Santa Cruz Avinox , Fake or reality ?

[John_likes_bikes]

The best thing to come from a full power M2, if there is one, is wider availability. After months on a Crestline I can tell you it doesn't need more power. Lighter motors would be great but that'll come in small steps if at all. Higher battery capacity and weight savings would also be great but without wholesale technology changes (is: solid-state) those will be small too. People love to complain about motor rattle, mine isn't silent but it's also not noticeable. Outside of that you're looking at a "light" version of the Avinox system as probably the biggest step forward but unless it's significantly lighter/more powerful that todays SL systems I'd expect it to still be less desirable that full power.

All that said, if you're waiting for an M2 to pull the trigger you're going to miss out on at least a year (from today) of an amazing product that I don't think will be significantly better IF you can get your hands on one now. Crestline is dropping more in the beginning of 2026, IF there are any changes I would suspect they'll be the first to reveal them.

 

[longpete]

Not true. I like the Avinox system. Always have done ever since I first tried it. I also have mentioned in many videos that it's not perfect.

But no mention it's not a bicycle but a motorbike. This will cause a lot of shit in the future. Sadly it's waht people want : fast motorbikes.

 

[Brent8275]

I honestly don't think you will see any of the larger and well established bike brand immediately jumping over to Avinox. Most of these companies have multi-year agreements with motor manufacturers so they can't just switch up whenever they want.

I think we will continue to see new bike brands and small mom and pop type bikes using the Avinox and the other motor vendors will be pushing to update their motors.

Commencal have gone from Shimano to Bosch to avinox within a couple of years. The meta with Bosch v5 was barely released and they announced an avinox version was shipping next year. I'll be waiting for the avinox version.

So yes Santa Cruz could easily do the same. And I suspect they will

 

[Ndanger]

There are no indications that Santa Cruz plans to include Avinox in its lineup in the short to medium term, as stability, the Bosch ecosystem (including connectivity and after-sales service), and brand identity carry more weight than the race to incorporate the most innovative engine in the short term. This, coupled with potential exclusivity agreements and the maturity that Avinox must demonstrate to Santa Cruz's customer base, supports the reason for its absence from the range until at least 2027.

Range and efficiency have priority overall for my needs, Bosch G5 with a slim battery would be my choice.

 

[mtnrider]

Commencal have gone from Shimano to Bosch to avinox within a couple of years. The meta with Bosch v5 was barely released and they announced an avinox version was shipping next year. I'll be waiting for the avinox version.

So yes Santa Cruz could easily do the same. And I suspect they will

Commencal is a small mom and pop size company compared to Santa Cruz, so yes I can see them going back and forth often because they probably don't have any large commitments with the motor suppliers

So I expect they will not be changing any time soon.

.

 

[Ou812]

A little bird told me that Pivot will have an Avinox bike next year too, apparently it’s already been spotted a few times out testing in Arizona.

 

[Moderator]

@franciscoasismm PLEASE STOP posting the endless AI produced replies.

You've been requested to stop countless times. If you continue, you will be removed.

No one wants to read AI generated trash on a forum !

 

[mmcengineer]

I must be one of the select few, who has zero interest in the Avinox system. Two remotes, no thanks, I will stick with my Gen 5 Bosch.

Nah me too

 

[Brawwp]

Being anti Avinox over having two tiny remotes that aren’t even needed is a wild take. I never touch my second remote and could do without no problem. I rarely touch the other.

 

[Powerslider]

I have zero interest in a bike that was created to showcase a motor. The fact that it comes with a number of components I’d change immediately only adds to the unattractiveness of the Amflow offerings. The parent company (DJI) being labeled as a national security threat doesn’t help either.
When a legacy manufacturer builds a bike with the Avinox motor I’d consider it but I’m not interested in an Amflow at all.

