PART # 2: SHIMANO BRAKE SYSTEM – Orbea Rise Brake System Modification

[Link]

Useful thread, couple of updates for anyone looking to do any of the above.

The rise won't 'properly take a 203 rear disc, with the correct spacer the pad still sits away from.the discs by probably 4mm. Orbea actually state that you can't put a 200 on the back.

To remove the chainring on the ep8 rs (maybe the 2023 model only) you need a lock ring tool for a 42mm ring not the park tool one stated above. That is too big and won't work. Shame as I bought the parktool and 203 disc/spacer for the rear and neither work . Still super useful article. I am putting a 203 just on the front now and seeking a 42mm BB tool.

 

[hind-corners]

Useful thread, couple of updates for anyone looking to do any of the above.

The rise won't 'properly take a 203 rear disc, with the correct spacer the pad still sits away from.the discs by probably 4mm. Orbea actually state that you can't put a 200 on the back.

To remove the chainring on the ep8 rs (maybe the 2023 model only) you need a lock ring tool for a 42mm ring not the park tool one stated above. That is too big and won't work. Shame as I bought the parktool and 203 disc/spacer for the rear and neither work . Still super useful article. I am putting a 203 just on the front now and seeking a 42mm BB tool.

I think lot of us have 203 rear disc without issues. Mine is correctly aligned with shimano adapter with centerlock disc. Maybe they changed something on 2023 model and is your hydro or carbon?

 

[Rod B.]

Useful thread, couple of updates for anyone looking to do any of the above.

The rise won't 'properly take a 203 rear disc, with the correct spacer the pad still sits away from.the discs by probably 4mm. Orbea actually state that you can't put a 200 on the back.

To remove the chainring on the ep8 rs (maybe the 2023 model only) you need a lock ring tool for a 42mm ring not the park tool one stated above. That is too big and won't work. Shame as I bought the parktool and 203 disc/spacer for the rear and neither work . Still super useful article. I am putting a 203 just on the front now and seeking a 42mm BB tool.

Link,

I can confirm with 100% certainty that a 203mm rotor will fit on an Orbea Rise Carbon for the 2020-2022 year models. I ran a 203mm rotor off of the back of my Rise for 4,800 Km and had no issues. This also applies to the H series alloy models for 2022.

Here is a picture of my Rise with 203mm brake rotor. Note the clearance between the brake rotor and chain stay.

Here is a picture of my Orbea Rise Carbon with a 203mm Shimano rotor on the rear and 220mm rotor on the front.

Link, 2020-2022 Rise models all come with a Shimano EP800 RS motor which requires a lock ring removal tool, such as the Park Tool LRT-2. Depending upon your 2023 Rise model, it will come with either a Shimano EP801 motor or Shimano EP600 motor.

I am not familiar with the EP801 or EP600 motor and therefore I cannot comment on which lock ring removal tool the EP801 or EP600 uses.

I have not had the opportunity to work on a 2023 Rise and therefore cannot comment on whether a 203mm rotor will work on the rear of a 2023 Rise H or M series. However, the 2023 Rise Blue Papers for both the H series alloy and M series carbon state that a 203mm brake rotor will fit on the rear.

Link, I'd like to help you with your brake fitment issue. In your statement which I've listed in red below, you mention both a 203mm rotor and a 200mm brake rotor. Shimano produces a 203mm brake rotor and SRAM produces a 200mm brake rotor. The two brake rotor sizes require different brake caliper adapters. If you mix the two with incorrect brake caliper adapters, you will have fitment issues.

The Rise uses 180mm brake caliper post mounts on the rear triangle. Therefore, if you are increasing your rotor size from 180mm to a 200mm SRAM brake rotor, you must use a 20mm brake caliper spacer adapter. If you are increasing your brake rotor size to a 203mm Shimano brake rotor, you must use a 23mm brake caliper spacer adapter.

" The rise won't 'properly take a 203 rear disc, with the correct spacer the pad still sits away from the discs by probably 4mm. Orbea actually state that you can't put a 200 on the back."

