Bafang M560RS, first impressions, HW

[Dado]

Hello Bafangers

I hope soon will be introduced M560RS

Lets see what changes we get.

What do you think, will have "plastic" gear?
Will be only in 500W?
Will be there hill holding function? (Sorry dont know how is the correct name for this)
Will be there some traction control with new speed disc with better resolution? (42 holes for revolution)
Will be just with new speed disc and sensor?

 

[Misenko]

Hello Bafangers

I hope soon will be introduced M560RS

View attachment 167782

Lets see what changes we get.

What do you think, will have "plastic" gear?
Will be only in 500W?
Will be there hill holding function? (Sorry dont know how is the correct name for this)
Will be there some traction control with new speed disc with better resolution? (42 holes for revolution)
Will be just with new speed disc and sensor?

1. No
2. No
3. Yes
4. No
5. Yes

 

[Neutrino]

Here's a guy who took apart an M560RS. All the gears are metal.

Luna M600 Ludicrous V2 reverse engineering and firmware making

I think it is a good idea to take some images before I burned this thing to the ground. If something will happen after plugging it to the power at least we will have some happy memory pictures. There you have it guys, the original vs the counterfeit. Which one do you prefer? Yours. For...

endless-sphere.com

 

[Misenko]

Here's a guy who took apart an M560RS. All the gears are metal.

Luna M600 Ludicrous V2 reverse engineering and firmware making

I think it is a good idea to take some images before I burned this thing to the ground. If something will happen after plugging it to the power at least we will have some happy memory pictures. There you have it guys, the original vs the counterfeit. Which one do you prefer? Yours. For...

endless-sphere.com

Yes, with that power I don't think it will have peek gear. In any case, I have M600 with nylon gear and M560 with all steel gears and there is no big difference ich mechanical noise of gears to be honest. Issue still is the high pitched noise from rotor/stator assembly. This is of course higher on 560 because of different mechanical construction.

Any way I found all bafang noisy, M600, M510, M560 all noisy above 70 rpms. There is same noisy feeling for all of them. M600 is the most quiet but still is noisy in comparison with bosch for example.

For that reason I'm dare to say RS versions of both M510 and M560 will be same noise as their predecessor and maybe even more noisier because bafang does nothing in reduction of this high pitched electric noise.

 

[Neutrino]

Yes, with that power I don't think it will have peek gear. In any case, I have M600 with nylon gear and M560 with all steel gears and there is no big difference ich mechanical noise of gears to be honest. Issue still is the high pitched noise from rotor/stator assembly. This is of course higher on 560 because of different mechanical construction.

Any way I found all bafang noisy, M600, M510, M560 all noisy above 70 rpms. There is same noisy feeling for all of them. M600 is the most quiet but still is noisy in comparison with bosch for example.

For that reason I'm dare to say RS versions of both M510 and M560 will be same noise as their predecessor and maybe even more noisier because bafang does nothing in reduction of this high pitched electric noise.

It's absurd to compare the M560 to the Bosch, as it's almost twice as powerful. I'm willing to accept a lot, considering how the M560 rides. The noise doesn't bother me at all. Quite the contrary, it's part of the engine feedback.

 

[Misenko]

It's absurd to compare the M560 to the Bosch, as it's almost twice as powerful. I'm willing to accept a lot, considering how the M560 rides. The noise doesn't bother me at all. Quite the contrary, it's part of the engine feedback.

It's not absurd. M560 might be more powerful but it is crazy noisy. It's not an art to create a powerful but noisy motor. The art is to create a powerful yet silent motor. If you don't like Bosch, have a look at DJI Avinox. That blows bafang out of the water, sorry. Paper parameters is one thing, and real power the second. Bosch gen. 4 is more powerful than M510 while on paper M510 should be much stronger. I was shocked by the noise of M560 and on a trail in the night it's pretty pain to ride. It's screaming like crazy above 70 rpms.

