The SL bike is dead. Long live the SL bike!

nickf

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I am copying below the post I recently made to the Gen 2 Fuel+ thread as a stimulus for polite, non-partisan comment and discussion about the future of SL bikes. I recall several commentators saying not so long ago that there was no demand for mid power bikes, and that the SL concept was now redundant with the launch of more full fat bikes that weigh-in not far in excess of the 20kg mark.

I recognise that full fat bikes will probably always be the first choice for heavier riders, or for those who just want to blast up steep stuff fast. But my introduction to the Fuel+ (other SL bikes are available :)) was enough to convince me that mid power bikes can offer a genuinely different but equally enjoyable riding experience.

Coincidentally, Suns_PSD has just posted this comprehensive test review of 11 eMTB motors. Thanks to him for this.

What’s the Best E-Bike Motor of 2026? 11 E-Bike Motors in a Full-On Showdown.

While everyone else is talking about peak power, we’re looking at what really matters: 11 E-Bike motors in a full-on showdown.
ebike-mtb.com
ebike-mtb.com

So here's my Fuel+ thread post to get the ball rolling.....

I've been riding my 2022 Trek Rail for the last three years and modifying it along the way to the point where I think it rides really well. But the release of the new Bosch Gen 5 motor and the launch of a whole bunch of great new bikes from various brands has led to me to test ride a few new full fat and one SL bikes over the last year or so to see if maybe I might be missing out on something even better (Santa Cruz Vala, Heckler SL, Mondraker Crafty, Amflow, Moustache,...). Yeah they were all fantastic bikes, and the Gen 5 and Avinox motors deliver impressive performance. But did any of them genuinely merit shelling out a shed load of more cash to be worth moving on from my trusty Rail? I personally felt than none of them rode so much better or that the new motor performances gave me more enjoyment than I can achieve with my old 85Nm Gen 4 Bosch. Of course, YMMV.

Then this weekend I test rode the Trek Fuel+ MX for 70km and 1800m+ over the two days.

I was hoping this experience would finally satisfy my curiosity with the mid power motor options, and I could return the test bike to the shop knowing that these motors (or at least the TQ60) could not give me enough assistance for my 67 year old legs to get me up my local steep, rocky and often very technical climbs.

The result.... I was absolutely blown away by this bike!

The motor is 99% totally silent and it was a real joy to hear nothing but the crunch of my tyres over the ground and, although I rode at a slower pace than with the Rail, the ride experience was "purer" and I felt more in touch with the trail. On the Sunday ride I took it up some of our steepest local trails with some challenging technical elements, and to my great surprise the motor power was entirely sufficient except in a few of the most tricky and steep sections where I finally lost control or traction and had to get off and push it past the obstacles.

I thought I would need to constantly ride in High mode to get the support I required, but in fact I found Med mode was adequate for much of the time. The power delivery is so silent, subtle and natural that I often had to check the display to confirm that the motor was still working!

Regarding the bike itself, it is so (comparably) light and nimble that it accelerates breathtakingly fast under gravity. It handles brilliantly and is both stable when needed and playful when asked. I had an absolute blast on it over the weekend and when I returned it to the shop it only took me a few minutes to decide to buy it on the spot! (Which is something I never do!)

So, is it a "better" bike than my old Rail? I wouldn't say that, but it is a bike that gives a genuinely different but equally thrilling ride experience. Maybe not quite as capable in the extremes, so I might still choose the Rail for enduro rides, but it is ideal for a less aggressive day out when the purity and pleasure of the ride is more important than the speed and adrenaline rush (although I got that too!).

I was so impressed with this bike and this motor system that I wanted to share my experience here so that anyone else who is "SL curious" but wonders if they could live without full fat power might be tempted to give it a try.
 
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How old are you?

How tall are you?

How much do you weigh?

Do you have any health issues?

What other sports (if any) did you or do you participate in?

What typical terrain were you riding?

How many km did you ride?
 
How old are you? I am the same age as my 67 year old legs 😉

How tall are you? I'm 175cm or 5'9". Why do you ask? Does height matter?

How much do you weigh? Good question. I'm 70kg naked, 75-77kg with riding kit and backpack.

Do you have any health issues? I have 2 stents in my heart and suffer from chest pains whenever I do even brief physical activity that requires some exertion. Whenever I ride my Rail I have to do at least 45mins of gentle, progressive warm up riding on flat ground before I start putting in effort, otherwise the angina pains soon start up and I have to stop and inhale a puff of a medication which opens up the arteries. I've now only taken the Fuel+ on 4 rides, but to my great surprise I didn't suffer the usual signs of angina pain onset on any of the rides. I can't explain that because in theory I should have been putting in more effort than on my Rail, but maybe it was due to riding a tad slower?

