DirkWisely
Well-known member
24.31 mi / 3,282 ft left me with 26% battery. Ridden in 70/100 dynamic microtune.
Levo Gen 4 Gen 4 Sworks and Non-Sworks New Firmware Coming Soon (Yes, Really !)
- Thread starter Seagrave7
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DuncanDoughnuts
Active member
Thats 39km/1000m - Not bad actually at 70%
Eduardoramundo
E*POWAH Master
TitusDC
Member
You can turn on translate in Google to auto translate non English posts.
PaulH2B
Member
Hey folks, so what’s the deal with that supposedly upcoming update?
Any new info, or were all those rumors and announcements just total nonsense? At first, there were some whispers that certain dealers had been told something was coming through local shops around mid-October, then it supposedly got pushed to November. Then the word was it would roll out as an OTA update. My LBS still knows nothing—I’ve tried asking them multiple times (or at least they pretend they don't know anything).
What really makes me wonder: there’s basically zero hints anywhere online on other platforms that anything is actually coming, except for that one Facebook post, which also raises questions.
Please share your latest information or thoughts.
Any new info, or were all those rumors and announcements just total nonsense? At first, there were some whispers that certain dealers had been told something was coming through local shops around mid-October, then it supposedly got pushed to November. Then the word was it would roll out as an OTA update. My LBS still knows nothing—I’ve tried asking them multiple times (or at least they pretend they don't know anything).
What really makes me wonder: there’s basically zero hints anywhere online on other platforms that anything is actually coming, except for that one Facebook post, which also raises questions.
Please share your latest information or thoughts.
Maybe Santa knows when?
I’ve been skeptical since the beginning of this internet rumor. Then again, Specialized officially announced a smaller main-compartment battery a long time ago and it’s still not here, so maybe things are just moving super slowly?
Maybe for the US Xmas season?
Maybe they saved updates for next seasons release? Then trickle down to us post purchase rumor riders at an additional kidney?
I like spreading rumors. I heard they will allow class 3 at 100% torque, but only if you blow past .02 BAC on the app. My LBS told me that in a bar.
Maybe, out on a limb here, so must hurry….. it’s just a rumor.,. @snap@
gets me every time….
People need to respect there are unyielding physical limitations at play here. Any additional power will come with increased heat generation. Thus some expense in reliability and/or power budgeting (being backed down) in some conditions due to thermal capacity will be paid. Sure they could only increase the non-SW motor but then you have a marketing and customer satisfaction issue because that would diminish the value of their flagship product. I wouldn't be surprised if Specialized comes out with a 3.2 version motor that is beefed up somehow to reliably deliver increased power.
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I know you're being facetious but most vendors are already in the Black Friday selling season, or will be this Friday.As everything is these days in the world...It will be released on Black Friday with a massive discount as a subscription based service
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Ohhh yeah!!!!!! This idea
A motor trade up program where you send in yours for a new one, just pay a fee(of course)! Some RC companies do this.
Don’t piss off old customers, give em chance to update.
Unfortunately if/when, it would come in the way of a 9k frame instead of a 1-2k motor upgrade
You cannot mention the S word. We must never mention the S word. That’s when I evacuate a brand, quicker than my guts evacuate dashboard TacoBell.As everything is these days in the world...It will be released on Black Friday with a massive discount as a subscription based service
You're assuming the current motor is at the limits of it's capabilities. Who says 111nm/720w is it's design/reliability limit? Perhaps they designed in room for later power increases like Bosch did.
My assumption is more nuanced than that. I’m assuming that they were balancing output vs reliability and consistency of delivery in all conditions. There’s no free lunch. Something has to be sacrificed for more output. Sure I could be mistaken but I believe my assumption is far more plausible than they left extra headroom for no reason other than releasing more later.
Battery life/range will be the sacrifice. IIRC the 3.1 motor is one of the heaviest on the market, I would say it's more than robust enough to tolerate 115nm/850w.
The Bosch gen 4 was designed as a 80nm/600w motor. The gen 5 (which is not hugely different internally) is good for 100nm/750w.
I guess we'll see. I am pretty sure updates to bring more power will happen.
Eduardoramundo
E*POWAH Master
It was confirmed to me by Spesh that an Update is definitely happening very shortly. Whether it will have a power update is yet to be seen though.
DuncanDoughnuts
Active member
More power would be cool. But I personally would prefer more functionality. Coast shift, auto shift, soft shift. Smart power and HR settings
Current draw at maximum load:
Levo gen3
565W/36V = 15,7A/4 parallel cell groups = 3,9A per cell
Levo gen4
720W/51V = 14,1A / 3 parallel cell groups = 4,7A per cell
Bosch Gen5
750W/36V = 20,8A / 4 parallel cell groups = 5,2A per cell
Avinox
850W(1000W)/36V = 23,6A(27,7A)/4 parallel cell groups = 5,9A(6,9A) per cell
The current draw specs of an average 5Ah cell Samsung INR21700-50E are:
Max continuous discharge current: 9,8A
Max pulse discharge current: 14,7A
So if we look at the most hungry system here, even at peak power of 1000W the battery cells still operate at only 70% of continuous discharge capability.
