Scared about reliability

[Stihldog]

My advice is on any emtb, is slow down when crossing streams, avoid submerging, and don't pressure wash anywhere near the crankshaft area. It'll be 6 months later before you realise you effed up.

I’ve had some really bad habits for the past 6-7 years with the Bosch CX on my Trek Rail. I probably wasn’t listening to the warnings when I purchased my EMTB from the LOCal Bike Shop.

Even though I don’t experience the horrible UK mud…things get wet here. Apparently my bike is not a submarine and I thought crossing creeks, as fast as possible, was ok. (I have pics and wet underwear that I won’t post here). I don’t wash my EMTB after each ride (drip dries) and I sweep up the debris later. I’m sure I’m doing everything wrong. But after 6+ years I still have the original battery and motor.

 

[Jurassic]

I’ve had some really bad habits for the past 6-7 years with the Bosch CX on my Trek Rail. I probably wasn’t listening to the warnings when I purchased my EMTB from the LOCal Bike Shop.

Even though I don’t experience the horrible UK mud…things get wet here. Apparently my bike is not a submarine and I thought crossing creeks, as fast as possible, was ok. (I have pics and wet underwear that I won’t post here). I don’t wash my EMTB after each ride (drip dries) and I sweep up the debris later. I’m sure I’m doing everything wrong. But after 6+ years I still have the original battery and motor.

I'm absolutely certain that frequent washing is bad news for eebs but I live in a flat/apartment and my bike is stored inside so not washing isn't an option. Given that I destroyed my previous motor in four years and 5000 miles being not very careful, I reckon if you are careful you should be good for a long time.

 

[Bndit]

Yes the old ones plus many other brands not 3.1

New one is also made by Brose...or should we say Yamaha these days?

 

[Polar]

New one is also made by Brose...or should we say Yamaha these days?

Yamaha may be correct but 2.2 was developed, designed and made by Brose with their logo on it but Specialized software.
Lots of other bikes also used this motor with Brose software.
3.1 is developed by Specialized they used Brose factories to assemble it but no Brose logo outside or inside motor and no other bikes is using 3.1 motor.
IPhone is iPhone even though they don't have their own factory.
Most bike frames is made at the same factory usually Taiwan without naming all the frames name of the factory.

 

[Damo152003]

I was in the same boat…. Yet somehow I bought a bike I loved but had the most unreliable motor going

I tried most motor brands and just didn’t like the feel anyhow my mate lent me his transtion relay which runs the fazua ride 60. Plenty of horror stories
But I just loved how it felt .
I ordered a transition relay last year at a mega price £3600 from 7k from wind wave.
I’m coming up to 12 months old and about 400 miles which has mostly been muddy and wet conditions …. But after every ride I remove the battery and blow it out and put the dog dryer in the frame although it’s normally spotless.
In Febuary I did 27 miles and 4500 ft of climbing in the Peak District on one battery which is 480wh.
I think most manufactures are using Bosch motors which speaks for it self really but I ended up buying what I liked riding.

 

[Damo152003]

I was in the same boat…. Yet somehow I bought a bike I loved but had the most unreliable motor going

I tried most motor brands and just didn’t like the feel anyhow my mate lent me his transtion relay which runs the fazua ride 60. Plenty of horror stories
But I just loved how it felt .
I ordered a transition relay last year at a mega price £3600 from 7k from wind wave.
I’m coming up to 12 months old and about 400 miles which has mostly been muddy and wet conditions …. But after every ride I remove the battery and blow it out and put the dog dryer in the frame although it’s normally spotless.
In Febuary I did 27 miles and 4500 ft of climbing in the Peak District on one battery which is 480wh.
I think most manufactures are using Bosch motors which speaks for it self really but I ended up buying what I liked riding.

Note I’ve had no motor failures etc

 

[simbiker]

Sounds like you are looking at the old first gen SL brose bikes with 35nm? If that is enough power for you those appear to be one of the most rock solid options for reliability. Lots of complains about the noise, but pretty much zero complaints out there about actual problems. Probably because the motor is operating well within its physical limits. But the assistance is truly minimal. Can be great if you're riding solo, but if you're riding with friends with full power bikes you'll be left in the dust. I loved my Kenevo SL, but sadly parted ways for this reason.

