POLL: Do you want to be able to derestrict your Amflow PL?

[dimitrin]

My sentiments are the restriction should cut in at 28mph, not 20mph.
When riding some popular jump lines, a speed over 20mph is needed to clear the gap. Having the restriction kick in right when you need a little extra speed, and instead it feels like your pedaling through sand is a little disconcerting at a minimum.
Usually, on regular trail rides, it is a non-issue as I do not have a need to accelerate quickly above 20mph. And because of the 20mph restriction there are times I can out ride a pedal-assist bike while on my acoustic bike.
So, in my experience, it doesn't make sense for the cut off to be below 28mph, as there are riders that can routinely excede 20mph on their acoustic bikes.

 

[Polar]

"The new California law removes the word “continuous” from the regulation, meaning motors that are capable of briefly exceeding the 750W motor (i.e. most 750W motors), will now fall outside of electric bicycle regulations."

Does the new California law make Amflow illegal to import/buy and use?

 

[Doomanic]

When riding some popular jump lines, a speed over 20mph is needed to clear the gap.

How do people on neebs clear these jumps?

 

[Weeksy]

My sentiments are the restriction should cut in at 28mph, not 20mph.
When riding some popular jump lines, a speed over 20mph is needed to clear the gap. Having the restriction kick in right when you need a little extra speed, and instead it feels like your pedaling through sand is a little disconcerting at a minimum.
Usually, on regular trail rides, it is a non-issue as I do not have a need to accelerate quickly above 20mph. And because of the 20mph restriction there are times I can out ride a pedal-assist bike while on my acoustic bike.
So, in my experience, it doesn't make sense for the cut off to be below 28mph, as there are riders that can routinely excede 20mph on their acoustic bikes.

You have to remember why the legislation/laws exist, they don't exist for MTBers, they exist because selfish idiots would ride in towns and cities at 28mph in that world and be dangerous and cause accidents. Sure a manual bike CAN hit 28mph in towns, but it's harder without the assistance. You've also got to be a dedicated rider to do so really. With a derestricted MTB like that you can find a complete novice able to hit 28mph and wipe out a person or 2 in a city.
It may affect MTBers in a jumping context, but it's safe to say the people writing the laws have NEVER taken into consideration a run into a gap jump when debating speed limits
Is it fair, possibly not... but it's realistic

 

[dimitrin]

How do people on neebs clear these jumps?

I dont know, what is a neeb?

 

[Polar]

I dont know, what is a neeb?

It depends who you ask

 

[hsdrggr]

I derestricted my levo, I have no private land. It was for everyday use. I'll do the same once they release something for the amflow but expecting the manufacturer to make it available is a stretch. The only time I miss going past 25 is when I'm riding to the trails, once I'm there I don't even notice.

Hopefully you are out of warranty. It’s fairly evident that the Brose motors can’t handle much abuse. Specialized has been warranting gen1 & gen2 motors in large quantities. Gen3 not so much. But their software does datalog so if you’ve derestricted your Levo and submit for warranty they will deny it.

 

[iXi]

Hopefully you are out of warranty. It’s fairly evident that the Brose motors can’t handle much abuse. Specialized has been warranting gen1 & gen2 motors in large quantities. Gen3 not so much. But their software does datalog so if you’ve derestricted your Levo and submit for warranty they will deny it.

All good I got 2.5yrs out of it and just sold it. The new buyer bought it derestricted and was under no illusions there was no warranty but I sold it for a sharp price so he factored that in.

Even with mine derestricted I never thrashed the motor, rarely rode in boost etc

 

[skismith]

Just bumping this as this poll will close: Tomorrow at 7:35 PM (UK)

 

[mustclime]

Detested e bikes just give land managers a reason to ban e bikes from bike trails. If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

 

[rodgemx125]

One for @Amflow_Support to watch.

Following the recent software update that has removed the option to derestrict/remove the speed limit on the Amflow PL - Please vote to show whether this is a feature you would like restored?

Derestricting the bike is legal for use on private land and there are even race series in the UK allowing derestricted bikes: e.g Pedalhounds – Multi Stage MTB – EMTB Enduro

Thanks all.

