But the Bosch is trapped in Class 1. All Bosch powered bikes are out of consideration for me until they fix that bs.
Pivot Amp’d Avinox
- Thread starter FrogSkunk
- Start date
Cyclopathic
Active member
If all other things with equal, I'd like a smaller, more analogue bike-like silhouette. But, I'd still go function over form for now.
The Maxon has great potentional to produce bikes like the Propain Sresh, but with full power, silent drive. Near utopia I'd say.
The Maxon has great potentional to produce bikes like the Propain Sresh, but with full power, silent drive. Near utopia I'd say.
ilh
Easily sorted with 5 mins of software or a bypass cable. We don't have the same restrictions as the US, but most derestrict their eebs here.
Part of what I’m paying for is the warranty. Hacking a Bosch and jeopardizing the warranty is very unattractive and eliminates it from consideration for me. Plus prudish @Greg Watts will scold me for making my bike “unsafe.”
Cyclopathic
Active member
If you do it with a bypass cable, it takes two mins to remove, and it's undetectable for warranty.
Admittedly I strongly lean against giving business to any company who doesn’t openly allow Class 3. Not going to support that bs. Especially when I believe the Class 3 capable motors from Specialized and DJI are better than Bosch anyway.
It's easy to double the speed on a Bosch and they are super reliable motors anyways. Worst possible case, you have to buy a new $900 motor, but that's highly unlikely as the Gen5 failure rate I'm told is essentially zero.
Once you remove the DJI power incentive, let's just say that I'm stoked on my CXR. It's about reliability, noise, chainring protection & long term repairability.
The only thing I really want is a drop in more dense battery. Sounds like Bosch will have that (and Class 3 speeds) just a few months after DJI.
Once you remove the DJI power incentive, let's just say that I'm stoked on my CXR. It's about reliability, noise, chainring protection & long term repairability.
The only thing I really want is a drop in more dense battery. Sounds like Bosch will have that (and Class 3 speeds) just a few months after DJI.
Cyclopathic
Active member
They simply are not better. I say this with no bias. I have genuinely owned the S-Works Levo 4, AmFlow PLC, and now the Shuttle LT CX-R.
All three are superb, each with their own selling points. Now, there's nothing to separate these motors (and Polini etc), just hype, and people wanting power levels where they'd be better off buying a Motorcross motorbike.
If you still want to pedal a *bicycle*, these three motors give you all you need.
Cyclopathic
Active member
Totally with you here. Smaller solid state batteries, and better efficiency, and ideally regenerative braking, and we're done
We're discussing opinions; not objective fact. My opinion is Avinox or Specialized are better motors than Bosch.
Factory Class 3 support would open up Bosch to my consideration. Still not a fan that with Bosch overrun is a fixed setting though. Perhaps they'll fix that with software too.
Came for the Pivot Avinox, but stayed for the Avinox vs Bosch discussion.. They both shred, but Avinox simply shreds MORE!!
Dont like extra power? Tune it right where you like it. Find yourself struggling to keep up with a group or getting tired, crank that mofo UP!
All said I would take a Bosch too if the bike was right for me, they rip still, but I believe there is more than one reason Avinox is not allowed in the same competitions with the others.. seems to simply put the eeb into a whole new "class"!
Dont like extra power? Tune it right where you like it. Find yourself struggling to keep up with a group or getting tired, crank that mofo UP!
All said I would take a Bosch too if the bike was right for me, they rip still, but I believe there is more than one reason Avinox is not allowed in the same competitions with the others.. seems to simply put the eeb into a whole new "class"!
Not that I personally need it, but it looks like there's plenty of room to slam a 200 mm (plus?) dropper.
Cyclopathic
Active member
Have you spent plenty of miles on each? If not, then you're expressing perceptions and opinions. If you have ridden plenty on all three, then fair play. I say that not to irritate you, I'm simply trying to take the position of stopping the hyped perceptions, and encourage people to actually ride them and make their own opinions. And I'd argue for the mountain bikers amongst us, there's very little between all the latest motors, and more comes down to the bike they're bolted to now.
Cyclopathic
Active member
No range extenders coming.
Cyclopathic
Active member
I don't agree at all, from my own experience. If you need that much power, it's no longer mountain biking honestly, as you don't need to put effort in hardly at all.Came for the Pivot Avinox, but stayed for the Avinox vs Bosch discussion.. They both shred, but Avinox simply shreds MORE!!
Dont like extra power? Tune it right where you like it. Find yourself struggling to keep up with a group or getting tired, crank that mofo UP!
All said I would take a Bosch too if the bike was right for me, they rip still, but I believe there is more than one reason Avinox is not allowed in the same competitions with the others.. seems to simply put the eeb into a whole new "class"!
If you're dialing down the power, then why is the Avinox any better? Exactly. It's not.
Enough with the hype! Let's encourage objective ride experience and opinions, please!
For that reason alone, I'd never get one. Too limiting for me. One awesome thing about eMTBs for me is the ability to still do 6,000 ft climbs in the backcountry and have something left if needed to get to town or whatever.