What other sports (if any) did you or do you participate in? Over the years, rugby, hang gliding, martial arts, rock climbing, yoga, road cycling, MTB... I would call myself super fit up until I needed to have the stents fitted, but since then my physical performance is probably only average. Hence the purchase of my Rail 3 years ago.

What typical terrain were you riding? I live in a semi-mountainous area of France with local hills around 1000-1400m tall. No bike-specific trails here, just steep, loose rocky, technical tracks.

How many km did you ride? Only four rides so far. I will give the stats including battery usage so you can see how efficient the TQ60 motor is. (I should add that the 580Wh battery is a game changer for autonomy compared to the small batteries in the original Fuel Exe or Specialized Levo SL. The Fazua motor has a 430Wh battery, but the promised range extender is finally not coming.)

Sat pm: 27.8km and 545m+ ascent with 60% battery usage on mix of mid/hi mode.

Sun am: 18km and 620m+ with 39% battery usage and mostly in mid mode.

Sun pm: 23.8km and 625m+ with 58% battery usage, all in hi mode.

Weds pm: 36.4km and 620m+ with 60% battery usage, mix of eco/mid/hi modes

And by simply extrapolating these figures to estimate the autonomy with a full 100% battery usage we get.... and if we add the 160Wh range extender....

46.3km and 908m (mid/hi) - w/range extender - 59km and 1153m

46.2km and 1590m (mid) - 59km and 2019m

41km and 1078m (hi) - 52km and 1370m

61km and 1033m (eco/mid/hi) - 78km and 1318m

Obviously the variation in these data reflects the different demands on the motor from the gradient and technical difficulty of the terrain on each ride. But the data do give an idea of what range is possible with this system.
 
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Great posts.

I'm almost certainly going to get a new Full power e-bike, but I don't really need it for my terrain and fitness level.

The HP60 with it's non-noise, natural assistance, hidden looks & high efficiency are very appealing, and I looked at it long and hard.

What stopped me was that it's very hot where I live for several months of the year and although the steeps are short, they are quite steep and as I result my Fazua 60 stays in the 'turbo' mode which is 350 watts and I often desire more. If the HP 60 offered 450 watts, I'd buy it. I'd use 250 on flatter terrain, 350 on Enduro terrain in the winter, and 450w in our summers on the most technical terrain.
 
Great posts.

I'm almost certainly going to get a new Full power e-bike, but I don't really need it for my terrain and fitness level.

The HP60 with it's non-noise, natural assistance, hidden looks & high efficiency are very appealing, and I looked at it long and hard.

What stopped me was that it's very hot where I live for several months of the year and although the steeps are short, they are quite steep and as I result my Fazua 60 stays in the 'turbo' mode which is 350 watts and I often desire more. If the HP 60 offered 450 watts, I'd buy it. I'd use 250 on flatter terrain, 350 on Enduro terrain in the winter, and 450w in our summers on the most technical terrain.
Thanks for your useful feedback. This thread isn't intended to be about the Fuel+ specifically, so it's interesting that your Fazua powered bike works well enough for you with your terrain and conditions.
 
How old are you? I am the same age as my 67 year old legs 😉

How tall are you? I'm 175cm or 5'9". Why do you ask? Does height matter?

How much do you weigh? Good question. I'm 70kg naked, 75-77kg with riding kit and backpack.

Do you have any health issues? I have 2 stents in my heart and suffer from chest pains whenever I do even brief physical activity that requires some exertion. Whenever I ride my Rail I have to do at least 45mins of gentle, progressive warm up riding on flat ground before I start putting in effort, otherwise the angina pains soon start up and I have to stop and inhale a puff of a medication which opens up the arteries. I've now only taken the Fuel+ on 4 rides, but to my great surprise I didn't suffer the usual signs of angina pain onset on any of the rides. I can't explain that because in theory I should have been putting in more effort than on my Rail, but maybe it was due to riding a tad slower?

What other sports (if any) did you or do you participate in? Over the years, rugby, hang gliding, martial arts, rock climbing, yoga, road cycling, MTB... I would call myself super fit up until I needed to have the stents fitted, but since then my physical performance is probably only average. Hence the purchase of my Rail 3 years ago.

What typical terrain were you riding? I live in a semi-mountainous area of France with local hills around 1000-1400m tall. No bike-specific trails here, just steep, loose rocky, technical tracks.

