, as opposed to the previous regulations?
Because if we can all agree that some limits should be in place for these vehicles to qualify as Class 1 vehicles and all that entails, then it's just a matter of agreement on what that power level should in fact be and then regulations to match. We don't just all each get to choose whatever it is that we judge as reasonable and prudent for our own needs and only abide by that. And yah, often being on a 'bicycle', limits how fast you can go on the road, or the trails, or uphill. That's normal and is not a valid argument for needing more and more power.
BTW, I do feel that some clarity and modification to the Class 1 legal limits should likely be enacted. But I don't unilaterally get to choose where those limits are and I do in fact need to abide by them, even if it doesn't suit my desires.
A 750W cap would be a huge disappointment for me. I've already ordered one, and nobody mentioned any power limitations when I placed the order.
That would be a complete fail…
I also want to Order the bike but with power limitations I wouldn’t buy!
I currently ride a 2025 Orbea Wild, so buying a new Wild with an Avinox motor restricted to 750W would be a complete waste of money for me.
Not quite. I just don’t think it matters that much imo. Ask any avinox owner if they’re climbing in turbo.
My personal opinion is the only restriction on emtb should be overall weight and it has to be a pedal assist. Basically just limit trail damage. Idc otherwise. Guys that are hauling the mail are plenty skilled enough to manage it. Especially uphill.
And dude I grew up next to dade city mx (you should know this place and the names coming out of there). Raced the Florida series my entire life up through some of college. Dirtbike climbing and mtb climbing are not even close to the same thing. Weight, tire width, traction, throttle, etc all play a part. Mtb has way more inherent limitations with its power. I’m actually surprised you’re moto background and seemingly onboard with 750w limitation. Is it just orbea bias?
I don’t accept the premise that power or speed is a metric for how I’d define if it’s a bicycle or motorcycle.
The power “limit” should be found organically; and without bureaucratic interference. This is how pretty much every other motorized transport is treated. Nobody says that a dirt bike, car, truck, boat, etc., turns into something else when an arbitrary power or speed limit is reached. Same should be the case with bikes.
If a bicycle manufacturer independently decides to create a limit for themselves they can. They’ll just be subject to consumer choice. They know their sales will plummet. Users don’t want neutered consumer goods; and see them as a poor value. That’s why these jerkoffs want industry-wide regulation. They want to hide behind bureaucrats so they don’t have to compete in a free market.
It's a 'biking' bias.
Once again, you are not seeing the forest for the trees. Yah, I get MX bikes are not the same as a bike. However, there is a chasm of unfilled space between 1 hp (750 watts) and 55 hp (450F). That said, 1500w/ 2 hp, with instant torque, very lightweight, very low rolling resistance, light nearly smooth tires, lightweight low resistance chain, is definitely feeling about like an 10-15 hp low grade trail dirt bike at this point.
Clearly you believe in some limits because you indicated that an MX bike would be silly. Still, there is a wide space below that. Or instead, do you think power should be unlimited but now a weight limit?
As a community we either need to follow the laws, or work to get the laws changed. But flagrantly ignoring them is not the answer.
OT: Recently I had a discussion with a 2A enthusiast, that saw no difference between the single load muskets that were the only guns in existence at the time of the signing of the US Constitution, and modern Assault rifles for the use of self-defense or for the formation of a militia, which assists the US military. I asked him what the limits should be for weapons, he felt none at all. I escalated, first from grenades to anti-tank weapons he expressed that all of these should be legal for private use in the name of self-defense. I then said, okay, I'd like a nuclear weapon at my home for self-defense. That was finally his limit, and he finally agreed that a lone individual should not be able to own such a weapon. From there we whittled back down to he felt that the laws should stop at what he currently has in his gun safe: Semi-auto assault rifles. And so, it goes. everyone wants their cool toy and can't bear the thought of having to go 'backwards'. Do you see the analogy? The difference is that Avinox went past the legal limit, they weren't even playing within the rules for most local riding spots from the outset.
PS. Pala had some interesting story lines!
