Industry Veteran Hans Rey Calls for Clearer E-Bike Definitions

Here we go: Lawler Joins Bipartisan Safe Speeds Act To Strengthen E-Bike Safety Standards Nationwide

So maybe this answers my federal standard question, i.e. doesn't exist currently. Similar to the EU, without broader standards at the federal level manufacturers have more latitude to sell e-bikes which may or may not be complaint.

I'm not for more regulation, but many products have some federal level standard be it DOT, CPSC, UL, etc... leaving it a the state level, is like CARB vs. 48 state compliant vehicles. It still happens, as some states have differing laws regarding light bulbs (efficiency, incandescent banned), pesticides/insecticides (certain types banned), paint/chemicals (VOC levels), etc...
 
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Here we go: Lawler Joins Bipartisan Safe Speeds Act To Strengthen E-Bike Safety Standards Nationwide

So maybe this answers my federal standard question, i.e. doesn't exist currently. Similar to the EU, without broader standards at the federal level manufacturers have more latitude to sell e-bikes which may or may not be complaint.

I'm not for more regulation, but many products have some federal level standard be it DOT, CPSC, UL, etc... leaving it a the state level, is like CARB vs. 48 state compliant vehicles. It still happens, as some states have differing laws regarding light bulbs (efficiency, incandescent banned), pesticides/insecticides (certain types banned), paint/chemicals (VOC levels), etc...

First, on a personal note, I don’t support this bill and very much hope it dies in the House. It’s somewhat comforting to think the current House, Senate, and Presidential leadership likely wouldn’t advance this bill, but who knows what the future holds.

Reads to me like Lawler bill is about collecting data on injuries/fatalities from riding an off road electric device (goes beyond bikes). Perhaps it’s not the most favorable assumption, but it appears to me Lawler and supporters of this bill are hoping to build a case for more regulation.

If you live in Lawler’s district please vote him out.

Endorsing organizations include PeopleForBikes, League of American Bicyclists, National Bicycle Dealers Association, Consumer Reports, Safe Routes Partnership, International Association of Chiefs of Police, Advocates for Highway and Auto Safety, and Rails-to-Trails Conservancy.
Consider all these organizations to be on my Shit List.
 
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Open Letter to the Bicycle Industry https://www.pinkbike.com/news/an-open-letter-to-the-bicycle-industry.html#commenttop

That's it, all the new power emtbs are e-mopeds 🤔

View attachment 178618
Fundamentally, I would agree with him. Some of the bikes coming out now are touting 60 miles an hour. Additionally, in many instances, they are in the hands of young riders, who don't know how to control them. Unless there is some form of regulation, there are distinct possibility of E bikes, being banned all together. Where I live in Chicago there are areas where they have been banned already. I've personally seen kids on very high powered e-bikes driving down sidewalks in crowded areas (Wheaton and Glen Ellyn) and there have been a number of instances of serious accidents. I ride a Haibike Class 1 and would hate to see bans coming into effect.
 
Sorry Hans, but I think you already know what class 1, 2, and 3 means.. and e-bike is a generic term that does not really need further specification.

So is the real issue to address watts here, or is it risk based on how and where these things are being ridden?! Or is this money based?

If speed equates to risk than we need to ban downhill bikes too since they can go fast and cause risk to others on trails. How many of us hit the brakes at 20 mph going downhill EVER?!! Havent been banned yet for some reason?!

Also if this is how laws are defined, no one should be allowed to hike on trails, as they are obviously adding to the risk of cyclists.

If you are not hurting anyone or putting others at risk with your hobbies, I think you are ok. If folks are getting visibly scared and upset, and even worse injured by your riding this may have to do with the person on the bike more than the wattage and torque specs.

Common sense goes a lot further than restricting watts. We also need common sense when defining laws and making "industry veteran statements"...
 
[The data] suggests that E-MTB is already a significant and established part of the wider cycling landscape rather than a marginal or emerging category. That has a direct bearing on the regulation discussion. Any proposal that materially restricts access or introduces additional barriers needs to be considered in the context of the scale of use, the diversity of riders, and the environments in which these bikes are actually being used.
(my emphasis added in the above (truncated) quote)

The entire post was very helpful, but the snippet above highlights a crucial point about considering barriers in relation to the scale of usage. This is why I’ve mentioned here that I believe excessive regulation could actually hinder the growth of the eMTB segment and, ironically, slow down the progress of trail access.

I believe a primary objective of the industry should be to maximize the adoption rate of eMTB, as we’ll gain strength in numbers. In my opinion, overregulating the capabilities of eMTB contradicts this goal.
 
Connecticut doesn’t allow small kids to ride dirt bikes or quads off road? You’re required to register and insure your dirt bike like a road motorcycle even when it never sees a public roadway in CT?

Also, I think eMTB should have the identical power and speed limits cars, boats, motorcycles, and analogue bicycles employ. None… and there’s a lot more power, speed, and deaths due to cars and motorcycles than eMTB (even per capita). Somehow we’re still not governing their output.