Agree about most issues being blown out of proportion on the internet, but also agree that it's a valid concern. Replacement costs are pretty serious and support can be hard to come by without going through dealers, meaning added expense of labor/fees.

Ultimately I'd focus more on the BIKE part of the bike to get what you want there, and if buying used just be sure to hold out for a clean and low mileage example (or a screamin deal that is so good you could survive a motor replacement down the road).

Only motor that seems truly horrid would have to be the Sram Powertrain, as evidenced by it completely disappearing from the industry.

Having tried the Amflow PL Carbon briefly before purchasing the kenevo sl and levo sl for my wife, I agree that the power difference is definitely noticeable. However, I remember another reviewer say that if you wanna have fun, get a full power bike. But if you want to stay fit and be fit, get an SL. I figured since we are somewhat new to mtb and i just need to keep up with my wife to go nature exploring; i thought these would be a good starting point.

As somewhat of a newb, something i found it surprising how much suspension tuning can affect perfromance. We took the bikes on a trail i nicknamed Punishment trail, which caused both of us to sweat profusely trying to get up and had me fall off multiple times. My bike also felt all over the place when climbing. The hill had a 15-19% incline at the peak ends and went on for a number of miles. At first i thought either the bikes were not powerful enough and/or we got lousy skills.

After we tuned the suspension to our specifications using the specialized suspension tuner, about a month later we came back it was much easier, but you definitely still had to work for the climb. It could have been a mix of other things, like the dirt was more packed and not as loose as before or the temperature. But on the climb, i remember her saying" it feels much easier. It almost feels like we are not working out." However, my wife grew up with a mountain bike but with no mountains. I, on the other hand, felt like i was working out. lol.

Also, i steepened the headset cup of the kenevo sl and shortened the stem to a 32mm have it turn in easier. I remember the loam wolf also complaining about the steering wandering/lazy or something along those lines when going uphill as well. So going up the 2nd time i would say our troubles were from more of a lack of skill rather than power.

I think the only mild complaint was the fact that i blew through half the internal battery in about 2 hrs, which i knew from the first ride. Given the type of riding we do, how long we do it for, and the type of trail this is, it is understandable. We do have range extenders (which we brought on a different 4-5 hr trip, but i later realized it was dead weight cus i only used about 60%.) Just my 2 cents to people who are considering the 35nm specialized bikes.

 

[Albertocsoares]

Your preference for the SL is completely normal coming from an acoustic bike—it’s the path most experienced cyclists choose. Regarding motors, I’ll share my experience with e-bikes.

I bought an SL 1 at the beginning of the pandemic and absolutely loved the bike. It gave me everything I wanted, including great range with the range extender. The region where I live is very harsh on MTBs—it’s extremely rocky and full of fine mineral dust that gets into everything. Since summers here are very rainy, I wash my bike once a week using a low-pressure hose.

I rode 13,000 km on the SL until the battery failed. When I replaced it (Specialized gave me a new one), I noticed that water had entered through the upper part of the bike and accumulated around the battery, eventually causing a short circuit over time.

My next bike was a locally made aluminum frame with a Shimano EP801 motor—a very enduro-oriented bike, but quite heavy, around 27 kg. I went from 19 kg on my SL to 27 kg on the new bike in exchange for more power, suspension, and battery capacity. I didn’t really like the change, but I rode 3,500 km without any issues with the Shimano system.

Then the Specialized G4 came along with all the hype and marketing—and it got me, after all, it’s a Specialized. Overall, it was an upgrade compared to my local aluminum bike: a bit more power, more comfort, and slightly less weight at 26 kg. I rode 2,500 km with no motor issues, but I saw several friends experience clutch failures after hitting pedals on rocks—again, my region is very tough on MTBs.

One day I went riding with a friend who had just bought an Amflow. When I lifted both bikes to put them in the pickup truck, I was shocked by the weight difference—the Amflow was 5 kg lighter than my G4 Expert. During the ride, I couldn’t keep up with my friend, even though his fitness level is much lower than mine. I did a test ride and ended up buying the Amflow Pro—so far, the best bike I’ve ever owned.