How many km did you ride? Only four rides so far. I will give the stats including battery usage so you can see how efficient the TQ60 motor is. (I should add that the 580Wh battery is a game changer for autonomy compared to the small batteries in the original Fuel Exe or Specialized Levo SL. The Fazua motor has a 430Wh battery, but the promised range extender is finally not coming.)

Sat pm: 27.8km and 545m+ ascent with 60% battery usage on mix of mid/hi mode.

Sun am: 18km and 620m+ with 39% battery usage and mostly in mid mode.

Sun pm: 23.8km and 625m+ with 58% battery usage, all in hi mode.

Weds pm: 36.4km and 620m+ with 60% battery usage, mix of eco/mid/hi modes

And by simply extrapolating these figures to estimate the autonomy with a full 100% battery usage we get.... and if we add the 160Wh range extender....

46.3km and 908m (mid/hi) - w/range extender - 59km and 1153m

46.2km and 1590m (mid) - 59km and 2019m

41km and 1078m (hi) - 52km and 1370m

61km and 1033m (eco/mid/hi) - 78km and 1318m

Obviously the variation in these data reflects the different demands on the motor from the gradient and technical difficulty of the terrain on each ride. But the data do give an idea of what range is possible with this system.
None of that ^^^ is consistent with:

nickf said:
Whenever I ride my Rail I have to do at least 45mins of gentle, progressive warm up riding on flat ground before I start putting in effort, otherwise the angina pains soon start up and I have to stop and inhale a puff of a medication which opens up the arteries. I've now only taken the Fuel+ on 4 rides, but to my great surprise I didn't suffer the usual signs of angina pain onset on any of the rides.

If true then something else must be going on.
 
@nickf : thanks for starting this thread and posting the link to the motor comparisons article.

As someone looking at SL ebikes currently, I read bits of the article but was left wanting a more full review of some of the lightweight, mid- to full-power systems.

They gave the Editor's Choice Award to the Maxon Air S motor. This does indeed look promising (see Leo Kokkenen's YT videos). However, other than a handful of smaller manufacturers (possibly including Pole), do we know of any of the bigger firms adopting this motor for releases next year?

The article also seemed to suggest that the Fazua motor has been refined and is more reliable. ("After early teething problems, the FAZUA Ride 60 has finally become a reliable system – and recent updates have brought noticeable improvements to its ride characteristics. The new Mode Control is another step forward, delivering clearer and more intuitive operation.")

Do we know how true this is?
 
Based on what I know about the Maxon, man if they combined that with around a 550w semi-solid state battery pack it would be the class leader. But then you've got to get it in the right frame as well.
 
The article also seemed to suggest that the Fazua motor has been refined and is more reliable.

Do we know how true this is?
I don't think we do, and that's disappointing.

Regarding the availability of bikes with the new Maxon motor, I think we have to give the bike brands time to inspect, test, select, and adapt new motors into their frame production. We live in a time where we expect everything to happen overnight! Maybe we'll be talking a lot about the Maxon next year, or maybe we won't. In a way, that's the question underlying this thread.
 
The main issue for me is that I would still want a full fat bike too and at nearly 10k a pop that isn't going to happen.
 
The main issue for me is that I would still want a full fat bike too and at nearly 10k a pop that isn't going to happen.
I'm sure your viewpoint is shared by very many others. I now have both, and I'm not sure how that sits with me as I'm not used to the "luxury" or the "torment" of having to decide which bike I'm going to take out for a ride.

But I suppose the real question is why would you prefer a full fat bike over the "SL" bike?

Not you specifically, but my guess is that very many riders don't actually need all that power for their rides. And my experience with the Fuel+ is that the extra power doesn't come without compromises, particularly with the silence and "purity" of the ride.
 
I guess the question for me what's the advantage of having a SL over a full fat? I've got a Vala and it's just over a kilo heaver than the Fuel Ex and is pretty much silent.

I live in the Peaks and it's all hills, climbs on the Vala are great fun.

Not knocking the SL bikes at all and I spent ages agonising over the Vala or the Heckler SL.
 
I am copying below the post I recently made to the Gen 2 Fuel+ thread as a stimulus for polite, non-partisan comment and discussion about the future of SL bikes. I recall several commentators saying not so long ago that there was no demand for mid power bikes, and that the SL concept was now redundant with the launch of more full fat bikes that weigh-in not far in excess of the 20kg mark.