Fundamentally I disagree with the premise that limiting power and speed will protect access to trails. What will protect access is a complete overhaul of the class system to one that clears up the definition of eMTB, eMoto, and eRoad. Speed and power isn’t the best way to clarify the distinction IMO. That’s why I disagree with Hans’ letter.

No. Too big a difference between say, New Jersey (the highest population density in the US) and someplace like Wyoming or Montana.
Not to mention the fact that laws passed in 'nanny states' like New Jersey would never be passed states like Montana or Wyoming.

But I think the speed/power argument is a logical fallacy. How many times has anybody on this thread ever ridden a Class 1 EMTB at 20 mph (32kph) for more than a few minutes on level ground (like paved streets)? My guess is almost nobody rides that fast going uphill (I certainly never have) - and downhill speeds will often be 20mph+ whether you're riding an unpowered MTB - or and EMTB with 850W of power.

The issue is THROTTLE - not power. So EMTB speed/speed limits seem like a specious argument to me. Class 1 vs. all others seems to fit the bill.
 
The issue is THROTTLE - not power. So EMTB speed/speed limits seem like a specious argument to me.

I think it’s both, whether an e-bike hits whatever mph and sustains it on level ground via a throttle or by merely spinning some cranks doesn’t really matter.

Class 1 vs. all others seems to fit the bill.

I agree with this, but then I’m what Hans Rey would describe as a ‘class 1 advocate’.

[UK perspective alert] If the definition of class 1 gets changed (ie 1250w/125Nm etc) and we can still access public trails unhindered the same as any pedal bicycle, then I’m ok with it. I’m not afraid of more powerful e-bikes, I’m concerned about losing legal trail access that I currently enjoy. If changing it means more hoops (insurance/registration etc) or loss of trail access) then no thank you. [/UK perspective alert]

If it would work differently for any other countries or jurisdictions, then absolutely fine. Manufacturers can supply different bikes for different regions exactly the same as now.
 
E-MTBs will cease to be classified as bicycles if the power keeps increasing. As it stands now they allow many people to do what that can’t do on a regular MTB, yet that’s not enough for some it seems. The powers that be are seeing all sorts of issues with electric bicycles and will do something about it!
Pretty simple really.
 
E-MTBs will cease to be classified as bicycles if the power keeps increasing. As it stands now they allow many people to do what that can’t do on a regular MTB, yet that’s not enough for some it seems. The powers that be are seeing all sorts of issues with electric bicycles and will do something about it!
Pretty simple really.
Also with electric scooters (with hand throttles of course) travelling at high speeds in pedestrian only or shared pedestrian and cycling routes.
 
E-MTBs will cease to be classified as bicycles if the power keeps increasing. As it stands now they allow many people to do what that can’t do on a regular MTB, yet that’s not enough for some it seems. The powers that be are seeing all sorts of issues with electric bicycles and will do something about it!
Pretty simple really.
The industry should proactively address this possibility by defining an eMTB that excludes power as a criterion.
 
E-MTBs will cease to be classified as bicycles if the power keeps increasing.
Not necessarily... and definitely not everyplace in the world! A 1500W eMTB being classified as a motorcycle shouldn't be seen as a fait accompli. No need to mandate cutting off everyone's foreskin because you're concerned they may be promiscuous in the future.
 
As a general comment, I think the license and registration aspects can do do fall into largly two completely different buckets/approaches, which varies greatly between countries and localities.

The #1 case is that you want to identify individuals or vehicles or animals/livestock etc. As a society - assuming no hidden agenda - it is good to know who owns and operates a vehicle, who has animals that might transmit deseases, and in general sources that might bring up an issue with public health and safety. All of this can be above the board, licensing and/or registration might be provided at minimal or even no cost to the individual etc.

Case #2, is that you providing this "registration/licensing" or whatever, as means of control / limiting access, often accompanied by tests or fees or both. This might be in professional fields where certain professionals try to keep exclusive rights of practicing or ensuring minimum standards(e.g. anything from Medical Doctors, to Nurses, to Lawyers, to Architects or Civil Engineers etc). It could also be used as a hurdle to stop people from doing something in an unlimited fashion that could harm the environment or introduces costs . From fishing, to hunting, to access to State parks, or registration of vehicles that goes up based on Emissions + miles of these vehicles per year etc.

I am not in favor of introducing licensing in case #2 flavor for eBicycles/moppets, because I sincerely believe that it is a societal benefit to have those easily accessible to people. It helps people commute without the need for a large automobile, it helps people access nature, exercise (even little bit is better than none) etc, all positives.

I do believe that registration for identification purposes is beneficial for all vehicles that travel on public roads, and I would include all throttled bikes in this, but would also like to see it for eMTBs that want to go past 20mph "assisted".
Rated Helmets should also be required at any moment for operating any 2-wheeled vehicles AND, even provided by the State discounted or even free for people who cannot afford them. The public cost for hospitalizing/caring for victims of silly accidents is way more than that of a helmet. Societies need to be smart about that. I bet if that will be the case, many companies will simply bundle the helmets with their bikes - especially eBikes/mopeds etc that are typically above a minimum $ (i.e. unrealistic to expect that from Walmart with their $50-150 bikes, but realistic for their $500+ electric ones).