There is a way to get round this on the new software version

 

[Le_fabulero75]

The one great thing about Shimano is their class 3 EP801!!

??? Pardon my ignorance

 

[skismith]

There is a way to get round this on the new software version

Can you share the workaround or PM?

 

[schwaiwal]

Can you share the workaround or PM?

hi,
please, i also need a workaround to set the region code again, or get the old version of the software! thanks

 

[Ride 2d@y]

??? Pardon my ignorance

I rode this 28mph Shimano powered bike at Outerbike Bentonville 2023 - I think a one-off custom build

 

[mustclime]

Just sell your e bike and get a e dirt bike and ride that on private land.

 

[HandsomeDanNZ]

View attachment 153266
I rode this 28mph Shimano powered bike at Outerbike Bentonville 2023 - I think a one-off custom build

I've said it a few times, but my Shimano EP6 was set to max 45km/h assistance from the shop - by a Shimano rep.
There are a few 45km/h Shimano-powered bikes available here in NZ, where we don't have legal speed restrictions.
It's not customised, it's just an available firmware setting that the shop or manufacturer can choose to install

 

[timo2824]

No the laws are absolutely fine. However there are no laws preventing you going beyond the limit on private land so as the owner there should be an option.

This is not some "I want my freedom" nonsense it's about what's reasonable.

But again this is all really simple.

All bikes sold remain compliant as they are today with restriction in place and owners can apply to deresrict with the manufacture accepting some basic terms and conditions.

There is no good reason for this to affect warranty and more than anything it's simply a box ticking exercise that allows them to continue to sell the bikes compliant but also give the user the choice.

It's no business of Bosch, DJI, Shimano or anyone else what I intend to do with my bike and it's my responsibility to remain with in the law at all times. It's not their job to force compliance.

People have become way to accepting of over reaching manufacture behavor and regulation of what we do.

This is again a classic example of punishing legitimate users while the AliExpress and Chinese imported cheap bikes and scooters are everywhere on the streets doing what they want with no restriction.

The guy who buys a 6k EMTB is not the problem.

I believe most of these companies offer their motors in class 3 trim, so it's not their fault that the bike manufacturers are specifying class 1 software settings. Any bike manufacturer can specify class 3 and sell it to whoever, but if that person gets checked by a ranger at a trailhead that bike is illegal irregardless of the speed the user rides at.

 

[Cranker]

Does anyone one know what firmware version new Amflows are being delivered with now, after the clamp down?
If they come with V00.08.0306 or if it's possible to upgrade to 08.0306 before upgrading to v09... then happy days.

I haven't been able to turn my bike off for a few weeks without removing the screen.
I'm thinking I might have to have the screen replaced and this will maybe loose my current region setting.
I think I'd rather unscrew the faulty screen from the bike after every ride rather than go back to 15mph.
My only hope is if the region settings are stored in the motor not the screen.

Hi mate. Is it really bad to ride the bike with the 15mph restriction? Genuinely wants to know before I get one.

 

[scipy]

Hi mate. Is it really bad to ride the bike with the 15mph restriction? Genuinely wants to know before I get one.

Depends on who you ask. The basket brigade will try to use the argument that it's just fine and if you want to go faster - get a scooter or a moped. The reality is this: once you threw in a few pedal strokes, and that's all it takes to get you to 15mph, the motor will cut the power and you're left pedaling a heavy e-bike with extra drag of the motor internals. It feels like pedaling through porridge and that's why I got all of my Specialized Levos derestricted right away. I wouldn't even ride them if there was no PLANET3 on them. That's mainly the reason I've stayed away from Bosch and Shimano for this long - just too much hassle when it comes to derestricting them "safely" and without errors.

 

[Motoxfreak]

Yes

 

[Leland331]

I live somewhere that I have tons of private property available, so yes. Even if I had to sign a waiver taking liability away from the Amflow/DJI to do it.

You can tell me to buy a surron, but I can’t take a surron on public trails can I? The Amflow still can, and a limiter could just be re enabled with like a check box for those days.