AlsbachRyder
New Member
- Feb 18, 2026
- 31
- 73
Today I had a very unpleasant visit to my (former) Orbea dealer, where I had already bought 2 bikes (Orbea Rise ltd myO, Scor 4060 ST - Full Eagle/axs wireless) and tons of upgrades, equipment, clothing, spare parts etc - easy more than 20k€ over 2 years - before I finally decided to go with different dealers, one for my current Crafty and second one for my new Raymon Tarok - now I know again exactly why i left this cabin full of a__ls 
Long story (not so) short :
- no, we can‘t tell you anything about the new orbea wild - but i already had a private phone call before with one of the staff guys who told me the opposite and leaked some features: at the moment, they really don’t know all the specs available, but both the m20 and m10 specs seem to be rather „low-budget“, m-Team and Limited are not listed in the dealers configurator
- yes, there will be a Orbea RS tune for the avinox Motor to meet the UCI Race Regulations- if there is an unleashed, original avinox tune for the M2s at the new wild, he didn‘t know…
- they currently don’t accept any preorders of a new wild avinox, no matter of the bikes configuration
- there is no myO available at least to Q4 2026, more likely not until Q1/2027
- no, they don‘t get any new Wilds for their showroom at all - you have to order the bike blindly, without being able to see or test it
His last words were „maybe of our orbea field sales guys could bring us one new wild for one or two….“ - that was the Moment when Elvis left the building
thanks, i am done with Orbea for a while
Long story (not so) short :
- no, we can‘t tell you anything about the new orbea wild - but i already had a private phone call before with one of the staff guys who told me the opposite and leaked some features: at the moment, they really don’t know all the specs available, but both the m20 and m10 specs seem to be rather „low-budget“, m-Team and Limited are not listed in the dealers configurator
- yes, there will be a Orbea RS tune for the avinox Motor to meet the UCI Race Regulations- if there is an unleashed, original avinox tune for the M2s at the new wild, he didn‘t know…
- they currently don’t accept any preorders of a new wild avinox, no matter of the bikes configuration
- there is no myO available at least to Q4 2026, more likely not until Q1/2027
- no, they don‘t get any new Wilds for their showroom at all - you have to order the bike blindly, without being able to see or test it
His last words were „maybe of our orbea field sales guys could bring us one new wild for one or two….“ - that was the Moment when Elvis left the building
thanks, i am done with Orbea for a while
You seemed ok with getting the full power avinox on the orbea when you heard about it though.
Would love to hear your thoughts on deegs, but will derail this thread haha.
2A activist with a safe full of firearms here, so I feel compelled to briefly correct the record that when the second amendment was signed into law in 1791, there was repeating firearms, including with a magazine. Despite misconceptions, you could own a canon at the time too. The whole idea is citizens are free to be armed to protect themselves from an oppressive government.
There’s also no such thing as an assault weapon.
I’ll leave it at that and get back to bikes now.
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I could see a scenario where they have a specific "race" build that people can use at UCI events witht he 750w limit but Ihink it would be silly to spec that on all the bikes. Is E-Enduro even a big enough thing to be making specific race builds available to the general public? Strange choice to me. I figured it would be more something you can request from the manufacture if you ever find yourself in the situation where you need it.
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In my opinion, the big problem isn't the brand, but the incompetence of most of the store owners. I feel sorry for you! My local Orbea dealer knows what he's doing, and thanks to him, I've gotten great deals, swapped out a lot of bikes that I've had the opportunity to try out before, and sometimes he's even taken a new mountain bike out of the box for me to try out without any strings attached. If I'd dealt with a dealer like yours, I probably would have changed brands, but not because of the brand.Today I had a very unpleasant visit to my (former) Orbea dealer, where I had already bought 2 bikes (Orbea Rise ltd myO, Scor 4060 ST - Full Eagle/axs wireless) and tons of upgrades, equipment, clothing, spare parts etc - easy more than 20k€ over 2 years - before I finally decided to go with different dealers, one for my current Crafty and second one for my new Raymon Tarok - now I know again exactly why i left this cabin full of a__ls
Long story (not so) short :
- no, we can‘t tell you anything about the new orbea wild - but i already had a private phone call before with one of the staff guys who told me the opposite and leaked some features: at the moment, they really don’t know all the specs available, but both the m20 and m10 specs seem to be rather „low-budget“, m-Team and Limited are not listed in the dealers configurator