The registration will be a method of identifying people who ride recklessly or trespass into areas where motor vehicles are not allowed to be - i.e. mixed trails like the ones we are talking about and will need to be cited. You don't need to charge crazy $ for this. Again, you want to encourage good manners and sharing the streets, having riders wear a minimum level of protection etc - not to make $ or even cover your admin costs 100%. It is not for gate-keeping, it is for...officiating.

Ofc for someone who rides in the middle of nowhere, that's not that important, I would agree, but for those who ride in public streets and trails that might be shared by 1000s of people a day, it becomes important. And as with virtually any program, making it universal and one-rule-for-all, ends up lowering costs significantly vs. trying to individualize it and adjudicate it in a case by case basis. We are talking registration here, not citations.
 
There should be 1 class, not 3. It's about the rider, not the bike. Motors give average riders superpowers that turn them into TdF cyclists. But they don't have the experience, skills and athleticism to handle that power without significantly more risk for themselves and others. Importantly, riders need to be engaged and invested in the activity and others around them.
So limit throttle to 10 and power to 20. "If you're not pedaling above 10 and vigorously above 20, plate it!" Easy to legislate, implement and enforce. 750w to help with loads and hills is a little harder to regulate and enforce; typically only after the fact (accident or citation). But 1 class covers 90-95% of use cases. For the other 5-10% there are existing laws to cover more throttle, speed and power.

Open Letter to the Bicycle Industry https://www.pinkbike.com/news/an-open-letter-to-the-bicycle-industry.html#commenttop

That's it, all the new power emtbs are e-mopeds 🤔

View attachment 178618
 
The "anti-regulation" crowd is missing the point: it’s about trail access. If we ignore power and speed limits, there is no logical reason to ban dirt bikes from MTB trails. Throttles and high wattage allow inexperienced riders to reach dangerous speeds and damage trails through burnouts and drifting—activities they rarely spend time or money to repair.

While a strong rider can and does hit 20mph on a pedal bike & flat+smooth terrain, the average "weekend warrior" can't sustain that on knobby tires. I don't think you run Mezcals and Racekings on your eMTB, do you? Even with a 60Nm bike, you climb uphill at least 2x and often 3x as fast as you could under your own power.

Yet "we need more"...no, you frikkin don't. Would it be fun? Hell yes. But not on shared paths with other bikes and hikers and equestrians.
200mph in a car would be fun too, but ... not in public streets.

High-powered eMTBs create a massive speed delta that intimidates hikers and traditional cyclists. Manufacturers like DJI pushing the limits with "boost modes" and Specialized introducing Class II modes etc, only invites stricter classification. If we keep pushing the "inch" we were given into a mile, we’ll all end up classified as e-motos and banned from public land. If you want a Surron, buy one along with a trailer and ride it on your backyard, dirt bike tracks and jeep paths etc — insisting on de-restricting bikes - when 750W peak power is already 3x what the law allows for, risks ruining bicycle access for the rest of us.
There should be 1 class, not 3. It's about the rider, not the bike. Motors give average riders superpowers that turn them into TdF cyclists. But they don't have the experience, skills and athleticism to handle that power without significantly more risk for themselves and others. Importantly, riders need to be engaged and invested in the activity and others around them.
So limit throttle to 10 and power to 20. "If you're not pedaling above 10 and vigorously above 20, plate it!" Easy to legislate, implement and enforce. 750w to help with loads and hills is a little harder to regulate and enforce; typically only after the fact (accident or citation). But 1 class covers 90-95% of use cases. For the other 5-10% there are existing laws to cover more throttle, speed and power.
 
There should be 1 class, not 3. It's about the rider, not the bike. Motors give average riders superpowers that turn them into TdF cyclists. But they don't have the experience, skills and athleticism to handle that power without significantly more risk for themselves and others. Importantly, riders need to be engaged and invested in the activity and others around them.
So limit throttle to 10 and power to 20. "If you're not pedaling above 10 and vigorously above 20, plate it!" Easy to legislate, implement and enforce. 750w to help with loads and hills is a little harder to regulate and enforce; typically only after the fact (accident or citation). But 1 class covers 90-95% of use cases. For the other 5-10% there are existing laws to cover more throttle, speed and power.
There are some valid points in both of these posts, and I think they’re worth separating out slightly, as they are addressing different parts of the same issue.

On the first point, I agree that this is fundamentally about access. Once different types of machines begin to overlap in capability—particularly around speed, power, and throttle use—the distinction between a bicycle and a light motor vehicle becomes less clear. At that point, the question of where each is appropriate becomes unavoidable.

The concern about higher-powered devices, throttles, and rider behaviour affecting shared trail environments is a reasonable one. Particularly on mixed-use paths, large differences in speed and control can create both real and perceived risk, and perception alone can be enough to drive access restrictions.