Even though it has less suspension than the G4, its lower weight improved my control on descents, and now my times are better than they were on the G4. Not to mention the number of KOMs I’ve achieved on technical climbs—the power delivery is the best I’ve ever experienced. I’ve ridden 3,000 km so far without any issues. I know the warranty support won’t be as fast as Specialized’s, but the growing number of Avinox systems in my region will likely improve service availability over time.

Finally, I’d like to talk about physical conditioning. E-MTB is a completely different sport from traditional MTB. You can either expend almost no energy by pedaling at low cadence and relying heavily on the motor, or you can maintain 90–100 rpm using minimal assistance—or full power—to climb sections that would otherwise be unimaginable. At 61 years old, my cardiovascular fitness is now better than it was back in the days of non-assisted bikes.

I hope this helps—good luck with your decision.

 

[simbiker]

Your preference for the SL is completely normal coming from an acoustic bike—it’s the path most experienced cyclists choose. Regarding motors, I’ll share my experience with e-bikes.

I bought an SL 1 at the beginning of the pandemic and absolutely loved the bike. It gave me everything I wanted, including great range with the range extender. The region where I live is very harsh on MTBs—it’s extremely rocky and full of fine mineral dust that gets into everything. Since summers here are very rainy, I wash my bike once a week using a low-pressure hose.

I rode 13,000 km on the SL until the battery failed. When I replaced it (Specialized gave me a new one), I noticed that water had entered through the upper part of the bike and accumulated around the battery, eventually causing a short circuit over time.

My next bike was a locally made aluminum frame with a Shimano EP801 motor—a very enduro-oriented bike, but quite heavy, around 27 kg. I went from 19 kg on my SL to 27 kg on the new bike in exchange for more power, suspension, and battery capacity. I didn’t really like the change, but I rode 3,500 km without any issues with the Shimano system.

Then the Specialized G4 came along with all the hype and marketing—and it got me, after all, it’s a Specialized. Overall, it was an upgrade compared to my local aluminum bike: a bit more power, more comfort, and slightly less weight at 26 kg. I rode 2,500 km with no motor issues, but I saw several friends experience clutch failures after hitting pedals on rocks—again, my region is very tough on MTBs.

One day I went riding with a friend who had just bought an Amflow. When I lifted both bikes to put them in the pickup truck, I was shocked by the weight difference—the Amflow was 5 kg lighter than my G4 Expert. During the ride, I couldn’t keep up with my friend, even though his fitness level is much lower than mine. I did a test ride and ended up buying the Amflow Pro—so far, the best bike I’ve ever owned.

Even though it has less suspension than the G4, its lower weight improved my control on descents, and now my times are better than they were on the G4. Not to mention the number of KOMs I’ve achieved on technical climbs—the power delivery is the best I’ve ever experienced. I’ve ridden 3,000 km so far without any issues. I know the warranty support won’t be as fast as Specialized’s, but the growing number of Avinox systems in my region will likely improve service availability over time.

Finally, I’d like to talk about physical conditioning. E-MTB is a completely different sport from traditional MTB. You can either expend almost no energy by pedaling at low cadence and relying heavily on the motor, or you can maintain 90–100 rpm using minimal assistance—or full power—to climb sections that would otherwise be unimaginable. At 61 years old, my cardiovascular fitness is now better than it was back in the days of non-assisted bikes.

I hope this helps—good luck with your decision.

 

[simbiker]

Wow that's a lot of riding and a lot of bikes in a short period of time! I really liked the Amflow too. But at the time they were only like three dealers quite far away from me that would sell it or service it. When I asked my wife to lift it and try it out she said it was a little heavy but she could lift it. I guess it was the cost and the fact that I knew there were lighter bikes which swayed my decision. She can lift my kenevo sl just fine. I just don't want to do all the lifting in the relationship. Lol

I was also worried that if somebody spotted it they would know that it's way overpowered for whatever regulations are on that trail. And also if we passed people too fast then it would be a dead giveaway that were on ebikes in the area that maybe we shouldn't be in. Yeah I guess you can hide the bike name but people know that specialized makes acoustic bikes too and I kind of like that it doesn't look that obvious.

