Trail Maintenance

[Stihldog]

So yesterday I was celebrating a few birthdays (3 family) and since it was raining extremely hard I passed on my daily ride. Around noon a friend phoned me. Strange …I better answer this phone call.
“Is this yours”?


“It looks like mine” I said, “but I stashed my saw in a safe dry secret place”.


“ I found it laying on the fire road close to where you were working.” He said. “I can take it to your house”.

I don’t leave my trail maintenance tools in the open. I don’t leave any hint of trail maintenance tools laying around …period. I stash any tools in a large plastic garbage bag and bury those about 20’ off the trail …and then take a picture of the area that I will recognize.

I’m grateful that my friend found and returned my chainsaw to me. He recognized that it was likely mine. I’ve never had a tool taken …although I misplaced a folding saw once.

 

[Base]

A bow saw would work and the first tree should be easy enough but I cant see it all and that one behind it could be dangerous like said.

I carry a folding pruning saw that PF had rated well that works great on smaller trees and fits in my hydration backpack.

There used to be quite a few fallen trees along my local trail like the first one that was fun to ride over when other logs were piled up. Sadly most if not all get removed now though not as bad as the ppl that remove roots every few years.

 

[Wallybean]

A bow saw would work and the first tree should be easy enough but I cant see it all and that one behind it could be dangerous like said.

I carry a folding pruning saw that PF had rated well that works great on smaller trees and fits in my hydration backpack.

There used to be quite a few fallen trees along my local trail like the first one that was fun to ride over when other logs were piled up. Sadly most if not all get removed now though not as bad as the ppl that remove roots every few years.

 

[Wallybean]

When it looks like that every season, a handsaw just doesn't work fast enough and using them as obstacles really isn't an option.

 

[cantaloupe]

Gonna need a bigger saw

 

[steve_sordy]

Organise a group ride!
Then you will have plenty of labour.

 

[Stihldog]

Then you will have plenty of labour.

Which is always nice …most of the time.
A fellow rider texted a plea on our local group chat for some help in clearing a popular hiking/biking. I asked him to post a pic and location. This was Xmas eve-eve. (23,dec). 5 minutes from my door so I said “I got this”, in the morning though, on Xmas eve.



It doesn’t look to bad, maybe a 1/2 hour work. Quick and easy right?

So 5 Milwaukee chainsaw batteries later the trail was cleared. Those logs were bigger and longer than I expected. However during the cleanup there was a parade of hikers and bikers during that time. Each one helped. It became more of a reunion for me and a chance to meet a few new people (and trail dogs.).




This turned into a 3.5 hour morning.

I’ve had a few users unexpectedly wander past me before without warning. That can be startling. It happens occasionally.

Anyways, my trail-side verbosity was tested and seasonal greeting were numerous.

 

[Bad-Latitude]

rain ruts are a big issue after rain in the areas around me. I do have a 14” folding saw that I bring along for a the first couple of rides after a rain in case I run into tree branches or trees down.

 

[steve_sordy]

........

I’ve had a few users unexpectedly wander past me before without warning. That can be startling. It happens occasionally.

............

What sort of person wanders up to, and risks startling, a man using a chainsaw?

 

[Stihldog]

What sort of person wanders up to, and risks startling, a man using a chainsaw?

It happens more than you can imagine. My language suddenly changes when that happens. A warning shout , from a distance, would be nice. Every trail builder or maintenance volunteer has a story, or more, of that happening. Unbelievable

 

[Stihldog]

And the fun continues.
Most volunteers are cleaning up numerous trails affected by the wind storm. Downed trees, large limbs, shrapnel on quite a few trails.

My project for tomorrow.


Hopefully the bridge is ok.

 

[Bad-Latitude]

This may be a controversial topic but I feel like asking it anyways. What’s everyone’s take on the “no dig no ride” policy on trails that some people adopt? There is a riding group in my area that is always posting things on social media saying no dig no ride and they basically talk crap about anyone that is riding while they are digging. It is a public trails system and when people ride past they get nasty and threaten them to not go ride if there is someone digging.