 

[Link]

the disc fits no issue, it's that the pad sits a few mm too high so it will wear with a groove. This is using the 20mm spacer from Shimano you mentioned in the article.

In terms of the crank nut, on the 2023 its now a 42mm OD 16 cut out. super annoying, what is needed is something like this

Park Tool BBT-59.3 Bottom Bracket Tool - 16 Notch - 39-42mm​

however that one is not deep enough to clear the axle, i 3d printed my own tool and it worked, however a metal version would be good if i can find one that fits, they must exist as dealers must use something

 

[Link]

looks like i need a ep801 = TL-FC 41

 

[Rod B.]

the disc fits no issue, it's that the pad sits a few mm too high so it will wear with a groove. This is using the 20mm spacer from Shimano you mentioned in the article.

In terms of the crank nut, on the 2023 its now a 42mm OD 16 cut out. super annoying, what is needed is something like this

Park Tool BBT-59.3 Bottom Bracket Tool - 16 Notch - 39-42mm​

however that one is not deep enough to clear the axle, i 3d printed my own tool and it worked, however a metal version would be good if i can find one that fits, they must exist as dealers must use something

Link,

From your description, it's possible you are using the incorrect brake caliper adapter. What size brake rotor are you trying to run on your Rise, i.e., 200mm or 203mm? If I know this, I can give you the correct brake caliper adapter part number.

It's important to first know that the Orbea Rise uses 180mm Post mounts on the rear chain stay. 180mm refers to the length/height of the post mounts.

Seen in the picture is my Orbea Rise M20 with 180mm rear brake caliper post mounts. A Shimano 203mm brake rotor is pictured. Also seen in the picture is a 23mm brake caliper adapter which is mounted underneath the brake caliper. The 23mm brake caliper adapter raises the height of the caliper to 203mm.

180mm Rise post mount, plus 23mm brake caliper adapter = 203mm caliper height to match the 203mm brake rotor size.

200mm Brake Rotor:
If you wish to go with a SRAM 200mm brake rotor, you would need to raise the height of your brake caliper to 200mm. Since the post mounts on your Rise are 180mm in height, you would need to raise your caliper height an additional 20mm to match the height of the 200mm rotor size.
180mm post mount + 20mm brake caliper adapter = 200mm caliper height

Depicted below is a SRAM "20P" brake caliper adapter. The SRAM 20P brake caliper adapter, SRAM part # 00.5318.007.004, is the correct caliper adapter to use if you wished to use a 200mm, rear brake rotor on your Rise.

203mm Brake Rotor:
If you wish to go with a Shimano 203mm brake rotor, you would need to raise the brake caliper to 203mm in height. The post mounts are 180mm in height. Therefore you need to add an additional 23mm of caliper height to match the 203mm brake rotor.
180mm post mount + 23mm brake caliper adapter = 203mm caliper height

Depicted in the photo below is a 23mm, Shimano brake caliper adapter. The 23mm brake caliper adapter, Shimano part # SM-MA-F203P/PM is the correct brake caliper adapter to use if you wish to use a 203mm rear brake rotor on your Rise.

Important Note:
All brake caliper adapters are directional. They must be mounted in the correct orientation/direction. If the caliper adapter is mounted incorrectly, it will incorrectly space the height of your brake caliper and brake pads. An incorrectly spaced brake caliper may possibly damage the brake pads, or it may cause the brake rotor to severely rub or bottom out against your brake caliper.

A direction arrow is painted on all caliper adapters to insure the caliper adapter is mounted correctly. The easiest way to remember which way the arrow points is this:

For the front fork, the arrow always points up towards the handlebar.

For the rear brake caliper, the arrow always points towards the front of the bike.

I hope this helps you. if you have any questions, feel free to ask or if you would like, send me a private message.

Be safe,
Rod

 

[Link]

Wow, that is really good of you to take the time to assist. Thanks !!

I have checked the part number, I have the PM adapter. However I am going to refit everything and double check as the first fit was with a SRAM 200mm disc. The gap looked more than the 3mm but my gut feel is you are right and I am wrong here .