I recognise that full fat bikes will probably always be the first choice for heavier riders, or for those who just want to blast up steep stuff fast. But my introduction to the Fuel+ (other SL bikes are available :)) was enough to convince me that mid power bikes can offer a genuinely different but equally enjoyable riding experience.

Coincidentally, Suns_PSD has just posted this comprehensive test review of 11 eMTB motors. Thanks to him for this.

What’s the Best E-Bike Motor of 2026? 11 E-Bike Motors in a Full-On Showdown.

While everyone else is talking about peak power, we’re looking at what really matters: 11 E-Bike motors in a full-on showdown.
ebike-mtb.com
ebike-mtb.com
Paywalls SUCK
 
It’s all down to personal preference really, where and how you ride, and not least your own physical condition.

An e-bike for me just needs enough assistance to help with hills and/or that end of ride road section headwind.

I’ve no interest in getting up a fell or mountain as quickly as possible, and do prefer the lighter bike on the way back down. My 1st Gen Levo SL has only 35Nm but it gets up everything I need it to and at 17kg is a very different ride than my other 21kg+ e-bikes.

Maybe it will change as I age, but if I could only have one bike it would probably be the SL, but other people have different priorities and ideas of what an e-bike should be.

That’s why they are so many different e-bikes really isn’t it, we don’t all want, need or buy the same thing.
 
SL vs full is mostly physics.
On climbs, a 100 kg rider needs ~40 % more energy than a 70 kg rider at the same speed (e.g. ~700 W vs ~500 W total). Full-power compensates for mass; SL works best for lighter riders and gentler terrain.
 
SL vs full is mostly physics.
On climbs, a 100 kg rider needs ~40 % more energy than a 70 kg rider at the same speed (e.g. ~700 W vs ~500 W total). Full-power compensates for mass; SL works best for lighter riders and gentler terrain.
Yes I think we know this. And of course, with 1000W instead of 700 you could go even faster, or even steeper. I acknowledged earlier that SLs may not suit heavier riders, but not all full fat riders are heavy dudes.

I enjoy speed as well as steep technical climbs with my Rail, but what won me over with the Fuel+ was a purer, albeit a tad slower, ride experience. I just think maybe we are missing out on this with today's emphasis on more power. YMMV. Thanks for your point of view (y).
 
I've just come across these two videos which set out the arguments first for the SL bikes and then for the full fat. I think the reviewer gives an intelligent and unbiassed comparison of their pros and cons.

Why SL is best

Why full fat is best

In the first vid he makes an interesting comment about the difference in traction and grip between the two categories of bike, which I would agree with. For me, the slightly lesser traction with the SL bike in the corners, together with its lighter weight, makes it more playful and fun. Or, at least, it's easier to be be playful and fun.

As always, horses for courses, and everyone will have their own goals and preferences. But I am one happy full fat rider who has overlooked the benefits of the SL option until I tried out the Fuel+, and I'm very glad I got the chance to do that. So the intention of this thread is just to say, if you have the opportunity why not try out some SL bikes. You might find you like them :).
 
I’ve been saying for a few years now. The SL and full power bikes will merge into one eventually. Once the full power bike weights come down the SL market is essentially dead. I think it is very close but probably two more new bike releases away. I have an SL and have ridden several full power. I can say a SL 43 lb bike rides way better than a full power 50+ pound bike.
 
I’ve been saying for a few years now. The SL and full power bikes will merge into one eventually. Once the full power bike weights come down the SL market is essentially dead. I think it is very close but probably two more new bike releases away. I have an SL and have ridden several full power. I can say a SL 43 lb bike rides way better than a full power 50+ pound bike.
I thought the same but the gen4 levo went the other way, bigger heavier more battery, power etc
 
I have an SL and have ridden several full power. I can say a SL 43 lb bike rides way better than a full power 50+ pound bike.
As a full fat rider I was skeptical that lighter SL bikes would ride that much better. I must admit I was wrong. But aside from its lighter weight what I enjoy about the lower powered Fuel+ is that it gives "enough" support without destroying the natural sensation of pedalling with human leg effort. That's my personal opinion, YMMV.

At the other extreme, the 1000+W of the Avinox motor is blurring the boundaries between a mountain bicycle and an off-road motorcycle, and the current power arms race will only accentuate this. The laws of physics will always apply even with technological developments, and the new Gen 4 Levo shows that Specialized have chosen the compromise towards more power at the expense of lighter weight. Is this trend driven by genuine customer demand or by the brand marketing departments who fear being left behind?
 
