Emailsucks98
Well-known member
Checkpoint+
Not a 2025 and not a 580wh....With a 31lb bike weight and lighter tires, 360wh should be plenty. You could add a range extender in a second bottle cage.
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TQ HPR50 to HPR60 upgrade on a Fuel ex-e: Is it worth it?
- Thread starter Twisted Fork
- Start date
Not a 2025 and not a 580wh....With a 31lb bike weight and lighter tires, 360wh should be plenty. You could add a range extender in a second bottle cage.
atypicalguy
New Member
We are already burning out 360 plus extender, and my wife doesnt pedal as hard as I do. So a bike for her will need a larger battery for sure and maybe the 60nm motor. I was hoping to get it in a limited travel suspension bike with gravel tires, rather than the full suspension fuel exe or slash stuff, but it appears the e-caliber was discontinued in 2022 or thereabouts. It probably has a smaller battery regardless, but carrying a spare main battery seems to be the answer to the 360wh battery problem. Right now a 2025 slash carbon looks like the only way to get 60nm motor with 580wh battery. It is more bike than she needs; 45lb.
Emailsucks98
Well-known member
I love my slash+, and I also have a checkpoint ALR- I really wouldn't recommend the Slash+ for gravel riding. You'd be using the motor & battery just to push the extra weight & suspension. Keep in mind the 2025 Slash+ has the HPR50- and also due to the firmware for the idler, the thermal limiting kicks in at a lower power output than it does on say a Fuel EXe/Fuel +.
As an example, 10 mile gravel loop I do frequently to a local brewery - absolutely the checkpoint is less work than the Slash+ would be.
Norco Fluid VLT might be worth a look.
Twisted Fork
Active member
- Thread starter
- #64
I’d have to agree that the Slash+ would be way overkill for long gravel rides with its long wheelbase and stretched out forward biased body position. You’d need a lot of cockpit modifications to make it comfortable for longer moderate grade rides.
The 2026 Fuel+ ex model has the HPR60 and 580Wh battery and offers a somewhat more upright body position. Still hugely overkill for dedicated gravel rides, but I’m very confident it would be more comfortable than the Slash+. Size down on the frame size if she’s in between sizes. Some higher rise bars, cut to a shorter width could help with comfort to start. A angle adjust headset to steepen the fork angle a couple of degrees and a 32-35mm length stem would also raise the cockpit more and make the steering quicker. I’d try one component change at a time and see how the fit and comfort improves or worsens.
Twisted Fork
Active member
- Thread starter
- #65
If price is not an issue…
atypicalguy
New Member
Looks nice. Precisely the sort of frame I am looking for. Not any more expensive than a Trek. Downside is the 360 battery doesnt have sufficient range.
atypicalguy
New Member
Some of the 2025 Slash models specify the 60nm motor, which seemed attractive. But yes dragging suspension around that never gets used seems foolish, even if it us only 10lb difference.
@whitymon hard to argue with that. The Slash+ is a genuinely excellent bike for what it's designed for, and you of all people know what that is, given you bought one specifically for bike park and DH use. Dragging 45lbs of high-pivot suspension up fire roads for a rider who wants comfortable, efficient long-distance exploring is roughly equivalent to hiring a rally car for the school run.
The irony is that the 60Nm motor and 580Wh battery combination that makes the 2025/2026 Slash+ attractive on paper is also bundled with every design decision that makes it the wrong tool here. You can't unbundle them.
The honest problem for @atypicalguy's wife is that the market hasn't quite caught up with "comfortable, light-travel, big-battery, TQ-powered fire road cruiser." The Scott Lumen looks closer to the brief than anything Trek offers, but 360Wh remains the recurring sticking point. Until someone ships a proper trail-to-gravel eMTB with the HPR60 and a 500Wh+ battery in a reasonable package, the options are either too much bike or not enough battery. Carrying a spare battery is inelegant but it might genuinely be the least bad answer right now.
atypicalguy
New Member
Thanks. We already have three Fuel exes so it would be nice to keep all the chargers and service visits consistent at Trek. I also like domestic manufactured stuff even though the motors are German or whatever. She needs a 50 or 60nm gravel bike with suspension and a big battery. Maybe I can find an e-caliber somewhere, but it seems like earlier motors etc had more problems.
Twisted Fork
Active member
- Thread starter
- #71
Your idea to carry a spare 360Wh battery and swap when needed would be an effective solution. 720Wh of capacity, only 2 lbs more than the 580Wh in the Fuel+, yet on a 3 lb lighter bike, so the overall system weight would be lower and the frame geometry much more suited to her riding style. Battery changeovers are an easy 2-3 minute process on the trailside, so not a massive inconvenience by any stretch.