Thanks again !

 

[rzr]

I didn't see if that info is missing, but basically adapters are +20mm, +23mm, +40mm
(the problem is with 203 or 200mm rotor - there are 2 different sizes)
and of course there is 220mm, which needs +20 or +40mm adapter

• SM-MAF220P/PM (from 180mm to 220mm)
• SM-MAF220P/PL2 (from 200mm to 220mm)
• SM-MAF220P/PL (from 203mm to 220mm)

 

[Schorsch09]

Huh, so I should go for Sm-ma-f203p/pm to update my Shimano rotor from 180 to 203.

It may be a dumb question but isn't that f in the article name meant for front? I couldn't find an r variant. does that F stand for something completely different or should work for front and rear wheel?

 

[Rod B.]

Huh, so I should go for Sm-ma-f203p/pm to update my Shimano rotor from 180 to 203.

It may be a dumb question but isn't that f in the article name meant for front? I couldn't find an r variant. does that F stand for something completely different or should work for front and rear wheel?

Schorsch,

I have posted at the end of this message a screen capture taken from Shimano's website which explains how Shimano goes about numbering their brake caliper adapters.

I will also answer your question regarding the correct caliper adapter you should use for a 203mm rotor below. This will be a detailed response, so you and others will better understand the type and what size caliper adapter you should buy for any size brake rotor or caliper mount.

To start off, the short answer to your question is Yes, the "F" refers to front. However, the use of "F" for a front caliper adapter is not entirely accurate. Caliper adapters with the letter "F" can also be used on either the front or rear of the bike depending upon the brake caliper mounting system the bike manufactuer has used.

Rear Brakes: When disc brake systems first began to appear on mountain bikes in the late 1990's, bicycle manufacturers used a wide assortment of mounting designs in which to mount brake calipers to the rear triangle, i.e. side frame bracket mount, post mount, etc.

Because of this mish mash of designs, a confusing assortment of brake caliper adapters had to be designed. For the consumer, trying to decipher which caliper adapter was required for a given type of brake application was headache inducing.

Front Brakes: Fork manufacturers such as Fox and Rockshox adopted a post mounting system for brake caliper front brakes. Because post mount was the dominant style of brake caliper mounting for forks, Shimano identified it's post mount caliper adapters as front fork use.

HOWEVER......Over the years, mountain bike manufactuerers have gravitated towards using the "Post Mount" style of brake caliper mounting for both the front and rear brakes. Therefore, on bikes which have a post mount rear brake caliper mounting system, you can use brake caliper adapters marked for "F" front fork use also on the rear of the bike.

Unfortunately, bike frame and fork manufacturers have not adopted a universal standard for brake caliper "Post Mount" lug size/height. Nowadays, the majority of bike frame manufacturers use a 180mm post mount lug for the rear triangle brake caliper mount. However, this is not written in stone and some frames may have something other than a 180mm post mount size/height.

In regards to front fork post mount lug size/jheight, it pretty much dpends upon the fork manufacturer and fork size. As an example, pre-2022 Fox 34 forks used to use a 160mm post mount height. Fox has since adopted a 180mm post mount standard across it's line of 34, 36 and 38 forks. On the other hand, Rockshox uses a 180mm post mount on the Pike and Lyrik and a 200mm post mount on the more robust ZEB.

As a general rule, if a mountain bike uses a "Post Mount" lug system for mounting brake calipers to the front fork and rear triangle, it will use a brake caliper mounting adapter which will look similar to this in design:

Which size caliper mounting adapter a person will use depends on two things:

1. Size of the post mount height
2. Size of the brake rotor

a. As an example, a bike came from the factory with a Fox 36 fork and a 180mm Shimano front brake rotor. The Fox 36 uses a post mount height/size of 180mm. Since the 180mm post mount and 180mm rotor are the same size, no brake caliper adapter is required.