Also the smoothness is different level with Bosch. Not everything is about power...

 

[Neutrino]

It's not absurd. M560 might be more powerful but it is crazy noisy. It's not an art to create a powerful but noisy motor. The art is to create a powerful yet silent motor. If you don't like Bosch, have a look at DJI Avinox. That blows bafang out of the water, sorry. Paper parameters is one thing, and real power the second. Bosch gen. 4 is more powerful than M510 while on paper M510 should be much stronger. I was shocked by the noise of M560 and on a trail in the night it's pretty pain to ride. It's screaming like crazy above 70 rpms.

Also the smoothness is different level with Bosch. Not everything is about power...

In any case, for me personally, the M560 750W is the best motor on the market. The DJI doesn't have a throttle, which I need on technical sections.

 

[Misenko]

In any case, for me personally, the M560 750W is the best motor on the market. The DJI doesn't have a throttle, which I need on technical sections.

Fair enough. People have various requirements so what is good for one is not that great for another one and vice versa. My issue is that bafang for all those years did nothing regarding noise. It's always one is quieter then other but that does not mean the first is silent

 

[Dado]

In any case, for me personally, the M560 750W is the best motor on the market. The DJI doesn't have a throttle, which I need on technical sections.

I am glad somebody appreciate it. I am riding throttle for like 12y now. Best thing ever and so much fun (but your fitness is going down the drain)

And to the power, new Bosch was measured at 685W, M560 has cca 1kW on a wheel. Lets say 900+W if they have bad efficiency.

 

[Dado]

Guys, very first observations. I did it again and bought first version of motor. So will be again selling it with a loss.
Will do some experiments, and will try to make it work also with old speed sensor (people with old frames could appreciate).
Also will try to load there 750W older firmware, lets see if would work.

 

[Misenko]

I am glad somebody appreciate it. I am riding throttle for like 12y now. Best thing ever and so much fun (but your fitness is going down the drain)

And to the power, new Bosch was measured at 700W, M560 has cca 1kW.

You guys are biased by throttle so you ignore kther aspects

Guys, very first observations. I did it again and bought first version of motor. So will be again selling it with a loss.
Will do some experiments, and will try to make it work also with old speed sensor (people with old frames could appreciate).
Also will try to load there 750W older firmware, lets see if would work.

You already have M560RS version? Jesus christ the noise are you kidding me So my M560 is super silent against this. OMG when bafang will wake up. And you want to tell me the noise on your M560 is much better and does not have similarly pitched noise with lower intensity ? Looking forward for teardown.

 

[Dado]

Stop with this moaning. On the table it still sounds like this. Under the load is much different.

 

[Misenko]

Stop with this moaning. On the table it still sounds like this. Under the load is much different.

We can meet when you have it installed on your bike, I want to see it with my own eyes how "silent" is it. If it is this noisy on a table, then in frame will be even worse because the frame works like an amplifier... You can check mine M560 as well and I guarantee it's noisy like shit. But probably our levels of noise perception is very different.

 

[Dado]

Some pictures of inside.

Mechanical hw looks exactly the same. I was not opening it more and inspecting for the gears if the same. Rotor, stator looks the same. 19 turns windings.

Theres new controller, now labeled as XC01 MB v1.7. But just few components are different - mostly just some safety components. There is now much thicker coating - which is good against moisture.

Controller has Assistance levet % up to 1000% - EU legislative is saying it should be max 400% )

Notice the damaged electrolytic condensator, which is leaking. Will have to replace it. Caused when they were closing it, not hit by connectors, but looks to me hit by the metal part which is covering rotor magnet. Not good, they should take care of this.

New torque sensor with better resolution, but is not communicating over CAN. And I was not measuring here 5V power as on previous TS.