Last weekend I rode a Heckler SL and Levo 4 back to back for 30-45 minutes each, and the difference was stark. The Levo conquered all obstacles and easily in trail* mode, where as the Heckler in turbo*needed notable rider assist on the super steep. ( *no idea what the micro settings were ) On the single track is where the Heckler shined- felt like an analog on steroids. Less planted on the front end for sure, but much more flickable. The Levo never lost its front end, whereas the Heckler did once and spectacularly!Probably rider error as I was flying🤦🏻‍♂️😂
Thinking somewhere in between the two is where I want to be- maybe a Vala, but a Fuel+ MX might do just fine as well- but do I want to give up the nm for the sake of balance?🤔
 
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I think we are very close to where you get a full power motor that is hopefully at the Class 1 max power limit of 750w/ 1 hp and sitting around 2.0 kgs (i.e. Maxon). The bikes will all have a very energy dense fixed battery, hopefully with new cell technology, and sitting around 550-650watts, so that it's very light. Then every bike will have room for a RE.

I find that so few people need more than 600 watts for the majority of rides (queue the one guy that pedals up a mountain from his front door and only wants to carry a single bottle), I really think it's silly to build the frames for 800w internal. It's bad for weight distribution and if you make it long and skinny (i.e. Avinox) it damages handling and manual-ing.

Also, there is nothing wrong with requiring losing the bottle holder for the RE because once rides go over the 3-hour mark, you'll need a hydration pack anyways. But they need to make it quick swap where you don't have to unscrew a bottle cage and install a RE. It needs to just drop in like a bottle. And why they are at it the custom bottle cage should have at a minimum a multitool in it.
 
Great posts.

I'm almost certainly going to get a new Full power e-bike, but I don't really need it for my terrain and fitness level.

The HP60 with it's non-noise, natural assistance, hidden looks & high efficiency are very appealing, and I looked at it long and hard.

What stopped me was that it's very hot where I live for several months of the year and although the steeps are short, they are quite steep and as I result my Fazua 60 stays in the 'turbo' mode which is 350 watts and I often desire more. If the HP 60 offered 450 watts, I'd buy it. I'd use 250 on flatter terrain, 350 on Enduro terrain in the winter, and 450w in our summers on the most technical terrain.

Regulator SX seems like the sweet spot currently.
 
Then this weekend I test rode the Trek Fuel+ MX for 70km and 1800m+ over the two days.

I was hoping this experience would finally satisfy my curiosity with the mid power motor options, and I could return the test bike to the shop knowing that these motors (or at least the TQ60) could not give me enough assistance for my 67 year old legs to get me up my local steep, rocky and often very technical climbs.

The result.... I was absolutely blown away by this bike!

This is how I bought my KSL. I was perfectly happy with my 25kg 2018 Kenevo, didn’t really feel like the ff game had moved on (arguably it didn’t until the Amflow), was curious about less weight. I took @Doomanic ’s toy-sized KSL down one trail and bought one the following week. It’s still my favourite bike and the lower power works in a lot of situations.

I mostly use my ff for getting a few laps in between meetings, when I need to not turn up red faced and out of breath. The SL is for when I have more time, it provides plenty of range and is much more fun. There’s a wierd obsession on here with range/power/battery life, where anyone saying a lower powered bike with a small battery is good gets shot down. Sure everywhere is different, so go ride a bunch of different bikes and see what works for your style on your trails.
 
I mostly use my ff for getting a few laps in between meetings
Is that Alcoholics Anonymous meetings? :ROFLMAO:

Agree with your comments about the general dismissal of lower power, smaller battery bikes, and I must admit that when a UK friend was wondering what bike to buy to replace his stolen Cube Stereo I suggested he might find he'd regret not simply getting another full fat. The TQ60 with 580W battery has now changed my opinion.

I think many people argue that if technology advances so that we can have a 1000W motor in a 20kg full fat bike, then why wouldn't you choose that over a 350W 20kg SL? It's a superficially convincing argument. But I think that to genuinely exploit the benefits of a higher power motor the bike frame and components simply have to be beefier and hence heavier. You don't see any 30kg petrol engined MX bikes!

But maybe the real question is if you could have a 2000W or a 3000W motor in the same 20kg bike, would you want it? There comes a point where the eMTB is now just an electric powered MX bike, and the act of pedalling serves little more than as a switch or throttle to turn the power up or down. No longer really a mountain bicycle?
 
The issue will soon become that the Maxon Is only .1kg heavier than the TQ60.
So then the weight is just determined by the battery size that you choose. No need to miss the power when you want it.
Imagine this: A Maxon bike with a 500w battery and a 300w RE. It's an SL, and a full power in one!
 
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