b. As an example, a bike owner wants to use a 203mm Shimano brake rotor on his front brake. The bike has a Fox 36 fork. Because the Fox 36 has a post mount size of 180mm, the brake caliper must be raised in height 23mm to accomodate the 203mm brake rotor. 180mm post mount + 23mm = 203mm. Therefore a 23mm post mount brake caliper adapter is required.

c. As an example, a bike owner wants to install 200mm SRAM brake rotors on the font and rear of his bike. The bike has a Rockshox Lyrik front fork which has 180mm post mount. The bike manufacturer has set the bike up with 180mm "Post Mount" on the rear triangle. Because the bike has 180mm front and rear post mount, the owner will need to raise the front and rear brake calipers 20mm in height. 180mm post mount + 20mm = 200mm. Therefore two 20mm post mount brake caliper adapters will be required.

d. As an example, a bike owner wants to install a 220mm Shimano brake rotor on his front brake. The bike has a Fox 36 fork. Because the Fox 36 has a post mount size of 180mm, the brake caliper must be raised in height 40 mm to accomodate the 220mm brake rotor. 180mm post mount + 40mm = 220mm. Therefore a 40mm post mount brake caliper adapter is required.

e. As an example, a bike owner wants to install a 220mm Shimano brake rotor on his front brake. The bike has a Rockshox ZEB. Because the Rockshox ZEB has a post mount size of 200mm, the brake caliper must be raised in height 20 mm to accomodate the 220mm brake rotor. 200mm post mount + 20mm = 220mm. Therefore a 20mm post mount brake caliper adapter is required.

The larger the height of the brake caliper adapter, the longer the bolts must be in order to bolt the caliper and brake caliper adapter to the post mount lugs. Additionally, when you increase the size of the brake rotor, this also increases the rotational stress placed upon the brake caliper adapter mounting bolts which occurs when the brake caliper clamps hard onto the rotating brake rotor.

To lower the stress loads placed upon brake caliper adapter mounting bolts, brake system manufacturers use a different style of "Post Mount" in situations where the caliper is raised 40mm in height, i.e. Fox 36 fork and 220mm brake rotor. The 40mm caliper adapter is seen depicted below and utilizes four caliper mounting bolts instead of the standard two mounting bolts. The purpose of the adapter is to significantly shorten the length of the caliper adapter mounting bolts. The design affords a much stronger brake mount and offers less chance of shearing off a caliper mounting bolt under hard braking.

below is depicted an explanation of how Shimano numbers the brake caliper adapters it produces.

I hope you and others find this information useful.

Be safe,
Rod

 

[Brent F.]

Howdy! I'm a little late to the party but I just got a 2024 Rise H30 and after a couple rides I am wanting to upgrade the brakes. I've read through this post a few times and appreciate all of the info. I've attached a screenshot of my cart where I think I have selected all of the correct parts for the easiest upgrade. Just hoping for some confirmation that I've got it right! Thanks again

 

[Rod B.]

Howdy! I'm a little late to the party but I just got a 2024 Rise H30 and after a couple rides I am wanting to upgrade the brakes. I've read through this post a few times and appreciate all of the info. I've attached a screenshot of my cart where I think I have selected all of the correct parts for the easiest upgrade. Just hoping for some confirmation that I've got it right! Thanks again
View attachment 159338

Brent,
I went online to confirm which fork came with the 2024 Rise H30. Online info is showing that the 2024 Rise H30 came with a Marzocchi Bomber Z2, 140mm travel fork. This fork has 160mm brake post mounts. My response will be based on the Marzocchi Bomber Z2. If your Rise does not have this specific fork, please let me know which fork you have so I can verify you are buying the correct brake caliper adapter for the front fork.

I checked your parts list, and you have the correct parts in your shopping cart. There will be a small bit of fluid loss attaching the new rear brake lever and caliper to the Rise's rear brake hose. You should add a 100Ml bottle of Shimano mineral oil brake fluid to your shopping cart.

If this is going to be your first attempt at a brake swap, I can go into further detail on other considerations if you would like. As an example, do you need a Shimano brake bleed kit? If the front brake hose is too long for your 140mm fork, what parts do you need to shorten the brake hose?