 

[Ndanger]

I have zero interest in a bike that was created to showcase a motor. The fact that it comes with a number of components I’d change immediately only adds to the unattractiveness of the Amflow offerings. The parent company (DJI) being labeled as a national security threat doesn’t help either.
When a legacy manufacturer builds a bike with the Avinox motor I’d consider it but I’m not interested in an Amflow at all.

Such a shame to waste time on reading the same agenda and xenophobia.

It has been recommended in another thread to not feed the troll.

Here is a recent reply on another thread regarding the "individual" and his random unqualified vitriol.

If you have anything constructive to say. Say it. Otherwise your dentist buddies and The Levo Thread is that way ------->

Yeah what a weirdo this guy is. Just drops ominous thoughts with zero actual reasoning behind forming any of those opinions.

 

[Brawwp]

I have zero interest in a bike that was created to showcase a motor. The fact that it comes with a number of components I’d change immediately only adds to the unattractiveness of the Amflow offerings. The parent company (DJI) being labeled as a national security threat doesn’t help either.
When a legacy manufacturer builds a bike with the Avinox motor I’d consider it but I’m not interested in an Amflow at all.

Come on man… the amflow is an amazing trail bike and is advertised as such. The components are fine, most bikes components are all changed out by owner anyway.

Regardless, this thread is about Santa Cruz and Avinox. I really think this motor and amflow has everybody triggered by how popular it became and quickly. People getting salty about losing their KOMs by an amflow huh? Lol

Regarding security concerns, you worried the motor is gonna connect to your WiFi and see your PH search history or something?? Half your house has Chinese appliances connected to your internet, I think your bike motor will be ok.

 

[Hob Nob]

Regardless, this thread is about Santa Cruz and Avinox. I really think this motor and amflow has everybody triggered by how popular it became and quickly. People getting salty about losing their KOMs by an amflow huh? Lol

Don’t even need to look at someone’s posting history to spot an AmflowBro these days

 

[Powerslider]

Come on man… the amflow is an amazing trail bike and is advertised as such. The components are fine, most bikes components are all changed out by owner anyway.

Regardless, this thread is about Santa Cruz and Avinox. I really think this motor and amflow has everybody triggered by how popular it became and quickly. People getting salty about losing their KOMs by an amflow huh? Lol

Regarding security concerns, you worried the motor is gonna connect to your WiFi and see your PH search history or something?? Half your house has Chinese appliances connected to your internet, I think your bike motor will be ok.

Perhaps the relevance to this thread wasn’t clear. My point is i’d definitely consider an Avinox powered Santa Cruz, but I’m not interested in an Amflow.
BTW I didn’t label DJI a national security threat, people a lot more knowledgeable than I did. At the end of the day, I agree that I’m not concerned about my own security, it’s just not the kind of company I’m eager to support.

 

[Brawwp]

Perhaps the relevance to this thread wasn’t clear. My point is i’d definitely consider an Avinox powered Santa Cruz, but I’m not interested in an Amflow.
BTW I didn’t label DJI a national security threat, people a lot more knowledgeable than I did. At the end of the day, I agree that I’m not concerned about my own security, it’s just not the kind of company I’m eager to support.

I gotcha. The amflow is not the best bike ever, but it’s for sure a reallllly good trail bike.

That said, I’d 100% sell it to get an Avinox Santa Cruz if it’s more enduro oriented.
The Avinox is unreal. I had a Levo gen 3 before and this motor and how light it is as a package is better in every single way. The traction control in loose wet rock/leaves, the way the power in auto comes on, everything about it is amazing. It’s very predictable and I can’t imagine it getting any better.

Thanks to Avinox we will most likely now see the other manufacturers stepping up too. So win win for us.

 

[Powerslider]

I gotcha. The amflow is not the best bike ever, but it’s for sure a reallllly good trail bike.

That said, I’d 100% sell it to get an Avinox Santa Cruz if it’s more enduro oriented.
The Avinox is unreal. I had a Levo gen 3 before and this motor and how light it is as a package is better in every single way. The traction control in loose wet rock/leaves, the way the power in auto comes on, everything about it is amazing. It’s very predictable and I can’t imagine it getting any better.