At the same time, I think it is important to avoid treating all e-MTB use as a single category. A low-speed pedal-assist bike used responsibly on a shared trail is not the same as a higher-powered throttle-driven device being used aggressively. If those are grouped together, the behaviour of one segment can end up defining policy for all.

That leads into the second point around classification.

A single class system is simple, but it risks losing the distinctions that actually matter in practice. The current multi-class approach—while not perfect—at least attempts to separate different use cases (pedal assist vs throttle, speed limits, intended environments). Without that separation, enforcement becomes easier in theory, but less accurate in practice.

I think the underlying issue in both posts is the same: how to maintain access while managing risk.

From what I see here in Greece, access is often less about formal regulation in isolation and more about how riders are perceived by the people who live and work in those landscapes—farmers, shepherds, landowners, and other regular users of those tracks and routes. That applies whether you are on public roads, shared rural tracks, or areas that are managed informally at a local level.

That dynamic is not universal, and regional differences matter.

In the UK, access is more formally structured, with defined rights of way and a clear legal framework. In much of mainland Europe, there is generally a stronger culture of regulated access, often supported by national or regional standards and designated trail systems. In the United States, access is typically determined through a mix of federal, state, and locally managed land, with formal designation and liability considerations playing a central role.

Greece operates somewhat differently. While there is formal law, a significant proportion of access in rural and mountainous areas is shaped by local custom, personal relationships, and day-to-day acceptance by those who use and manage the land. It is less codified, but still consistent in practice.

It is also worth noting that, in relative terms, mountain biking—and particularly E-MTB—is still a relatively small participation activity in markets such as Greece. Available data suggests that the overall bicycle market is modest in scale and growing at low single-digit rates annually, indicating that this is not yet a high-penetration cycling environment.

At the same time, there are consistent signals that e-bike use is increasing, supported by both consumer interest and government incentive programmes. While there is no reliable published data specifically for E-MTB sales at national or regional level (including Crete), the broader trend is clearly one of gradual growth rather than saturation.

In practical terms, this places E-MTB in Greece in a developing phase: small in absolute numbers, but expanding, particularly in areas where terrain and tourism create favourable conditions.

So I agree that overly broad or blunt regulation can be counterproductive, particularly if it doesn’t distinguish between different types of use.

At the same time, I think the more durable approach is one that recognises scale, but also focuses on proportionality—matching any controls to the actual risk, the type of riding, and the specific environment, rather than applying a single solution across all contexts.
 
At this point, it seems to me that there are four main positions in the debate around (e)bike regulation:
  1. Keep things as they are (with factory limits on speed and power for pedelecs / Class 1).
  2. Remove factory limits, but introduce proper regulation for all bicycles used in public spaces, such as rider licensing, insurance, and ID plates (including for trail use in case of accidents with hikers or other riders).
  3. Remove all limits - full stop.
  4. Increase the current limits to something more realistic (for example, 40 km/h and 750 W).
I used to support option 1, but after discussing the topic more thoroughly, I find myself leaning toward option 2. Curious if others have had a similar change of perspective.

I tend to agree now that people riding bicycles in public spaces should be identifiable, through some form of license and an ID plate on the bike, and an insurance. But I do not think that introducing fees or taxation for riders, which would be a different issue altogether, would be fair and wise, given the clear benefits of cycling: minimal space usage, no noise, no pollution, health benefits, and generally lower risk in case of collisions.

That said, there’s a practical issue that I think is often overlooked: how would this apply to children? Should a 3-year-old need some form of “license” to ride in a park with their parents on a bycicle with training wheels? Or a 10-year-old to cycle to school? This seems like a non-trivial challenge for any realistic regulatory approach.

Moreover, one should also consider that even a modest cost for a license and a registration plate, applied to a vehicle that can cost as little as €50 (which is the typical price of used bikes here or in Amsterdam for commuting and everyday tasks like taking children to school by most of the people), would represent a significant disincentive to its use and would likely trigger widespread public rage. You need to consider also that bicycle commuting in the US is relatively limited, but is very popular here and in The Netherlands, Paris, some places in Gemany, etc.

In my view, this is the main limitation of the proposal.
Bicycle Licenses should be taken at School.
One day per month, kids would toy/play with signs, and traffic rules.
Nothing to complicated.
Could be a mix of games (board games), to card games, or other funny thing.
Kids at these age (6years old, 7...8...9.. ) they absorve a lot of information.
But kids would be teached more than "rules & signs".

An educational program could be made, to avoid some common problems.
Ex: Green light on the zebras, mean you can walk through to the other side. But alert then, that is always good to look before crossing, to have eye-contact with the driver, and if there is traffic, and it's to much packed, they should be alert in the spaces between cars (motorcycles/biles/mopeds can come from there).

A final exam, would be taken at 4th grade (10years old), and from there kids wouldn't need to be with an adult to ride on the street.

Note: Ages can move forward or not. But the idea, would be tomuse school platform to teach and alert all on Traffic and it's rules.