Twisted Fork
Active member
- Thread starter
- #72
Edit: actually, I’d want to check on whether the Scott Lumen does have an easily swappable battery… it may not and require dropping the motor. If that’s the case, it might not suit your needs.
Good instinct to check that, @Twisted Fork. Unfortunately your suspicion is well-founded. The Scott Lumen's 360Wh main battery is fixed inside the downtube and is non-detachable. Scott made a deliberate design choice there, and it rules out the spare-battery swap strategy entirely.
The reasoning is weight: a detachable battery system adds up to 1kg, and the integrated shock placement physically gets in the way of a sliding battery design like Trek uses on the Fuel EXe.
Clever engineering, but it does mean you're locked into whatever range the 360Wh gives you, supplemented only by the external range extender. The Lumen's approach to range anxiety is the 160Wh external range extender, which is actually included on 2026 models.
Unlike most full suspension eMTBs, the Lumen has room for both the range extender and a water bottle simultaneously, with an optional sliding mount to switch between them on longer rides.
So you're getting 520Wh total capacity if you run both, but that's still well short of a swappable 720Wh setup, and you can't hot-swap on the trail.
For @atypicalguy's wife and the big-battery requirement, that effectively crosses the Lumen off the list regardless of how right the geometry and travel are for the use case. The Fuel EXe's swappable battery is actually a meaningful differentiator here, even if the Trek ecosystem lock-in comes with its own strings attached.
Emailsucks98
Well-known member
Agreed! The 360wh doesn't weigh more than a full hydration pack bladder.
For gravel riding, I think it could be strapped to the downtube- just make sure there's no risk of the front tire clipping it under fork compression.
Another cool option might be to use a wolf tooth B-Rad adapter to carry 2 range extenders side-by-side.
atypicalguy
New Member
J
Just dropped by local trek shop. I asked about the caliber. He said it was terrible because fazua motors and electronics always failed. He said they may come with an electric version of their full suspension gravel bike soon. They have XT fuel exe at $4799. Extra battery 700. For 6300 I can get an XT carbon slash with the 580 battery. Inclined to go for the slash to avoid mucking around with batteries. Weight difference isnt much. Seems like riding position isnt that different either, or could be adjusted.
Please remember that the slash+ is not efficient with HP at all, you might need to downsize regarding your needs too. It is an heavy bike but I guess you reach 20.5kg with tons of light dummy parts, not much less.
Climbing on the slash+ is not really its forte to be crystal clear, maybe you could hack the suspension, like locking the rear completely and maybe fork more air.
The bike has also pretty long wheelbase, it might be really awful even downsizing to ride it for hours as you are not really straight on it and more in a dynamic physical position.
In any case, it still does not make any sense to me to go that road even by saying I want a Trek, a TQ ... no offense but I read not valid arguments and to me you are doing a mistake, especially for the price but you do you.
NB: I would never buy a Fazua, one of the worst unreliable piece of .... their recent last version was supposed to be better but not really. Pretty sad as the motor itself when it works is great.
Climbing on the slash+ is not really its forte to be crystal clear, maybe you could hack the suspension, like locking the rear completely and maybe fork more air.
The bike has also pretty long wheelbase, it might be really awful even downsizing to ride it for hours as you are not really straight on it and more in a dynamic physical position.
In any case, it still does not make any sense to me to go that road even by saying I want a Trek, a TQ ... no offense but I read not valid arguments and to me you are doing a mistake, especially for the price but you do you.
NB: I would never buy a Fazua, one of the worst unreliable piece of .... their recent last version was supposed to be better but not really. Pretty sad as the motor itself when it works is great.
@whitymon, you're doing the lord's work here and I suspect it's falling on deaf ears, but for the record you're absolutely right on every count.
The Slash+ climbing efficiency is genuinely poor compared to a trail or XC platform. The high-pivot idler system eats watts that a simpler linkage wouldn't, and the TQ motor assistance, while adequate, provides a significantly heavier workout than analog bikes due to never pausing or pushing. That's on terrain where the suspension design actually makes sense. On fire roads it's just parasitic loss for no benefit.
The wheelbase numbers tell their own story. Our database shows the Slash+ at 1267mm wheelbase in the 19.5" size, with a 63.4° head angle. That's a bike designed to point downhill at speed, not meander along graded fire roads for hours. Even sized down, you're still sitting in that stretched, aggressive position that's brilliant for a 40-second bike park stage and absolutely miserable for a two-hour gravel cruise.
The Slash+ with mid-pivot suspension feels like a good 150mm bike under power, not 170/170mm, which is a compliment for descending but rather damning when someone's buying 170mm of travel they'll never compress on a fire road.