As far as I know the Bosch Gen 4 can't be updated to 750W because the electronics aren't layed out for it, while as the new gen5 has them updated to fit the power jump.
The modern emtb motors are surely capable of extra load, I mean there are 48V systems out there capable of much much more current then it's flowing in ebike systems. For example from my experience from the eskate industry, there are 48V motors that fit into your palm with peak power numbers beyond 1000W and current draws way higher then in the ebike industry.
Flipsky 6384 Battle Hardened Electric Motor - ATBShop.co.uk Flipsky 6384 Battle Hardened Electric Motor - ATBShop.co.uk
I am more then sure the emtb motors are layed out for more then they operate at, the Spesh 3.1 because of it's increased mass especially being derating proof.
Levo gen3
565W/36V = 15,7A/4 parallel cell groups = 3,9A per cell
Levo gen4
720W/51V = 14,1A / 3 parallel cell groups = 4,7A per cell
Bosch Gen5
750W/36V = 20,8A / 4 parallel cell groups = 5,2A per cell
Avinox
850W(1000W)/36V = 23,6A(27,7A)/4 parallel cell groups = 5,9A(6,9A) per cell
The current draw specs of an average 5Ah cell Samsung INR21700-50E are:
Max continuous discharge current: 9,8A
Max pulse discharge current: 14,7A
So if we look at the most hungry system here, even at peak power of 1000W the battery cells still operate at only 70% of continuous discharge capability.
As far as I know the Bosch Gen 4 can't be updated to 750W because the electronics aren't layed out for it, while as the new gen5 has them updated to fit the power jump.
The modern emtb motors are surely capable of extra load, I mean there are 48V systems out there capable of much much more current then it's flowing in ebike systems. For example from my experience from the eskate industry, there are 48V motors that fit into your palm with peak power numbers beyond 1000W and current draws way higher then in the ebike industry.
Flipsky 6384 Battle Hardened Electric Motor - ATBShop.co.uk Flipsky 6384 Battle Hardened Electric Motor - ATBShop.co.uk
I am more then sure the emtb motors are layed out for more then they operate at, the Spesh 3.1 because of it's increased mass especially being derating proof.
com esse alto consumo do motor 3.1? Impossível sair algo que preste sem que houvesse troca da bateria... o problema do G4 é a densidade energética baixa da bateria e o consumo alto do motor. Aumentar torque e potência sem trocar a bateria vai fritar tudo inclusive os clientes da marca. G4 nasceu morto com a chegada do Bosch Gen5 e do carrasco de todos, Avinox.
If Bosch and Avinox are getting by using the 800wh batteries than the 840wh of the Specialized won't be an issue.
como disse, a pior densidade energética entre elas é a da bateria da specialized...
Please post in English.
Does the Specialized battery use lower capacity cells than Bosch and Avinox? I would have assumed they used the 21700 cells also.
Por favor, publique em inglês. Este é um site de língua inglesa. É falta de educação esperar que todos os outros traduzam os seus posts. Traduza-os para inglês antes de publicar.
[Please post in english. This is an english speaking site. It is rude to expect everyone else to translate your posts. Translate them to english before posting.]
No they don't, why would you think that? They all use cells with a cca 5,5Ah capacity.
Avinox and Bosch battery pack configuration is a 10S4P
10S(cells in series) x 3,6V x 5,5Ah x 4P(cells parallel) ≈ 800Wh
Specialized Levo 4 battery battery configuration is a 14S3P
14S(cells in series) x 3,6V x 5,5Ah x 3P(cells in parallel) ≈ 840Wh
DylanJM the battery capacity (Wh) doesn't really matter here, but I agree, yes there a still a lot of reserves in the Spesh system. The overall system at current setup runs on the lowest amperage of them all, the only new motor that compares by amperage draw is the new 48V Yamaha/Giant, but would need battery specs for exact numbers.
So an example, If Spesh upped the power to 850W to match Avinox, their system being a 52V would run on much lower overall 16,6A/5,6A per cell(basically cells working at 55% of their capability). A possible boost function of 1000W would draw overall 19,6A/6,5A per cell, those are numbers that are still under the maximum current draw of the Avinox, the overall current draw being cca 29% lower at Spesh.
So an example, If Spesh upped the power to 850W to match Avinox, their system being a 52V would run on much lower overall 16,6A/5,6A per cell(basically cells working at 55% of their capability). A possible boost function of 1000W would draw overall 19,6A/6,5A per cell, those are numbers that are still under the maximum current draw of the Avinox, the overall current draw being cca 29% lower at Spesh.
Power1tobe
Active member
There is nothing to think about, Specialized would have tested this motor prior to release. In other words they already have the numbers and know whether this is or isn't an acceptable move. As far as battery consumption, it would seem a no brainer as more power = more draw but as stated above it well within the 52V systems ability.
I didn’t think they did. The poster I was quoting was trying to say that the Specialized was somehow behind with their battery so I was pushing back.
Yeah, I was to fast posting, later realized that
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