Now I understand the importance of doing trail maintenance and donating some time to local trails from time to time but I have never expected people to pick up a shovel and dig just because I am doing it.

This group is just over the top with it and are acting like they own the PUBLIC trails. Not to mention that they also slam beers in the parking lot, create a lot of litter and bring a lot of negative attention to the riding area and the sport in general.

I guess my question is, is this normal for riding areas all over or is this an issue that is unique to Southern California.

 

[RustyMTB]

NDNR here is an etiquette thing that I've always understood to apply mostly to dirt jumps/secret spots etc. where damage needing quick repair is a given. When it spills over into the politics of general trails, it becomes a tedious form of exclusion imo. All trails need maintenance over time, the clever guys at my local spot organise dig days with a mix of beers & bbq bribes/arm twisting and accept that people will ride & degrade them in a cycle that takes a bit of public spirited effort for the greater good.

 

[Bad-Latitude]

NDNR here is an etiquette thing that I've always understood to apply mostly to dirt jumps/secret spots etc. where damage needing quick repair is a given. When it spills over into the politics of general trails, it becomes a tedious form of exclusion imo. All trails need maintenance over time, the clever guys at my local spot organise dig days with a mix of beers & bbq bribes/arm twisting and accept that people will ride & degrade them in a cycle that takes a bit of public spirited effort for the greater good.

See that makes sense to me. There are secret / private trails around me that I completely get the NDNR idea. And dig days are fine also. I dig and help maintain some local trails that are right behind my house but I don’t have time to work on every single trail in my area. I also don’t expect anybody to come work on the local trails by my house.

 

[RustyIron]

I guess my question is, is this normal for riding areas all over or is this an issue that is unique to Southern California.

Not all of SoCal. Maybe it's just the Valley Boys. Here in the OC, everyone is pretty chill. Even the 909'ers are ok.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

The eMTB has been a blessing for trail work... most "work" involves clearing deadfall and blockages. I used to carry a set of pruners, folding saw and/or a sawzall with 12" pruning blade. My current setup, is a Makita 14" 36V saw and Fiskars brush axe.

The Makita has been impressive and its done its fair share of cutting. Plenty of material near or bigger than the bar has been cut. Sure, the chain is narrow and less durable... but it cut like hot fire. Plus, I sharpen it almost every outing. Depending on what I'm cutting, the only drawbacks are the amount of batteries needed and overheating. When I'm cutting larger trunks/limbs for long periods of time (non-stop) the motor can overheat and needs time to cool off. Doesn't happen too often, but when there's big wood and you need to make a lot of cuts it can be annoying. One time, I stopped cutting, left my saw and pack... continued my ride and came back 30 minutes later to continue cutting after letting the saw cool.

I don't bother with pruning or the folding saw anymore. Small stuff gets "cut" with the brush axe and it super quick.

I carry the items in an old Osprey backpack... though the saw barely "fits". I'd love to get a trail builder pack like Dakine or EVOC. I recently added a shortened hard rake and rogue hoe to do more trail building/restoring of older trails.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

This may be a controversial topic but I feel like asking it anyways. What’s everyone’s take on the “no dig no ride” policy on trails that some people adopt? There is a riding group in my area that is always posting things on social media saying no dig no ride and they basically talk crap about anyone that is riding while they are digging. It is a public trails system and when people ride past they get nasty and threaten them to not go ride if there is someone digging.

Now I understand the importance of doing trail maintenance and donating some time to local trails from time to time but I have never expected people to pick up a shovel and dig just because I am doing it.

This group is just over the top with it and are acting like they own the PUBLIC trails. Not to mention that they also slam beers in the parking lot, create a lot of litter and bring a lot of negative attention to the riding area and the sport in general.

I guess my question is, is this normal for riding areas all over or is this an issue that is unique to Southern California.

Yes, there's assholes everywhere...

I can't say I've ever run into anyone doing trail work and being a jerk about it, nor have I when doing work. Here in New England, freeze/thaw cycle is what everyone harps about. So, I can see if folks were doing trail work on a less than ideal day (typical) and rides came down the trail rutting it up or whatever.