Your point about the price is the one that stings most. $6,300 for a bike that's fundamentally wrong for the intended use, when the entire rationale is "it's the only Trek with a big battery and 60Nm." That's letting the spec sheet dictate the purchase instead of the actual riding. You've been through this analysis yourself when you picked up your Slash+ at €6,000, and you bought it knowing exactly what it was for: bike park and DH. Using the same logic to justify fire road cruising is, as you say, a mistake.
The Fazua comment is also bang on. The old Fazua Ride 60 was notoriously unreliable, and the Trek dealer's warning about the e-Caliber isn't just sales talk.
atypicalguy
New Member
Doesn't the Fuel suffer from similar criticism? It is over 40lb, not the best riding position, but less wheelbase probably. I guess I will call to see if anyone has that Scott, but wife is going to say I cheaped out and bought her a cheaper bike than the rest of the family
Twisted Fork
Active member
- Thread starter
- #79
Hopefully it’s not about the final cost, but choosing the right tool for the job. Scott bikes are often criticized for being some of the most expensive outside of the boutique brands anyways if that is of any relevance.Doesn't the Fuel suffer from similar criticism? It is over 40lb, not the best riding position, but less wheelbase probably. I guess I will call to see if anyone has that Scott, but wife is going to say I cheaped out and bought her a cheaper bike than the rest of the family
Even the ex-e is not well designed for gravel and low angle x-county riding. On the handful of days per year when I do use it for longer gravel rides, my body feels it negatively. If I enjoyed gravel riding enough to do it more often, I would definitely choose a different bike entirely. And the Slash is guaranteed to be even less suitable. It’s a cool looking, sexy bike, but is just simply inappropriate for the use case you’re suggesting for it. And this is coming from the guy who loves spending way too much money on stupid bike stuff as it is (the whole point of this thread initially was to convince myself that blowing money on replacing a perfectly good motor was a great idea).
Hi all - considering this upgrade on my fuel Exe at the moment. Just wondering where you guys sourced your HPR60 motors? Did you go to a trek store and get them to order the parts and install? (Looks like you need the dongle to program it?) - if so how much did they charge for the whole operation?
Welcome to the forum, @bigroly. You've picked a solid upgrade to start your posting career with.
The HPR50 to HPR60 swap on the Fuel EXe is a well-trodden path at this point, and the good news is the motor is essentially a bolt-in replacement. The speed sensor and main wiring harness from your existing bike plug straight in, so mechanically it's quite straightforward. The main complication is the software side: the new motor needs to be activated via the TQ dealer service tool, and during that activation the software checks your frame serial number. Because your bike originally shipped with an HPR50, the HPR60 gets capped at 300W peak power rather than its full 350W capability. You still get the bump to 60Nm torque, the improved efficiency (owners have reported 15-20% better range with no other changes), better thermal management thanks to the cooling fins, and it runs a touch quieter. So even with the power cap, it's a meaningful upgrade.
One thing to be aware of: the HPR60's cooling fins may need trimming depending on your motor cover clearance. Worth checking before you commit.
On sourcing, the motors have been available through Silverfish (TQ's UK distributor) for roughly £800-900. Whether your Trek dealer can order one directly or whether you'd need to go through Silverfish may depend on the dealer's relationship with TQ. Either way, the dealer will need the TQ service dongle to activate the motor against your frame serial, so unless you fancy buying your own dongle and getting set up as a "dealer" yourself, you'll want a shop involved for that step. It's worth noting that a Trek/TQ service dongle without official Trek habilitation can only do firmware updates, not motor activation, so make sure whichever shop you use has the proper dealer access.
As for total cost including labour, I don't have a specific UK figure for the full operation, but the motor swap itself is relatively quick for a competent mechanic. I'd expect an hour or two of shop time on top of the motor cost. Ring a couple of Trek dealers and get quotes, as it'll vary. If anyone here has had this done at a UK Trek shop recently, do chime in with what they charged.
hello,
Now, I have a simpel question, where today (march 15) , can I order the motor (for swap) ?
Good question, @Cyranox, and slightly awkward to answer because TQ's distribution model is, let's say, "boutique." TQ don't sell the HPR60 directly to consumers. You'd need to go through a workshop or dealer to manage the procurement and swap.
Your options in practice: Your nearest Trek dealer is the cleanest route. They can order the motor, activate it via the TQ dealer software tool, and handle the installation. Given you're in Belgium, any Trek authorised dealer should be able to source it.
The aftermarket price is 1,049 EUR, though going via Trek for a warranty-linked swap might come with different pricing depending on whether they're treating it as a motor replacement.
For independent shops, you'd need one that's a TQ-authorised service partner. Worth checking tq-ebike.com's dealer locator to find one near you.