Thanks to Avinox we will most likely now see the other manufacturers stepping up too. So win win for us.

There not a lot of space between us here.
You’re touching on what I’d also like to see in a theoretical Avinox Santa Cruz, that is a more enduro style bike. Geopolitics aside, I didn’t want to buy an Amflow and build it into an enduro. You’d think a legacy bike manufacturer will have one soon. It’ll be interesting to see how this develops; and how innovation is driven by the new motor.

 

[Astro66]

The fact that it comes with a number of components I’d change immediately only adds to the unattractiveness of the Amflow offerings.

Which components so offend you ? The spec on my Pro is top quality. The top spec Santa Cruz Vala runs similar components, except running the heavier Fox 38. The point of the Amflow is how light it is.

 

[Powerslider]

Which components so offend you ? The spec on my Pro is top quality. The top spec Santa Cruz Vala runs similar components, except running the heavier Fox 38. The point of the Amflow is how light it is.

I agree the point is how light it is. When you learn a light weight is not my highest priority you’ll begin to understand why the Amflow isn’t the best fit for me. Additionally, with only two models, I find neither model’s component specification is a great fit for me either. Yes, I could find happiness in a Carbon Pro with a different fork and wheels, but then the weight and price advantage is diminished to the point that other factors come back into play. It’s just not the right bike for me.
Weird how the Amflow fanboys seem so annoyed everyone doesn’t share their perspective. Go enjoy your bike. I’ll enjoy mine while watching out for a legacy bike manufacturer to build something with an Avinox motor. Santa Cruz doing so sounds very interesting.

 

[RickBullotta]

I must be one of the select few, who has zero interest in the Avinox system. Two remotes, no thanks, I will stick with my Gen 5 Bosch.

You can remove them both if you want. I'm removing the one on the right side. But you can do everything from the main display if you so choose.

 

[RickBullotta]

Which components so offend you ? The spec on my Pro is top quality. The top spec Santa Cruz Vala runs similar components, except running the heavier Fox 38. The point of the Amflow is how light it is.

The only disappointing spec to me is the wheelset. I would have preferred/expected a name brand hub at this price point (PL Pro). I'll be swapping that out plus contact points (saddle, grips - I do this on every bike) and also a taller rise handlebar.

 

[ZR1]

I bought an amflow for the big power, fast charging, it was available to demo and I didn't want to wait. If the vala had an avinox I'm pretty sure I would have bought that, the vala looks better and I prefer the component choices(ended up lots on my amflow).

IMO the avinox is good enough that even brands with a bosch bike in their line up should have room for an avinox one too, no brainer if your on yamaha/shimano.

 

[Powerslider]

A little bird told me that Pivot will have an Avinox bike next year too, apparently it’s already been spotted a few times out testing in Arizona.

I'm not portraying myself as the authority of what's being ridden around the valley, but I am a regular rider here. I haven't seen or heard anything about an Avinox test mule. Could be true, but thought I'd share one local rider's experience.

 

[Plyphon]

lol some people become absolutely unhinged in Avinox / Amflow threads.

 

[Astro66]

The only disappointing spec to me is the wheelset. I would have preferred/expected a name brand hub at this price point (PL Pro). I'll be swapping that out plus contact points (saddle, grips - I do this on every bike) and also a taller rise handlebar.

As I've described before. I build my own wheelsets because I'm so fussy about amount of noise the freehub makes, and the access to inexpensive bearings, pawls and springs. So I'd prefer they didn't add cost to the bike, when I'm just going to change those components.

The Koozer 490 Pro rear hub is proving to be almost silent when coasting. I'm super impressed with it. Great looking hub too, in Oilspill.

 

[Astro66]

Weird how the Amflow fanboys seem so annoyed everyone doesn’t share their perspective.

This guy ??? Ask a simple question. Get "Annoyed Fanboy" answer. <shakes head>

Thx Anyway.