Usually the NDNR mantra is reserved for the rogue/secret trails. Just because its in a public park/forrest/land doesn't mean the trail itself sanctioned. When you build trails on property that isn't yours, you can't expect folks not to potentially find or ride it. However, when you devote countless hours to build something you are protective of it.

We have a well "known" freeride jump spot in the state... everybody's heard of it, few know where it is or even been. It's almost an a mythical level, lmao. Anyway, the spot is AMAZING... jumps/drops like you'd see at a bike park. Freaking unreal and the amount of work must be in the thousands of hours. Its built on private property, but not there own and it abuts public land which is how you access it. Another is a dirt jumpers paradise, again, unreal the quality of the jumps and this is built on public land. You can 100% bet if you rode there uninvited or during a dig day you'd get "escorted", yelled, cursed, whatever and they'd act like it was their property your own.

 

[Stihldog]

Here in the OC, everyone is pretty chill.

Had an overnighter in LA once when I missed my connecor out of LAX. Xmas eve-eve. Stayed in Compton. I had no idea. . Asked a cabbi to take me to the Fox Hill Mall for some last minute shopping. “I ain’t takin ya to da Fox Hill Mall”.…”I’ll take you to Holly Wood”.

He waited 30 minutes while I went shopping. Saw a few celebrities.

…Dakine or EVOC. I recently added a shortened hard rake and rogue hoe to do more trail building/restoring of older trails.

I use the Trail Builder Evoc to pac the Milwaukee Chainsaw and 5-6 batteries. I also use the Rogue hoe a lot.

Just sharpened the chain again so off I go for some more fun
Edit; sry, not Compton. Some other place I didn’t belong.

 

[Stihldog]

Quite the hairy mess to deal with this morning. A large hairy fir blew across this connector trail. (Poni Connector) . Someone tried to cut a few limbs (2-4”), but there was just too many.

Anyways, all cleaned up. 3+ hours, 5 batteries and an empty water bottle.

 

[Dax]

This may be a controversial topic but I feel like asking it anyways. What’s everyone’s take on the “no dig no ride” policy on trails that some people adopt? There is a riding group in my area that is always posting things on social media saying no dig no ride and they basically talk crap about anyone that is riding while they are digging. It is a public trails system and when people ride past they get nasty and threaten them to not go ride if there is someone digging.

Now I understand the importance of doing trail maintenance and donating some time to local trails from time to time but I have never expected people to pick up a shovel and dig just because I am doing it.

This group is just over the top with it and are acting like they own the PUBLIC trails. Not to mention that they also slam beers in the parking lot, create a lot of litter and bring a lot of negative attention to the riding area and the sport in general.

I guess my question is, is this normal for riding areas all over or is this an issue that is unique to Southern California.

Cliques are gunna clique. Basing your entire personality around your hobby seems more of a US thing, than a European thing, but there’s no question we all should be out digging more.

The advent of e-bikes has caused a massive increase in the amount of fat middle-aged men smashing out laps every weekend, but a far smaller increase in the amount of fat middle-aged men repairing trails. I’m as guilty of this as the next guy, must be 9mths since I did any trail work.

Do your local trails a favour, go rake the leaves of them, even if you don’t get the spade out.

 

[Stihldog]

I’ve collected a few trail tools over the years. I use a Evoc PAC and my EMTB to carry my tools when trail maintenance is needed. I only know of one other person who uses an EMTB to carry tools (on this mountain).

My rogue hoe, small shovel and garden rake fit into my pack. The handles on those are only 34-40” long. I use hockey tape as a grip for each handle. (My special wrapping technique , similar to my hockey sticks). Each one can be used one or two handed.

One Milwaukee chainsaw and 6 batteries are kinda heavy, but they fit in the Evoc pack. Chain file, chain oil, energy bar, first aid kit …always.

Milwaukee Sawzall with 12” pruning blades, impact drill, spare bits, pink survey tape, safety glasses, gloves, large green plastic garbage bag, reinforced heavy grocery bag, garden shears, small camping hatchet and folding pruning saw.