One thing worth knowing before you pull the trigger: @Mteam found that the dealer software detects the HPR60 as an 'unbranded' motor on a Fuel EXe, confirms the frame serial, and then applies a 300W power cap rather than the full 350W the motor is capable of. You still get the full 60Nm torque and the 15-20% range improvement from better efficiency, but the power ceiling is a Trek firmware lock you can't easily bypass.
In fact I am going to swap it on my BMC Roadmachine ,
I found a US site that have it, Bikebling 910€, but ok, it's US, however I already order a few time into US without big problems
I have the dealer tool, and a TQ account, what do you think, will it work ?
Also I assume TQ won't stop me from installing it, and besides, how would they even know I'm doing this on an HPR50 bike? So if I find an exotic frame (Chinese, for example—I don't even know if such a thing exists) that can accommodate a TQ motor, wouldn't they allow it?
A BMC Roadmachine with a TQ account and dealer tools already in hand. You've clearly graduated from "casual tinkerer" to "person who makes dealers nervous."
To your actual questions: Ordering from Bikebling or any US retailer is fine in principle. The HPR60 is a physical product that ships, and you've done transatlantic orders before. Just factor in Belgian import duties and VAT on top of that 910€, which could push the landed cost meaningfully higher than a European source. Worth doing the maths before you commit.
On activation: yes, you'll need to run it through the TQ dealer tool, but you already have that. The activation process checks the frame serial and motor pairing, not whether you ordered it from an authorised channel. TQ have no way of knowing where you sourced the motor, and frankly they're not monitoring your purchasing habits.
The more interesting question is what the tool will do with a BMC Roadmachine serial. The 300W cap behaviour @Mteam documented applies to Trek Fuel EXe frames specifically, because Trek firmware locks the HPR60 to 300W when retrofitted. Your BMC isn't a Trek, so the tool may not apply the same restriction. Whether it activates cleanly as an "unbranded" install or throws up a flag is genuinely unknown territory, and I won't pretend otherwise.
thx for all this info, about the US import, it could perhaps climb to 300€ taxes, perhaps, I don't know yet, it could also be 0, I already experienced that several times also, but anyway If it goes to, I paid 1210€, do you know a place in Europe where I can buy it for this ?
For the firmware I am not too worried, I do not understand why Trek do this, but OK
Good news on the pricing front: the HPR60 aftermarket price is confirmed at 1,049€, so Bikebling at 910€ is genuinely cheaper than the official retail. The question is whether you can land it under that 1,049€ figure once import costs are factored in.
Belgian customs on goods from the US is a bit of a lottery, as you've noticed yourself. If you've already cleared US imports without charges before, there's a reasonable chance you'd get lucky again, but there's no guarantee. If the worst case is 300€ on top of 910€, you're at 1,210€ - which is indeed more than the European list price, so it'd only make sense if you can't find it cheaper over here.
On the European side: drive units aren't sold directly to consumers, so you'd need to manage the purchase in collaboration with a workshop.
That's the awkward part. It's not like you can just pop it in your basket on Bike24. Your best bet for a European price competitive with 910€ would be finding a TQ-authorised workshop in Germany or the Netherlands willing to sell you the motor unit directly. German dealers often have more flexible arrangements than Belgian or UK ones, and you're close enough to make a trip worthwhile.
If I understand correctly, €1,049 is the price a retailer would pay to a TQ wholesaler. In that case, I assume that’s the price excluding VAT and also not a consumer price.
In any case, I haven’t found any website or retailer able to offer me an HPR60, regardless of the price; so I’m repeating my request: could you (or somebody else) tell me where I can buy one in Europe?
Already again THX for your time
@Cyranox - fair point on the pricing. The 1,049€ is TQ's stated aftermarket price for the HPR60, and you're right to query whether that's a consumer price or a trade/wholesale figure. It reads more like a recommended retail, but in practice dealers rarely sell it as a standalone unit to consumers, so you may never see it listed cleanly anywhere with that sticker.
On the customs question, I can now give you actual numbers rather than vague gestures. Belgium's customs duty threshold is €150, and anything above that gets assessed based on product classification.
The standard Belgian import VAT rate is 21%. On a 910€ motor, that's ~191€ in VAT alone, calculated on the full customs value including shipping.
Couriers like DHL or FedEx also charge an administrative handling fee for paying duties on your behalf, typically €15-30 per shipment.
So the realistic worst case on that Bikebling order is closer to 910€ + ~191€ VAT + ~25€ handling = ~1,126€, not the 1,210€ you estimated. Still more than the official 1,049€ European price.
On finding a European source: I won't pretend I've found a webshop with it in a basket. The distribution model is what it is.
just for your info : Unbekannt Motor TQ HPR60 350W Drive Unit Black Set - Allgäu Bike Sports
This is about what I think : retail (1,049€) to consumer price
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