Or it could be treated like cars. I can buy a car that could triple speed limits all over. It’s on me if I drive too fast or dangerously. Not the car manufacturer. My last ebike could do 60kmh under its own power… but I have the sense to not be doing that at all where I’m not allowed, or where I could endanger someone moving slower.

 

[Astro66]

Like Shimano and Bosch, The DJI Motor can be derestricted. If that's what you want. Just do it. But it does come with warranty and legality issues. That's the price you pay, unless you live in New Zealand.

So options are.
A) Illegally Derestrict.
B) Move to New Zealand.
C) Continue moaning about Restriction.

Problem solved. You're Welcome.

 

[luna87824]

Like Shimano and Bosch, The DJI Motor can be derestricted. If that's what you want. Just do it. But it does come with warranty and legality issues. That's the price you pay, unless you live in New Zealand.

So options are.
A) Illegally Derestrict.
B) Move to New Zealand.
C) Continue moaning about Restriction.

Problem solved. You've Welcome.

Or the USA.....

 

[Astro66]

Or the USA.....

There is still some restriction in the US. There is none if you use New Zealand Mode on an Amflow. The bike literally becomes a SurRon.

 

[Leland331]

Yes, you can region change to derestrict it sure. But it’s still a hacky workaround. That we hope Amflow doesn’t close with a firmware update ever.

On all brands (unless going over a speed actually has a mechanical detriment on the bike which clearly isn’t the case with Amflow), we should just have a check box that says “if you check this, your bike isn’t a class 1 bike anymore and we pass all liabilities to the user. Do you understand and accept?”

In fact, weather it’s in restricted mode or not.. the speed and the way you operate the bike 100% should fall on the user regardless. Not the manufacturer.

I know I’d never buy a car limited to the speed limit per road/area. It’s up to me how fast I want to drive. What if I own an air strip or track and want to do 200kmh+? It’s sort of the case for me with an ebike. I have so much land where I am, that I could ride surron speeds with no consequences. But why should I have to buy two bikes when one is limited just because laws and politics?

 

[Astro66]

On all brands (unless going over a speed actually has a mechanical detriment on the bike which clearly isn’t the case with Amflow), we should just have a check box that says “if you check this, your bike isn’t a class 1 bike anymore and we pass all liabilities to the user. Do you understand and accept?”

The problem with that is that land use regulators would see that as a manufacturer allowed derestriction. And prohibit the Amflow to be ridden on so many land use areas, where they currently are allowed.

The best option is the existing hack option, so land use regulators see that Amflow have tried to lock down their speed limit. And class them the same as a MTB.

Regarding Amflow closing the hack. I had the same issue with my Shimano EP801. Shimano would patch to close the hack. So you didn't apply the next firmware patch until someone had a new hack. And if a new hack cannot be created. Then don't update your firmware. I am currently extremely happy with the Amflow firmware. If I couldn't update because Amflow closed the region hack. Then I just won't update.

 

[Winford]

The bike literally becomes a SurRon.

Hardly! what a huge exaggeration. Why are you making things up? The power is not even close. We have a 70 year old that rides with us on a Surron, its not the same even against unlocked bikes

 

[Winford]

There is still some restriction in the US.

What exactly might that be? Do you think they are enforcing bike classes in the USA ? its the wild west out here, no one with a gen 4 Sworks is riding in mode 1, and no one gives a hoot. Every fast rider already is running uncorked

 

[Astro66]

Hardly! what a huge exaggeration. Why are you making things up? The power is not even close. We have a 70 year old that rides with us on a Surron, its not the same even against unlocked bikes

What exactly might that be? Do you think they are enforcing bike classes in the USA ? its the wild west out here, no one with a gen 4 Sworks is riding in mode 1, and no one gives a hoot. Every fast rider already is running uncorked

If I set the Amflow to Class 3. It will be limited to 45kph. If I set it to NZ Mode. The speed is unlimited like a SurRon. In Boost Mode with the full 1000 watts going ,on a 20kg bike. I have achieved 60kph without trying. I could go faster. But there is just no need to go that fast.

My Shimano EP801 is set to Class 3 when I ride on the road. And the 45kph is more than required. But it's no where near the Amflow. I can wheel spin on concrete with the Amflow.