BTW: the exam would be simple, and nothing to demanding, but touching the critical points:
What to avoid, what not to do, how to ride, important signs, etc.


For all other users, goverments could make an online course, with tutorials and videos, with a duration of around 15hours (or less).
At the end, there would be an exam.
 
I continue to read posts on power, as if 750W vs 1.000W is a big jump.

It's not!

Surrons are like 8.000W, stock!
Let alone 72V mod, which can lead to 32.000W!

Moreover...
Without throotle, an EBIKE will continue to require rider imput.
Even if it's 800% (I think DJI is around this), 1.000W assistance, would require a rider power of 125W - not much, but it's something.


The issue, of using FULL POWER, is battery consuption.
So, if it would be possible to use 1.000W all the time (that's not realistic!), a rider would end a Ride in less than an Hour! (Around 45min!).

ALL, or 99% of people that get their EBIKE, want to have fun, for a bit longer than 45min.

So in resume:
Power limitation, is a no-problem.
Power limitation, is nonsense, when you have in place a Speed Limitation
 
I've watched this debate unfurl, and I can see valid points from both sides; those who feel eMTBs should be free to have as much power as we want, and those who feel we should self-regulate before the legislative authorities do it for us (and not to our liking!).

Today we've seen some genuine-looking exposure of the new Avinox M2 motor that appears to deliver 130Nm and 1300W!

For anyone who was already questioning whether (a) 1000W was already more than enough for our usage, and (b) whether it was excessive enough to draw the attention of the regulatory authorities, I think those reflections are now redundant. If this new launch continues the power contest between the motor manufacturers as they struggle to retain market share, then I fear for what we may see next!

So I will now add my 2 cents worth of opinion into the mix.

1 - as off-road eMTB enthusiasts we represent a very very small minority of the total e-bike market. The vast majority of e-bikes are used in road/urban environments. As such, the regulatory authorities will act when they perceive that modern e-bikes that no longer adhere to Class 1 restrictions have become a risk to the safety of their - often inexperienced - users, other cyclists, pedestrians, and other road users such as cars, buses, trucks etc. Although we may remonstrate that we do not play a part in these urban safety concerns while we are out riding in the woods, I doubt whether the authorities will take any notice and we will be subject to whatever new restrictions they - in their wisdom - consider are now necessary to regulate the urban e-bike environment.

2 - those who argue that it's speed and not power that is the safety issue may have a point for off-road riding. But power defines acceleration, and in an urban environment excessively rapid acceleration can also be considered to be a safety hazard. In any case, whatever we think, speed and power are obvious and easy parameters to regulate and likely to be targeted by the authorities.

3 - I think that when we are talking about e-bikes with very high powered motors (now 1300W) the distinction between pedelecs - which must be pedalled - and mopeds -which are throttle operated - becomes irrelevant. At such powers the act of pedalling requires essentially insignificant muscular effort and the rotating of the cranks just serves to act as a switch/throttle to deliver the motor power. With Avinox's previous 800% support (now even higher?) simply turning the pedals is like unleashing an invisible Mark Cavendish on your cranks!

4 - I agree with Hans Rey's initial comment that we should define an eMTB intended for off-road riding as a different category within the generic classification of e-bikes, so that it can be protected from regulations and restrictions that might reasonably be applied to other e-bikes for reasons of perceived safety in an urban or road environment. Unfortunately, many of us may ride our eMTBs on the road to get to our trails and this is where we would now become subject to the generic regulations. If this involves limiting our speed and/or motor power while riding on tarmac, then either that becomes a matter of personal responsibility (just as sticking to the urban speed limit in a car) or it might potentially be manageable through new GPS-based technology that would "know" when we are in urban or road locations that are subject to these restrictions. I've already seen an example of this used in a concept e-bike in Germany (if I recall correctly).

It will be interesting to see what the shock waves from Avinox's new motor launch do to the other players in the eMTB industry and how they respond!
 
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Nothing like bouncing off the speed limiter to really lively up your ride.

I’m excited for the first ever EMTB drags. 50lb, 2000nm war horses, battling for supremacy on the 1/4 mile. You do have to pedal to 200mph, but it’s easy.
Please make sure you have a good popcorn maker. It’s going to be a good show.

130
150
180
200 nm
There’s no end.
Gonna need a thicker chain.
 
I've watched this debate unfurl, and I can see valid points from both sides; those who feel eMTBs should be free to have as much power as we want, and those who feel we should self-regulate before the legislative authorities do it for us (and not to our liking!).

Today we've seen some genuine-looking exposure of the new Avinox M2 motor that appears to deliver 130Nm and 1300W!

For anyone who was already questioning whether (a) 1000W was already more than enough for our usage, and (b) whether it was excessive enough to draw the attention of the regulatory authorities, I think those reflections are now redundant. If this new launch continues the power contest between the motor manufacturers as they struggle to retain market share, then I fear for what we may see next!

So I will now add my 2 cents worth of opinion into the mix.