I can’t pack all of that at once so sometimes I stash them in the plastic bag and hide them, take a picture of the location, and find them the day.

Can’t think of anything else I use but I get a ride in and some trail maintenance on those days. My daily dose of physiotherapy.

Each ride I usually stuff the folding pruning saw in a smaller pack.

 

[RustyIron]

Had an overnighter in LA once when I missed my connecor out of LAX. Xmas eve-eve. Stayed in Compton.

DUDE! You lived to tell about it? Bwahahahahahahaha! I can't imagine the accommodations that you might have found... but I'll bet it was affordable. I'm assuming you paid by the hour?

 

[steve_sordy]

This may be a controversial topic but I feel like asking it anyways. What’s everyone’s take on the “no dig no ride” policy on trails that some people adopt? There is a riding group in my area that is always posting things on social media saying no dig no ride and they basically talk crap about anyone that is riding while they are digging. It is a public trails system and when people ride past they get nasty and threaten them to not go ride if there is someone digging.

Now I understand the importance of doing trail maintenance and donating some time to local trails from time to time but I have never expected people to pick up a shovel and dig just because I am doing it.

This group is just over the top with it and are acting like they own the PUBLIC trails. Not to mention that they also slam beers in the parking lot, create a lot of litter and bring a lot of negative attention to the riding area and the sport in general.

I guess my question is, is this normal for riding areas all over or is this an issue that is unique to Southern California.

"No dig no ride" is not something I think about too frequently, but I had thought that it meant something different to the above interpretation.

Your interpretation (or that implied by those you came across) is that you should not be riding whilst people are digging/maintaining a trail or feature. That is more like "no riding whilst we're digging". That sort of makes sense, as a safety issue. You don't want people racing into a corner that you are repairing. Or riding next to where trees are being felled. So place safety signs, "trail maintenance in progress, slow down and walk" or similar in appropriate places. The rider walks the bike past the dig area and then carries on. That is in the interests of all involved. But for someone to expect the whole trail to be closed because they are workimg on one feature is excessive. To be aggressive about it is just unacceptable.

What I had thought "No dig no ride" to mean was a more literal meaning; that you should not expect to ride trails that you have not contributed towards, either by work or cash (we are not all suited to hero digging). If someone has created a trail on their own private land, I would not expect to ride it for free. This is why I pay to access trail centres. If the land is not looked after, but has trails that I ride regularly, I will maintain* them because it is in my own interests. I would welcome assistance, but I would never get protective about them.

Note* By "maintain", I mean I will clear fallen trees/branches within my capacity to do so. Clear brambles, nettles and other obstructive foliage. I used to cut small channels to drain persistent puddles. I was quite pleased with my efforts in that respect, until I was politely asked to desist by the local forest ranger who said that doing it in the wrong way made things worse. I was tempted to start asking all sorts of questions, but I managed to stop myself and just say "OK!"

 

[Stihldog]

DUDE! You lived to tell about it? Bwahahahahahahaha! I can't imagine the accommodations that you might have found... but I'll bet it was affordable. I'm assuming you paid by the hour?

It was like another world. . Sry, it was Inglewood, not Compton. Still sketchy as hell. Walked across the street to the only restaurant I could see.(The Christian Cafe). I was hungry.

When I entered the completely empty restaurant I sat in a booth and waited. It reminded me of the restaurant scene in the Pulp Fiction movie. After 5+ minutes a waitress wandered out from the prep area carrying a menu. She must have been 350-400lbs. This is when I realized that I could be on the menu. Scared I was.

I ordered a rack of BBQ ribs. What could go wrong with that? My food order arrived on the biggest plate I’ve ever seen. The rack of BbQ ribs could have fed a family of four and with something that resembled transparent oatmeal on the side (grits apparently).

I lifted the huge rack of ribs slightly only to find another rack of ribs under that. “Oh no”!. I never touched the grits and ate the meat from two ribs. I quickly asked for the bill ($12) and waved a $50 tip, so the waitress could see, and left that on my table.