- yes, there will be a Orbea RS tune for the avinox Motor to meet the UCI Race Regulations- if there is an unleashed, original avinox tune for the M2s at the new wild, he didn‘t know…
- they currently don’t accept any preorders of a new wild avinox, no matter of the bikes configuration
- there is no myO available at least to Q4 2026, more likely not until Q1/2027
- no, they don‘t get any new Wilds for their showroom at all - you have to order the bike blindly, without being able to see or test it
His last words were „maybe of our orbea field sales guys could bring us one new wild for one or two….“ - that was the Moment when Elvis left the building
thanks, i am done with Orbea for a while
Today I had a very unpleasant visit to my (former) Orbea dealer, where I had already bought 2 bikes (Orbea Rise ltd myO, Scor 4060 ST - Full Eagle/axs wireless) and tons of upgrades, equipment, clothing, spare parts etc - easy more than 20k€ over 2 years - before I finally decided to go with different dealers, one for my current Crafty and second one for my new Raymon Tarok - now I know again exactly why i left this cabin full of a__ls
Long story (not so) short :
- no, we can‘t tell you anything about the new orbea wild - but i already had a private phone call before with one of the staff guys who told me the opposite and leaked some features: at the moment, they really don’t know all the specs available, but both the m20 and m10 specs seem to be rather „low-budget“, m-Team and Limited are not listed in the dealers configurator
- yes, there will be a Orbea RS tune for the avinox Motor to meet the UCI Race Regulations- if there is an unleashed, original avinox tune for the M2s at the new wild, he didn‘t know…
- they currently don’t accept any preorders of a new wild avinox, no matter of the bikes configuration
- there is no myO available at least to Q4 2026, more likely not until Q1/2027
- no, they don‘t get any new Wilds for their showroom at all - you have to order the bike blindly, without being able to see or test it
His last words were „maybe of our orbea field sales guys could bring us one new wild for one or two….“ - that was the Moment when Elvis left the building
thanks, i am done with Orbea for a while
That all seems pretty reasonable to me, I mean how much the dealer was able to share with you considering the embargo he is under. Those lead times and spec choices are in line with what my dealer shared with me when I had my own Wild on order and briefly considered waiting for the Avinox version. I was told specifically it would be a long time till I could actually get it, and I'd pay considerably more for it (as there was a 25% discount on the Bosch Wild).
Oh, I like bad*ss new bikes for certain. But I was made aware of the Avinox Wild months ago by an industry insider (privacy protected) and decided to follow through with my custom ordered Bosch Wild in spite of this knowledge. Although I have not seen the details on the new Avinox Wild, based on what I know so far, I'm totally content with my choice. What I had expected was some bad ass extra dense battery pack from DJI and that didn't happen. I don't feel like I'm losing anything at all compared to my CXR, Kiox, etc. I still prefer the guaranteed silence, chain ring protection and serviceability of the Bosch. You already know how I feel about Class2+ power levels, it's irrelevant to me.
Of course, what I could not predict was getting injured on my second Wild ride and not being able to ride for months. My reconstructive knee surgery is tomorrow, second one on this knee. Last time was from MX. In fact, this time was also from MX just put it over the edge while riding the MTB.
Deegs, makes the sport more interesting for sure and he'll absolutely be a success. That said, he was introduced to the big boys this past weekend.
AlsbachRyder
New Member
- Feb 18, 2026
- 31
- 73
In a way, that experience at the Orbea dealer was helpful—it actually reinforced my belief that pre-ordering the Raymon Tarok was the right decision.
I drove straight to that dealer right after—though I did get some bad news there at first—delivery has been pushed back to late July, early August—but as compensation, I got the upgrade to the Super Ultimate deluxe damper and the brake swap to the Maven Silver/HS2 at no extra charge.
I have confirmed the contract with a down payment and ordered the first Upgrade parts (of many more parts to come)
- Hope 155mm cranks
- Lyrik Ultimate 160mm 3.2 fork black (i‘m going to sell the Stock Lyrik Select+)
Next upgrades will be the (carbon) rims replacing the stock DT Swiss h1900 rims - don‘t know yet which one to choose?
I drove straight to that dealer right after—though I did get some bad news there at first—delivery has been pushed back to late July, early August—but as compensation, I got the upgrade to the Super Ultimate deluxe damper and the brake swap to the Maven Silver/HS2 at no extra charge.
I have confirmed the contract with a down payment and ordered the first Upgrade parts (of many more parts to come)
- Hope 155mm cranks
- Lyrik Ultimate 160mm 3.2 fork black (i‘m going to sell the Stock Lyrik Select+)
Next upgrades will be the (carbon) rims replacing the stock DT Swiss h1900 rims - don‘t know yet which one to choose?
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