1 - as off-road eMTB enthusiasts we represent a very very small minority of the total e-bike market. The vast majority of e-bikes are used in road/urban environments. As such, the regulatory authorities will act when they perceive that modern e-bikes that no longer adhere to Class 1 restrictions have become a risk to the safety of their - often inexperienced - users, other cyclists, pedestrians, and other road users such as cars, buses, trucks etc. Although we may remonstrate that we do not play a part in these urban safety concerns while we are out riding in the woods, I doubt whether the authorities will take any notice and we will be subject to whatever new restrictions they - in their wisdom - consider are now necessary to regulate the urban e-bike environment.

2 - those who argue that it's speed and not power that is the safety issue may have a point for off-road riding. But power defines acceleration, and in an urban environment excessively rapid acceleration can also be considered to be a safety hazard. In any case, whatever we think, speed and power are obvious and easy parameters to regulate and likely to be targeted by the authorities.

3 - I think that when we are talking about e-bikes with very high powered motors (now 1300W) the distinction between pedelecs - which must be pedalled - and mopeds -which are throttle operated - becomes irrelevant. At such powers the act of pedalling requires essentially insignificant muscular effort and the rotating of the cranks just serves to act as a switch/throttle to deliver the motor power. With Avinox's previous 800% support (now even higher?) simply turning the pedals is like unleashing an invisible Mark Cavendish on your cranks!

4 - I agree with Hans Rey's initial comment that we should define an eMTB intended for off-road riding as a different category within the generic classification of e-bikes, so that it can be protected from regulations and restrictions that might reasonably be applied to other e-bikes for reasons of perceived safety in an urban or road environment. Unfortunately, many of us may ride our eMTBs on the road to get to our trails and this is where we would now become subject to the generic regulations. If this involves limiting our speed and/or motor power while riding on tarmac, then either that becomes a matter of personal responsibility (just as sticking to the urban speed limit in a car) or it might potentially be manageable through new GPS-based technology that would "know" when we are in urban or road locations that are subject to these restrictions. I've already seen an example of this used in a concept e-bike in Germany (if I recall correctly).

It will be interesting to see what the shock waves from Avinox's new motor launch do to the other players in the eMTB industry and how they respond!
That’s a useful contribution, and I think it helps move the discussion onto more practical ground.

I agree with the point that once power and speed move beyond a certain threshold, the distinction between a pedal-assist bicycle and a light motor vehicle starts to lose clarity. At that level—whether it is 1000W, 1300W, or higher—the mechanical requirement to pedal becomes secondary to the motor output, and that has implications for both classification and access.

The point about acceleration is also valid. In an off-road environment, sustained top speed is often limited by terrain, but acceleration still matters. Rapid changes in speed, particularly on shared trails, can create risk for other users even if absolute speed is not excessive. That is likely why regulators tend to focus on both speed and power—they are measurable, enforceable, and directly linked to risk profiles.

Where I would separate this slightly is between environments.

In urban and road settings, the majority of e-bike use takes place, and this is where regulatory attention is most likely to be focused. That is driven by higher rider density, a wider mix of users, and a greater likelihood of collisions involving pedestrians, vehicles, and less experienced riders.

Off-road eMTB use sits in a different context. In places such as Greece, access is influenced less by formal classification alone and more by how riders are perceived by those who live and work in those areas—farmers, shepherds, landowners, and other regular users of the tracks. Responsible behaviour tends to maintain access; poor behaviour can result in informal restrictions regardless of what the law technically allows.

It is also worth recognising that Greece, the UK, mainland Europe, and the United States all operate under different access models. The UK relies on defined rights of way, much of Europe uses more structured regulatory frameworks, and the United States often manages access through designated land use at federal, state, and local levels. Greece sits somewhere different again, where formal law exists but practical access is often shaped by local custom and acceptance.

On the market side, I think your point is important context. Off-road eMTB riders represent a small proportion of the overall e-bike user base. Most e-bikes are used in urban or commuting environments, and that is where the majority of incidents—and therefore regulatory attention—are likely to arise.

That creates a structural issue: regulation is likely to be driven by urban risk profiles, but applied across the entire category. If distinctions are not maintained, there is a risk that off-road eMTB use becomes indirectly affected by measures that were not designed with that use case in mind.

So I agree that there is a balance to be struck.

If power and capability continue to increase without clear boundaries, it is reasonable to expect regulatory response. At the same time, a single, undifferentiated approach risks conflating very different types of use.

From a practical standpoint, maintaining access probably depends less on arguing for no regulation at all, and more on ensuring that any framework clearly distinguishes between use cases, environments, and types of equipment—and that behaviour on the ground supports that distinction.
 
On the suppose Avinox power - 1.3KW (or 1300W), I can say it isn't too much power.

A simple HONDA NVS50cc 4 stroke scooter, has around 3KW and you really feel sorry for all those Pizza'boys, and their POWERFULL scooters (ahahaha). And those have throotles!

Ebikes, require RIDER imput.
Even if DJI can supply 1300W and have 800% assistance, rider needs to put +160W of power. This sounds low (and it is, by road cycling sport), but most riders, will suffer to sustain 160W for 36min... after which, battery would be dead/drained!