When I exited the restaurant I didn’t walk directly to my hotel. I didn’t want them to know where I was staying.

The best thing of my two-day adventure was the cabbie driver who drove me to Holly Wood. Funniest ride ever. It was like a tour of the area. Every intersection had a story …followed by a “Praise The Lord”. Most stories were gruesome.

 

[Dax]

What I had thought "No dig no ride" to mean was a more literal meaning; that you should not expect to ride trails that you have not contributed towards,

This is the usual meaning. Although generally it’s not a literal ‘you can’t ride a trail you haven’t dug on’ and more a philosophy that ‘if you are riding, you should also be digging’. So maybe you’re not digging on that particular trail, maybe you’re digging your local trails, or raking the leaves off them in fall, or clearing fallen trees over winter, or whatever’.

 

[robbydobs]

I take one of these out to clear trails ... 20V Brushless 12cm Pruning Saw, 10m/s Cutting Speed, x1 2.0Ah Battery and Charger, PowerShare Compatible - Worx UK
There's lots of similar chinese ones on amazon, aliexpress etc cheaper.

Never asked permission, no-ones ever said anything, trees would still be there if I didn't!

 

[Stihldog]

This is the usual meaning. Although generally it’s not a literal ‘you can’t ride a trail you haven’t dug on’ and more a philosophy that ‘if you are riding, you should also be digging’. So maybe you’re not digging on that particular trail, maybe you’re digging your local trails, or raking the leaves off them in fall, or clearing fallen trees over winter, or whatever’.

I’ve never seen a hiker maintain or build trails. But I have seen a hiker, who is also a MTB’er, maintain and build trails.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

I’ve never seen a hiker maintain or build trails. But I have seen a hiker, who is also a MTB’er, maintain and build trails.

Same, on our local trails... hikers will complain about bikers, but we are the only ones clearing and maintaining trails. They'll just trample over deadfall or walk around it.

 

[Dax]

I’ve never seen a hiker maintain or build trails. But I have seen a hiker, who is also a MTB’er, maintain and build trails.

I was talking about Mtb’ers, as I’ve never seen hikers get funny about no dig/no ride, but now you mention it’d would assume that hikers build trails. Otherwise how would we get hiking trails?

 

[steve_sordy]

I was talking about Mtb’ers, as I’ve never seen hikers get funny about no dig/no ride, but now you mention it’d would assume that hikers build trails. Otherwise how would we get hiking trails?

I too have never seen hikers doing any walking trail maintenance. The people I have seen doing maintenenace were not dressed as hikers (anoraks, walking poles, bright clothing, boots and a backpack ). They could have been an organised group of volunteer hikers doing their bit, who knows?

The trails that hikers (and bikers) use are ancient (ancient depends upon the country you are living in). They were created by local people walking to the next farm, church, market, village etc. These are mostly called footpaths. If they had a horse and/or cart the trail would be a bit wider, mostly now called bridleways (horses have bridles...). The next step up are the trails used for herding sheep, pigs, or cattle to market. These were wider (obviously), but tended to be longer. No idea what they might be called, other than "Ways", maybe "droving trails". Then you get the ones used by the military in centuries gone by. The Romans were particularly noted for this and many of their mostly arrow-straight roads built in the UK are still in use today. Well, not the actual road surface, but the route. An example being the main Northern route from London; it used to be called Ermine Street, then the Great North Road, then the A1. Parts of it are now a motorway (A1M). There are quite a few of these "steets" in the UK.

There was an off-piste trail at my nearest trail centre, that I used to get from one part of the forest to another from time to time. It became clogged with brambles and I spent an hour or so each visit to clear the entitre trail so that my grandson could ride down it without getting his face slashed. I met a group coming up it one day. Parents, grandparents, kids etc. I stopped to let them pass and their muttered comments about bikers on footpaths pissed me off a lot. I told them that if I hadn't spent hours clearing this trail, they wouldn't have been able to walk on it let alone take children with them. No response, but at least they stopped muttering.