If you live near Orange County Ca., I would be happy to help you out and show you how to do the install. If you have any questions or expereince any issues during the install, etc., feel free to send me a private message and I'll help you out.

Be safe,
Rod

 

[Brent F.]

Brent,
I went online to confirm which fork came with the 2024 Rise H30. Online info is showing that the 2024 Rise H30 came with a Marzocchi Bomber Z2, 140mm travel fork. This fork has 160mm brake post mounts. My response will be based on the Marzocchi Bomber Z2. If your Rise does not have this specific fork, please let me know which fork you have so I can verify you are buying the correct brake caliper adapter for the front fork.

I checked your parts list, and you have the correct parts in your shopping cart. There will be a small bit of fluid loss attaching the new rear brake lever and caliper to the Rise's rear brake hose. You should add a 100Ml bottle of Shimano mineral oil brake fluid to your shopping cart.

If this is going to be your first attempt at a brake swap, I can go into further detail on other considerations if you would like. As an example, do you need a Shimano brake bleed kit? If the front brake hose is too long for your 140mm fork, what parts do you need to shorten the brake hose?

If you live near Orange County Ca., I would be happy to help you out and show you how to do the install. If you have any questions or expereince any issues during the install, etc., feel free to send me a private message and I'll help you out.

Be safe,
Rod

Thank you Rod! It is indeed the Marzocchi fork on the bike so I went ahead and placed the order for my parts. I'm located in Northern Michigan but appreciate the offer for help and all of the detailed info you've provided on this forum. This will indeed be my first rodeo but I have some buddies at my LBS who will be helping me do the swap itself.
Cheers,
Brent

 

[Rod B.]

Thank you Rod! It is indeed the Marzocchi fork on the bike so I went ahead and placed the order for my parts. I'm located in Northern Michigan but appreciate the offer for help and all of the detailed info you've provided on this forum. This will indeed be my first rodeo but I have some buddies at my LBS who will be helping me do the swap itself.
Cheers,
Brent

Brent, that's great news. The process is fairly easy, but for a first timer it's nice to have knowledgable friends on standby.

The front brake assembly will come pre-bled with a universal length of brake hose. Shimano factory typically makes the hose length a bit long so it will universally fit a wide range of bikes with differing fork lengths and handlebar widths. Because your bike has a Marzocchi 34 with 140mm of travel, the Shimano factory brake hose length will likely be a bit too long and floppy. A brake hose that is too long and floppy can be easily snagged by things during loading and unloading of the bike, trail brush, etc.

It's a simple process to shorten the front brake hose however, you likely need to do a re-bleed using a bleep cup after the brake hose has been shortened and installed. If you do decide to shorten the hose you will need a new hose barb and olive designed for BH-90 hose which comes with the M6100/M6120 brake package. You will also need a sharp razor to trim the hose. Your local bike shop will have the barb and olive in stock.

Note to self..........make sure the brake lever's rubber boot is slid onto the hose before you tighten the brake hose compression nut. Ask me how I know....

Here's a video explaining how to trim a brake hose that is too long.


In the past I've used various ways to organize my bike's brake hose and cable housing to make them rattle free when banging down the trail. Zip ties work, heat shrink tubing works, but lately I've been using these combo cable clips which you can buy off of Amazon. They are easy to install, work well to reduce hose and cable rattle, and they stay put.

My current bike with hose trimed to a proper length and clips installed to reduce rattle.

 

[vladej]

Hi guys,
It's time to change the brake rotors on my Rise M20 my(2021). I have an upgraded front rotor Shimano RT-MT800 203mm CL and a stock rear rotor Shimano SM-RT64-M 180mm CL.
Today I wanted to order a spare set, and I don't know exactly what CL type I have to order. External or internal?
Probably the front 203mm rotor is external CL and the rear is internal?

What type of rear rotor with a magnet do you use for the replacement of the original SM-RT64-M ?