To those that like write about HOW danger is POWER, let's clarify that.

Danger is SPEED.

1- The energy bikes/ebikes have when speeding varies significantly with speed.

2- Every bike or ebike, has the highest speed downhill.
Most just by coasting...
High speed, I mean 50km/h...60km/h, or even 90km/h on some descents.

3- In today's law and rules, Ebikes are restricted to 25km/h // 20mph, so, even power could triple or be 10x more, once reached speed limit, ebike is no more assisted.


Resume:
Danger = Speed
Speed is Limited per Law
 
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I’ve taken some time to look at the points raised in the thread alongside the available data, and how this plays out in practice across different regions.

On the market side first, the available data is reasonably consistent in direction, even if the exact numbers vary by source and definition. E-MTB is clearly not a fringe category. A sensible working range is roughly $8–10 billion annually, representing around 20–25% of the global e-bike market by value. At the same time, it is worth keeping that in proportion — off-road E-MTB riders still represent a relatively small subset of the overall e-bike user base. The majority of e-bike use globally remains urban, commuting, and utility focused.

That distinction appears relevant, because most regulatory attention is driven by what is happening in urban environments, rather than off-road use.

On the U.S. bill, having read through the draft in more detail, I can see why there are concerns. A substantial part of it is focused on structured data collection and analysis — specifically crashes, injuries, and fatalities — and this applies not just to low-speed e-bikes, but to a wider category of off-road electric devices.

In principle, collecting better data is a reasonable objective. However, the detail is important. The language in the bill refers to absolute counts (crashes, injuries, fatalities), with no explicit reference to exposure-based measures — for example incidents per number of riders, per distance travelled, or per hours of use. Without that context, there is a possibility that the data could be interpreted in ways that do not reflect relative risk. That is the point at which the underlying methodology becomes critical.

Looking at the broader discussion in this thread, there are valid points on both sides.

The concern about power, speed, and trail access is understandable. If limits are removed entirely, the distinction between an eMTB and a light electric motorbike becomes less clear, which has implications for shared trail systems. Equally, the point about rider behaviour and experience is relevant — increased capability does not necessarily come with increased skill.

On the question of speed, there is a well-established evidence base from road safety research. At around 20 mph (32 km/h), pedestrian fatality risk in a collision is typically in the range of 5–10%. By 30 mph (48 km/h), that rises to roughly 20–40%, increasing significantly beyond that. The key point is that risk increases non-linearly with speed.

That supports the view that speed is a critical variable.

At the same time, those figures are derived from road traffic collisions and are not directly transferable to off-road riding. In addition, speed is not the only factor. Acceleration, control, terrain, rider behaviour, and interaction with other users all contribute. Power influences how quickly speed is reached and how it is applied in practice, so it remains part of the overall picture.

From what I see here in Greece, access appears to be influenced less by formal regulation alone and more by how riders are perceived by those who live and work in these landscapes — shepherds, farmers, landowners, and local communities. Much of the riding takes place on tracks that are not formally designated rights of way in the UK sense. Continued access seems to depend largely on behaviour, relationships, and not causing disruption.

That is different from the UK, where access is structured through defined rights of way, and from parts of the U.S., where access is often formally managed and enforced by land agencies. In those systems, classification, liability, and enforceable rules tend to carry more weight.

This helps explain why similar technical questions — power, speed, classification — can lead to different outcomes depending on the region.

On the point about increasing motor outputs, there does appear to be a trend towards higher power and higher assistance levels. Whether that is necessary is open to debate, but it does have regulatory implications. If capability moves beyond the scope of existing classifications, some form of regulatory response would seem likely.

At the same time, it is worth keeping proportionality in mind. Off-road E-MTB remains a relatively small segment, and much of the safety data and policy focus originates in urban and mixed-use environments. There is a possibility that measures developed in those contexts could be applied more broadly than intended.

So rather than pointing to a single conclusion, what seems to emerge is a set of interacting factors:

- The importance of clear and well-structured data, with defined methodology
- The role of speed as a key safety variable
- The influence of power through acceleration and control
- The relatively small but growing size of the off-road E-MTB segment
- The variation in access models between regions
- The likelihood that increasing capability will attract regulatory attention

Taken together, it suggests that outcomes are likely to depend on how these factors are balanced, rather than on any single variable in isolation.
 
On the suppose Avinox power - 1.3KW (or 1300W), I can say it isn't too much power.

A simple HONDA NVS50cc 4 stroke scooter, has around 3KW and you really feel sorry for all those Pizza'boys, and their POWERFULL scooters (ahahaha). And those have throotles!

Ebikes, require RIDER imput.
Even if DJI can supply 1300W and have 800% assistance, rider needs to put +160W of power. This sounds low (and it is, by road cycling sport), but most riders, will suffer to sustain 160W for 36min... after which, battery would be dead/drained!


To those that like write about HOW danger is POWER, let's clarify that.

Danger is SPEED.

1- The energy bikes/ebikes have when speeding varies significantly with speed.