My current gen Shuttle AM and Switchblade both have 240mm droppers, so I have no doubt about 200mm dropper. At my height and prefered size (6'3 and size large), I can barely get away with a 200mm dropper. It has to be at min insertion
Of course you can disagree, however tuneability and more power is simply not hype!
Heck, Emtb can also be defined as "no longer mountain biking" across the board for those that want to be old school sticklers and this is quite alright too.
We all have various levels of fitness and also how we like to ride, having the ability to tune to your liking is a plus no matter what your preference may be.
If you never need more power good for you, but let's not take that away from the rest of us that obviously want to go faster more often with less energy inputs - basically the essence of emtb and why they are outselling meat bikes nowadays.
You want more pain for that "authentic mtb experience" - dial back the juice, you want more fun for longer either train for the world cup or dial up some watts!
How about going hard tail single speed to really amp things up "mountain biking" wise - forget the "E"?!
I have spent "plenty" of miles on each; and completely disagree that there's very little difference between all the latest motors. Actually, I wish I shared your perspective; it would make choosing a bike much easier.
Cyclopathic
Active member
You make some decent points, and thanks for being objective, that's what discussion should be. But, you seem to think I'm anti-Avinox. I'm simply not.
As shuttle bikes, the extra power from Avinox make sense. I'll repeat though, I loved the Avinox, I'm no hater, it's a great system. I just don't think the majority need anymore than Bosch, Polini, Spesh, etc etc provide.
If people want a great eMTB, Avinox is simply no better, the other systems have plenty of tunability. And let's be honest, 95% of riders just set and forget, and use mostly the preset modes, which are superb.
Again, trying to be objective and remember what this sport has always been about; enjoying a pedal-powered way to get into the mountains and hills, whilst enjoying the fun which is mtb'ing. Sorry if that objectivity isn't to your tastes, but I'm just a lifelong lover of mountain bikes and mtb'ing.
Cyclopathic
Active member
I simply find that hard to believe, sorry. There's not many people who have owned, and objectively put all three of these through their paces. I have, and have no affiliation whatsoever, and say apart from the overkill boost power, they're all superb motors.
Never said you were anti avinox, and I even stated I would take a Bosch bike if it was the right bike for me when you disagreed with me.
You saying "you dont think the majority needs more power" than any other motor on the market besides the Avinox.. well, that just sounds a bit subjective!
Cyclopathic
Active member
Can't disagree with you there, it is subjective indeed, and only my opinion.Never said you were anti avinox, and I even stated I would take a Bosch bike if it was the right bike for me when you disagreed with me.
You saying "you dont think the majority needs more power" than any other motor on the market besides the Avinox.. well, that just sounds a bit subjective!
If people are enjoying the trails, and buying the bike which maximises that fun, then that's what biking should always be about.
My worry is, Marketing as it is, will keep convincing us we need more, and more, and more power and torque, and for this sport, there objectively comes a point it fails to be mountain *biking* and not essentially motor-crossing with token pedals.
Either way, great time to enjoy bikes, for all shapes and sizes.
You've done it, yet find it hard to believe others have too. Got it.
Cyclopathic
Active member
Not quite buddy. What I find hard to believe, is if people like me did an unbiased, owner-based review on each of these motors and systems, they'd notice a radical and even noticeable difference (excluding the Avinox motorbike boost mode). That's what I'd call anyone on. Hype and boost mode aside, *objectively* there's little to separate what are *all* superb, benchmark motors.You've done it, yet find it hard to believe others have too. Got it.
I'm truly not being sarcastic when I say I wish I couldn't tell the difference. They might all be "supurb" but they all have unique personalities.
Cyclopathic
Active member
There we do agree 100% and that should be part of what helps people decide on their eMTB. And I'm sure we'd also agree that it should also not be that people believe the hype that Avinox is automatically better and but a bike based on the motor alone. It's different, and excellent, but simply not better, per se.
I've watched an embarrassing amount of videos/reviews on the AF... like, every one. Read every article I can find on the subject.. (on the shelf for last several months from a surgical repair to ankle, so i got time) I think every piece of info I could find on it, the people talking about it who rode it, all said it was the best ebike on the market. I haven't ridden it, or any ebike, but there seems to be a consenous it's the best ebike for most people not doing Red Bull competition
Can't wait to own one
Soon as I can turn the cranks, Hello Amflow!!!
Cyclopathic
Active member
Hope you enjoy it.I've watched an embarrassing amount of videos/reviews on the AF... like, every one. Read every article I can find on the subject.. (on the shelf for last several months from a surgical repair to ankle, so i got time) I think every piece of info I could find on it, the people talking about it who rode it, all said it was the best ebike on the market. I haven't ridden it, or any ebike, but there seems to be a consenous it's the best ebike for most people not doing Red Bull competition
Can't wait to own one
Soon as I can turn the cranks, Hello Amflow!!!
Read the recent UK MBR reviews. They preferred the Avinox motor to the Bosch, but wanted to ride the Bosch-powered Pivot Shuttle AM most, over the AmFlow. A great example that the total package matters more than just the motor
Happy trails whatever you choose, but I'd recommend testing a few first.
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