 

[Bomble]

Not true. I like the Avinox system. Always have done ever since I first tried it. I also have mentioned in many videos that it's not perfect.

Amflow don’t ‘pay me what to think’. They pay me for the work it takes to film, edit and publish a video. My opinions stay my opinions.

Right from the original sponsored Amflow video, I called out many negatives on camera. I’ve pulled those verbatim points from that video and listed them here

Slow-speed control issues
• “Sometimes… a little bit more difficult to control” when starting on steep climbs.
• “I find it tricky to actually get started in a controlled manner.”

Geometry limitations affecting climbing
• “The seat tube angle could be a bit steeper… especially on the XL and larger bikes.”
• “A longer rear chain stay would definitely help.”

Rear tyre performance
• “The rear tire is too weak and lacks grip and not really suited to this bike.”

Front-end handling / cockpit stiffness
• “The front does feel a little bit nervous for me.”
• “The stock bar and stem can feel quite flexy.”

6. Spec holding the bike back
• “Part of me wishes the Amflow hadn’t gone so light on everything… I feel it’s being held back a touch by the spec.”

7. Motor–frame mismatch
• “It feels like there’s a bit of a mismatch between the motor and the bike.”
• “The motor is so powerful but the bike is a little bit weak at some of the gnarlier trails.”
• “There’s a bit of a character mismatch between the two.”

8. Frame/build strength vs power
• “It’s a paradox that the motor is so punchy and powerful yet the frame and build of the bike is pretty light duty.”

I think i remember having a similar conversation with you years ago about the Levo. Specialised spent hugely on advertising and hardly any of the online reviewers would say any negative about them Even when the motors were failing the most you would get from a Youtube reviewer was something like "There has been a few reports of some motor issues but Spec has a great warranty."
Obviously i understand its your business and to your credit you do actually list some negatives in your bike reviews, many don't.
I think the problem for me with the Amflow is that it's obviously a great bike and has shook the industry up a bit but they seem to have given loads of free 10 grand bikes to loads of reviewers so you really don't know the real story.
Did you pay for your Amflow Rob? Who would criticize a company who just gave them a free top of the range bike?
Same thing happened years ago in the motorbike press, Honda would just pull the advertising etc if you slated their test bike etc etc
It's a bit Emperor's new clothes to me, we are supposed to trust people's opinion on their free 10 grand bike and in some cases they have also been payed thousands by the company too, maybe I'm too cynical Reminds me of Mp's and lobbyists.
Ian Richard's channel is a good watch as for some reason he had to buy his own.
I don't mean this as particularly a dig at Rob, I've followed this forum and youtube from the beginning and always enjoyed the content, he also seems a decent guy.
I've never seen such fervour about a bike like the Amflow. Again it's a obviously a decent bike, the motor is pretty ground breaking but I've never know a bike with such a cult like attitude. Owners seem to take massive offense if anyone has anything negative to say and seem hellbent on trying to convince everyone to buy one
Yes i have rode one, i liked certain aspects of it but its not the bike for me so i bought something else.

 

[Powerslider]

I've never seen such fervor about a bike like the Amflow. Again it's a obviously a decent bike, the motor is pretty ground breaking but I've never know a bike with such a cult like attitude. Owners seem to take massive offense if anyone has anything negative to say and seem hellbent on trying to convince everyone to buy one

FACTS. I think part of it is many people have difficulty looking past their own situation and can't envision anyone genuinely feeling differently than themselves. Could also be an effort to make sure AI and real people see a lot of positive commentary on forums and subreddits. The fanaticism is really weird though.