And still dont understand meaning of this small external box for new speed sensor. Could be just temporary solution. If they did new controller version, this electronic could have been placed on controller PCB. Very strange. First when I saw it I thought it could be CAN converter to send speed info over CAN, but is not. (also thought this box could sign the speed packets - which could make it harder to speed unlock). It is a hall sensor with permanent pre-bias magnet.
I dont see any advantage here. I dont care much if I have accurate speed reading at very small speeds.
But could be prepared for future for the "hill holding" function. Which would need new firmware for a display and controller firmware.

Motor is not throwing Error 21 at all without connected speed sensor (have tried just with throttle) - thats great, it was just annoying and can stop you when malfunction of speed sensor occure on a trip. Speed limit for throttle still 45kmh.

 

[TQFreak]

5V on torque sensor goes from this

 

[Misenko]

Can you sum up benefits
of this motor against M560 ? In terms of power, noise, etc? What was improved? I thought it will have peek gears. Bosch has hill hold for quite some time already.

 

[Dado]

TQ I know, just 5V is not now on the Torque sensor connector. So will be 3.3V now. Could cause a confusion.

 

[Neutrino]

Guys, very first observations. I did it again and bought first version of motor. So will be again selling it with a loss.
Will do some experiments, and will try to make it work also with old speed sensor (people with old frames could appreciate).
Also will try to load there 750W older firmware, lets see if would work.

So what about the riding impressions?

 

[Dado]

No riding impressions, did not install it into to frame.

 

[curufinwe_wins]

Any guess as to if the lighting connectors are still super low capacity? (0.5A)

 

[Dado]

Have not measured it, but will be 99% same: 0.5A and 12V. I dont see any change of PCB of power delivery components.

 

[borysgo2]

Dado
Woud You be able to check how is the voltage vs % of the battery in fc3.0? Let me say where in voltage/ scale is 10% of the battery?
Can it use one-up battery?
Thanks

 

[Dado]

Dado
Woud You be able to check how is the voltage vs % of the battery in fc3.0? Let me say where in voltage/ scale is 10% of the battery?
Can it use one-up battery?
Thanks

Hello

Can check where is 10%, with no load. (Will be same voltage to SOC mapping I guess
One-up battery will be possible, will confirm soon.

 

[Dado]

Seems exactly same settings.
44.4V = 10%
41.8V = 0%
And I guess also power limitation would start at 25%

It can handle one cell up, tested with 58.8V

 

[Tipsy_MTBER]

Just found out the motor on my new e82 will be the RS. What is the difference? How do you fit the disc in the photos above, im assuming its to do with speed sensor. Can it be used without that fitted???

 

[TQFreak]

That slotted disc is sandwiched and mounted with the rear brake disc. It is for speed sensor. You can use the motor without it, you will not have the speed reading, mileage and probably some other functions though.

 

[patdam]

to follow this tread.
i have ordered one 510rs without any really know his characteristic . it seem that it have specific HMI ? i hope this one are seriously developed by bafang before exit

 

[Dado]

Patdam, you really hope this time it will be seriously developed? First beta versions are still bad.

But there are some videos already with new 510RS, with the hill hold function. And I guess also new display DPC245.
Still looking forward what amperage they put in 510RS. They need to try to catch up with Bosch 5th gen. Has 25A.

 

[patdam]

Patdam, you really hope this time it will be seriously developed? First beta versions are still bad.

But there are some videos already with new 510RS, with the hill hold function. And I guess also new display DPC245.
Still looking forward what amperage they put in 510RS. They need to try to catch up with Bosch 5th gen. Has 25A.

mans live in hope . You are true, i think it's too early, but i don't find avinox frame kit. In fact i find M510 power enough, but less "efficient" in technical climb than current generations motors. I'm curious to see if with multipoint speed sensor, it will be facilitate climbing.

 

[Dado]

Do not expect any better climbing or better pedalling behaviour from disc speed sensor.

There is new torque sensor with new pas sensor. Looks to me now it is optical. I see there bigger disc (looks like plastic) with 48 impulses per revolution.