I was also considering other options like orbea rise and trek fuel exe. However at the time I bought mine from the marketplace, there just seemed to be more availability of specialized bikes in different sizes and colors. With orbea and trek i couldn't find very many or even in my size or features that I wanted. Im also a little disappointed that none of the new avinox bikes are lighter or got much lighter than the 1st amflow. I guess there are physical limitations to how light it can be. However their system and Engineering has gotten very impressive. And I'm happy to see that others systems are coming out to rival them like from Mahle or ZF.

I'm also worried about water too which is why I never washed a bike since I got it. I probably will eventually if I happen to plow through a bunch of mud or something. Actually I just use a blower and I just use some silicone spray to wipe it down some parts like the suspension. So far everything regarding the motor and battery has been pretty reliable.

 

[brizi2003]

I am close to pulling the trigger but the horror stories I get with most every brand and down time or worse yet fighting warranty is keeping me at bay. I am looking at a Levo SL but honestly want reliability more than anything. I have been looking at 22-24 thinking the more simple electronics take away some of the possible issue points. I am open to any brand. I currently ride pivot and niner analog. Is there a most or more reliable solution? Every brand I look into seems to have major issues

I've only owned 2x Specialized (Gen1 Kenevo 2018 with 8000 miles and Creo 2020 with 16000 miles) and Trek (Powerfly LT7 2018 with 1500 miles). Both have excellent support during warranty. Kenevo had motor failure during warranty and has had the motor overhauled after warranty. Creo had motor failure during warranty and had the motor overhauled after warranty. Trek motor got noisy outside warranty and has been overhauled. Kenevo had battery failure during warranty and afterwards. Creo had battery failure during warranty. Trek battery has been fine. I bought a new battery for the Kenevo at 1/2 price £400. It failed after 12 months but was replaced under warranty. My take is that you are likely to see some failures during ownership, if you only own the bike during the warranty period then make sure you buy from a dealer/brand with a good reputation. If you plan on keeping the bike longer buy a bike which is fitted with a motor that can be repaired as it's significantly less expensive than a new motor. £1000 Vs £250 for my Specialized motors. Most but not all Specialized owners I have met personally have had problems with motors. Trek/Bosch seem more reliable. No question they have cost me more than analog bikes to own. Maybe you'll be lucky!

 

[simbiker]

It sounds like if you really use your bike and/or it gets exposed to water regularly, then you're more likely to have wear and tear on the motor and battery. I made the decision to do my own repairs and maintenance since im already pretty handy with a lot of tools doing apt maintenance and renovation. Because of budget and being a newb, I just couldn't justify new prices. I figured you can bring down the total cost of ownership of mountain biking if you do so. However, I do understand there is a roll of the dice when buying used. So I accepted that things like electronics, motor, and battery are gonna be outside of my scope and will have to eat the cost if and when they come up. The nice thing about recreational bikes is you can just leave it in the corner broken until you get around to it. However, your car or main transportation you gotta fix it right away and eat the cost.

 

[davidmc78]

I am close to pulling the trigger but the horror stories I get with most every brand and down time or worse yet fighting warranty is keeping me at bay. I am looking at a Levo SL but honestly want reliability more than anything. I have been looking at 22-24 thinking the more simple electronics take away some of the possible issue points. I am open to any brand. I currently ride pivot and niner analog. Is there a most or more reliable solution? Every brand I look into seems to have major issues

Hi andrew

I am close to pulling the trigger but the horror stories I get with most every brand and down time or worse yet fighting warranty is keeping me at bay. I am looking at a Levo SL but honestly want reliability more than anything. I have been looking at 22-24 thinking the more simple electronics take away some of the possible issue points. I am open to any brand. I currently ride pivot and niner analog. Is there a most or more reliable solution? Every brand I look into seems to have major issues

Hi Andrew, as a previous owner of a number of levo sl bikes, generally the motors are very good. They tend to wear out rather than break down. As specialized say in their instructions on correct operation, the bike is supposed to be pedalled at a reasonably high cadence, particularly due to the low torque if the motor and in my opinion, the design of the clutches and bearings in the motor. I gave my lavo a decent flogging( pedalling way too hard) for about 4000km and then the bearings and clutches started to wear out, resulting in some noise and a bit of drag with the motor turning the cranks lightly when running. My wife's levo sl never missed a beat with the same kms on it. Also, don't wash the bike upside down because the display will get water in it and cease to function. All in all, id say that they are a good reliable bike if operated as intended. Much more reliable than a full power lovo (excluding the new one)