2- Every bike or ebike, has the highest speed downhill.
Most just by coasting...
High speed, I mean 50km/h...60km/h, or even 90km/h on some descents.

3- In today's law and rules, Ebikes are restricted to 25km/h // 20mph, so, even power could triple or be 10x more, once reached speed limit, ebike is no more assisted.


Resume:
Danger = Speed
Speed is Limited per Law
Why does anyone need that much power with the speed limits? In the case of DJI and vpn it’s a different story and this is where the problems are going to arise for mountain bikers let alone all the other types of ebike causing chaos. E-bikes exceed the limitations of most riders yet that’s not enough! The emtb is morphing into something else now. Personally I would like to carry on riding my mountain bikes as I do now not be classed as low power moto etc.
It seems many have lost sight of what we do!
 
The emtb is morphing into something else now. Personally I would like to carry on riding my mountain bikes as I do now not be classed as low power moto etc.
This is the key point! We can all debate and disagree whether the evolution to higher and higher power eMTBs is a good or bad thing. Development and evolution has always been a part of the bicycle world and it's created new bike concepts and brought new riders and new skills into the sport. That's a good thing, but it shouldn't be at the expense of losing or compromising the type of electric mountain bicycles that most of us enjoy riding today.
 
Why does anyone need that much power with the speed limits? In the case of DJI and vpn it’s a different story and this is where the problems are going to arise for mountain bikers let alone all the other types of ebike causing chaos. E-bikes exceed the limitations of most riders yet that’s not enough! The emtb is morphing into something else now. Personally I would like to carry on riding my mountain bikes as I do now not be classed as low power moto etc.
It seems many have lost sight of what we do!
It depends on how you use the bike:
1)If you're shuttling up, meaning climbing dual track or even road to the top of the mountain
OR
2)If you're climbing steep technical climbs.

Then there is also, those that are misfortune, and need the power to ride.

I see too much of a big fuzz on the issue, because:

A) Danger is Speed = which is high/very high on DH - to which there is no need for assistance and high speeds can be taken while coasting
B) Power will consume your battery quickly, so it is most probable that it won't be using all the time. The most reasonable use is to detune most used modes, and only use full power on some modes.
C) Trail Access is not invalid by power. Access is granteed advocacy and changing mindsets
D) eMTBs continue to be pesalecs, and you need to push those pedals to move. Between eMTB(Pedalec) and Emoped/eMotorcycles with throotle, there is an entire universe of differences.
 
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It depends on how you use the bike:
1)If you're shuttling up, meaning climbing dual track or even road to the top of the mountain
OR
2)If you're climbing steep technical climbs.

Then there is also, those that are misfortune, and need the power to ride.

I see too much of a big fuzz on the issue, because:

A) Danger is Speed = which is high/very high on DH - to which there is no need for assistance and high speeds can be taken while coasting
B) Power will consume your battery quickly, so it is most probable that it won't be using all the time. The most reasonable use is to detune most used modes, and only use full power on some modes.
C) Trail Access is not invalid by power. Access is granteed advocacy and changing mindsets
D) eMTBs continue to be pesalecs, and you need to push those pedals to move. Between eMTB(Pedalec) and Emoped/eMotorcycles with throotle, there is an entire universe of differences.
Come on these are supposed to be pedal assist bicycles not motorised vehicles. Turning the cranks can give you all the power with little effort if you want to burn the battery.
Anything more than what’s available now is just unnecessary! This is marketing aimed at machismo and it’s working.
 
250w peak would take an average rider to world level fitness. where was all the outrage when we had 500/600w motors?

Speed limits, at least in the EU are what reduces shared trail conflict
 
250w peak would take an average rider to world level fitness. where was all the outrage when we had 500/600w motors?

Speed limits, at least in the EU are what reduces shared trail conflict
There’s an unhealthy tendency nowadays for people to complain about everything, all the time, thanks to the possibility to share their voice with zillion unkown people in the world.

We have thousands of options available, far more than any previous era, and unmatched freedom, more than much of the world still has today. Yet we’re quick to complain about everithing and label any rule as "oppressive".

Even if the limit were something as absolute as the power of the sun or the speed of light, you can be sure people would still find a way to complain about it endlessly.

p.s. I’m sure these two kids (random stock photo taken from the internet) would burst out laughing reading these highly intellectual discussions in this thread about speed and power and whatever.

1774255870348.webp


NOTE: look carefully at the left pedal...
 
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p.s. I’m sure these two kids (random stock photo taken from the internet) would burst out laughing reading these highly intellectual discussions in this thread about speed and power and whatever.

1774255870348.webp

That picture has taken me back 20+ years to when I worked a project to get ex-Royal Mail delivery bicycles (made by Pashley, with massive front racks) to Africa and other developing nations.

The bikes were put to all kinds of uses, deliveries, for district nurses and other key workers. I imagine that they wouldn’t settle for anything less than a 1kW DJI Avinox e-bike now… 😂

IMG_0020.webp


The real power of the bicycle at work in the image above.
 
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