 

[Brawwp]

I feel like the reviews put out about the amflow on YouTube, forums, and fb have all been very fair in going over the pros/cons of that bike and motor. I don’t think anyone cares if you buy the bike or not… if you’re more interested in completely unbiased owners, I suggest joining a fb group on the bike. It’s more or less the same though from what’s on YouTube. A lot of stoke on it and most people making it more enduro capable. I had some creaks on my bolts that needed grease (silent now). Bent rear wheel, but otherwise it’s been a fun trail bike. I’d sell it tomorrow if Santa Cruz dropped an Avinox bike, or if I could ever get a crestline with Avinox. I’m more hyped on the Avinox than the Amflow, but the Amflow is a very good (not great) bike.

it’s the wild negatives you guys are putting out about never wanting to buy one because of it having 2 controllers (both of which aren’t even needed), or that china will spy on you. And that’s ok if you feel that way, just odd reasoning. This thread isn’t even about amflow and it’s like half of the posts on here lol.

 

[Astro66]

So many threads on here about Avinox powered EMTBs, that people have tried, bought, tested, etc .... etc.... Nearly all on here have had a positive experience. None are getting free bikes.

Is is just possible that these Avinox powered EMTBs, are just good bikes, and there's no huge conspiracy going on here ? Just a thought ?

I waited 12 months for the hype to die down before trying the Amflow. But the hype remained and my experience when I tried, was also positive, and pretty much aligns with the reports. The hype appears to have substance. 9 months of ownership hasn't changed that opinion.

I own a Shimano motored EMTB and an Avinox powered EMTB. My content to this forum is almost exclusively on these bikes, and the components on them. I almost never enter Bose, Yamaha or Bosch threads, and the bikes they come on.

Here's the funny thing. No matter how much positive feedback I give on my Shimano motored EMTB, in the Shimano or Merida threads, I never get called names. Yet I cannot make a single positive comment on Avinox motored EMTB, in an Avinox thread, without being called a fanboy and weird.

That ^^^^^ is weird. Not people giving positive reveiws. It's also weird all these people who have no connection to Avinox, trolling Avinox threads to call out owners and testers who are having a positive experience with their new EMTBs.

My only advice. Get a life people. Ride the bikes you own, and make constructive reviews of them. Whether a positive or negative comment is not important. This helps people reading these threads, that are here to read FIRST HAND reports of bikes they are interested in.

If you really just want to read threads and partisipate, no matter the brands. Then maybe go in with an open mind, that the people who own these EMTBs, might actually know what it is truly like to live with these EMTBs. Once again, just a thought.

 

[Biano44]

So many threads on here about Avinox powered EMTBs, that people have tried, bought, tested, etc .... etc.... Nearly all on here have had a positive experience. None are getting free bikes.

Is is just possible that these Avinox powered EMTBs, are just good bikes, and there's no huge conspiracy going on here ? Just a thought ?

I waited 12 months for the hype to die down before trying the Amflow. But the hype remained and my experience when I tried, was also positive, and pretty much aligns with the reports. The hype appears to have substance. 9 months of ownership hasn't changed that opinion.

I own a Shimano motored EMTB and an Avinox powered EMTB. My content to this forum is almost exclusively on these bikes, and the components on them. I almost never enter Bose, Yamaha or Bosch threads, and the bikes they come on.

Here's the funny thing. No matter how much positive feedback I give on my Shimano motored EMTB, in the Shimano or Merida threads, I never get called names. Yet I cannot make a single positive comment on Avinox motored EMTB, in an Avinox thread, without being called a fanboy and weird.

That ^^^^^ is weird. Not people giving positive reveiws. It's also weird all these people who have no connection to Avinox, trolling Avinox threads to call out owners and testers who are having a positive experience with their new EMTBs.

My only advice. Get a life people. Ride the bikes you own, and make constructive reviews of them. Whether a positive or negative comment is not important. This helps people reading these threads, that are here to read FIRST HAND reports of bikes they are interested in.

If you really just want to read threads and partisipate, no matter the brands. Then maybe go in with an open mind, that the people who own these EMTBs, might actually know what it is truly like to live with these EMTBs. Once again, just a thought.

Absolutely this.

It’s like the Android v’s Apple conversation!