 

[GeneralClortho]

2025 Trek Rail 7 with the Bosch Performance CX with 1,200 HARD single track miles...has been perfect.

 

[tws_andrew]

2025 Trek Rail 7 with the Bosch Performance CX with 1,200 HARD single track miles...has been perfect.

Ended up buying a 23 Heckler S Mx with the shimano ep8 and 108 miles. Should be here monday. Cannot wait. Been riding my pivot in anticipation but only covering a tiny portion of the ground in the same time

 

[MickMTB]

I am close to pulling the trigger but the horror stories I get with most every brand and down time or worse yet fighting warranty is keeping me at bay. I am looking at a Levo SL but honestly want reliability more than anything. I have been looking at 22-24 thinking the more simple electronics take away some of the possible issue points. I am open to any brand. I currently ride pivot and niner analog. Is there a most or more reliable solution? Every brand I look into seems to have major issues

It's a bit of a lottery mate, my first ,a Trek powerfly did 7000miles , Bosch motor and battery were knackered but still working when I sold it,my second a Whyte which I still have has done 9000miles, 3rd Bosch motor,2nd battery,I had to pay for the last motor and battery.Now I have an Amflow , which has been perfect so far on 2000miles, riding through the grimmest winter for years, jetwashed (low power) dozens of times. A decent dealer is most important, Ace bycycles in Guilford is the best I have used in 35yrs of MTBing

 

[irie]

A decent dealer is most important,

This ^^^

 

[High Rock Ruti]

I am close to pulling the trigger but the horror stories I get with most every brand and down time or worse yet fighting warranty is keeping me at bay. I am looking at a Levo SL but honestly want reliability more than anything. I have been looking at 22-24 thinking the more simple electronics take away some of the possible issue points. I am open to any brand. I currently ride pivot and niner analog. Is there a most or more reliable solution? Every brand I look into seems to have major issues

High Rock Ruti

I had a Brose rebuilt at the US Bearingman's Tennessee location. Looking at $400 or so with a two year warranty. Brose motors are absolute crap 2022 carbon pro 4 motors less than 1500 miles.
On the other hand the bike is fantastic nobody had the refinement of the Levo, also Specialized has been really good about warranty, last motor was out of warranty, over two years.

My bikes don't have a lot of miles, 2023 Orbea with CXR has been trouble free, it's all I ride these days about 2100 miles, short rides at 71 about 30 to 40 miles a week. No other motor failures with either Bosch or even 2016 Shimano Pivot Shuttle.

Now, cassettes and chains is another matter. I carry a new chain in my pack, replaced one just 4 weeks ago on the
trail.

Not all the news is Good however! Just rode 2026 pivot Pivot Shuttle, with Avinox M2S, just when I thought I didn't need another 10K to 15K bike. The power is intoxicating, admittedly no real need for 1500 watts, even for 60 seconds, but 1300 watts is enough to ride in automatic not turbo, (which is where the Orbea CXR lives)
Pivot makes a great riding bike, the DW rear linkage is better than any back end out there.

What a great time to be a mountain biker

Warm Regards Ruti

 

[venturavin]

Now, cassettes and chains is another matter. I carry a new chain in my pack, replaced one just 4 weeks ago on the
trail.

Just FYI they make quick links for easy trail side chain repairs, quite a bit less dead weight in your pack.

 

[RustyIron]

Ended up buying a 23 Heckler S Mx with the shimano ep8 and 108 miles. Should be here monday. Cannot wait. Been riding my pivot in anticipation but only covering a tiny portion of the ground in the same time

Nice. I had a 2021 Heckler. I enjoyed it, and Santa Cruz has really good customer service. 108 miles is brand new! Score!

 

[sjturner2112]

Vast majority of brands are very, very reliable. You are getting a head full of online bunk that is incorrectly biasing you - again, people dont go to the internet to post "hey my motor is working great this week" - they come here see whats wrong / issues/ fixes, so the only thing only you are going to see is mostly all of the various possible issues a particular motor may have. It's hard to look online, and make a quality decision.