Best regards,
Vlado

 

[BAh30]

Howdy! I'm a little late to the party but I just got a 2024 Rise H30 and after a couple rides I am wanting to upgrade the brakes. I've read through this post a few times and appreciate all of the info. I've attached a screenshot of my cart where I think I have selected all of the correct parts for the easiest upgrade. Just hoping for some confirmation that I've got it right! Thanks again
View attachment 159338

All you need to do is replace the 2 piston calipers with the 4 piston calipers. I used the same levers and hose.

 

[BAh30]

Hi guys,
It's time to change the brake rotors on my Rise M20 my(2021). I have an upgraded front rotor Shimano RT-MT800 203mm CL and a stock rear rotor Shimano SM-RT64-M 180mm CL.
Today I wanted to order a spare set, and I don't know exactly what CL type I have to order. External or internal?
Probably the front 203mm rotor is external CL and the rear is internal?

What type of rear rotor with a magnet do you use for the replacement of the original SM-RT64-M ?

Best regards,
Vlado

I used a bosch rear 6 bolt magnet that attaches to the rotor bolts

 

[Rod B.]

Hi guys,
It's time to change the brake rotors on my Rise M20 my(2021). I have an upgraded front rotor Shimano RT-MT800 203mm CL and a stock rear rotor Shimano SM-RT64-M 180mm CL.
Today I wanted to order a spare set, and I don't know exactly what CL type I have to order. External or internal?
Probably the front 203mm rotor is external CL and the rear is internal?

What type of rear rotor with a magnet do you use for the replacement of the original SM-RT64-M ?

Best regards,
Vlado

Vlado,

Did you want your rear brakes to remain stock with a rear 180mm brake rotor or, do you want to upgrade your rear braking performance and go with a slightly larger 203mm rotor? I'll provide details on both options at the end of this message.

There are two types of centerlock brake rotor locking rings in use on bikes. They are the "Internal Lock Ring" and "External Lock Ring."

External Lock Ring - Note serrations are on on the outside diameter of the lock ring

Internal Lock Ring - Note the serrations are on the inside diameter of the lock ring

Both type of locking rings thread into the hub. They serve the same purpose of securing the brake rotor to the hub. However, the choice on whether to use an external or internal centerlock rotor lock ring depends on your brake rotor, wheel hub and fork/frame compatibility.

Generally speaking, most mountain bikes, including the Orbea Rise, which use a 15mm/20mm axle will use an "External" type locking ring. The Shimano RT-EM810 magnetic eBike brake rotor is designed to be used with an external locking ring

While internal locking rings can be used on mountain bikes, you will usually see the use of "Internal" lock rings on road or gravel type bikes where space at the rear hub is limited due to frame drop out design, hub end caps, cassette type, etc.

The tool used to remove a lock ring is different for each type of locking ring.

My 2021 Orbea Rise M20 with 203mm front and rear centerlock brake rotors

Because you are currently using a Shimano RT-MT800 brake rotor on the front of your Rise. I'm going to assume you want to use the same type of brake rotor on the rear of your bike. The matching rear brake rotor with magnetic pickup is the "Shimano RT-EM810" brake rotor.

Shimano "RT-EM810" centerlock brake rotor with magnet

If you wish to increase the size of the rear brake rotor, you will need to use a brake caliper adapter. The 2021 Orbea Rise uses 180mm brake caliper post mounts on the rear triangle. This means that if you use a 180mm brake rotor, the caliper will bolt directly to the 180mm post mounts and spacing between the brake rotor and caliper will be perfect. If you wish to install a 203mm brake rotor, you will need raise the height of the brake caliper 23mm to fit the larger 203mm brake rotor.

A relatively cheap and easy way to increase braking performance is to enlarge the brake rotor, i.e. go from 180mm to 203mm or 220mm. A 203mm brake rotor will fit on the rear of the Orbea Rise without fitment issues.

203mm brake rotor on rear of 2021 Orbea Rise. No fear of rubbing.

If you decide to increase the size of the rear brake from 180mm to 203mm on your Rise, you will need to raise the height of the caliper to match the increased size of the 203mm brake rotor. You do this through the use of a brake caliper adapter, which raises the height of the caliper off of the post mounts.

if a 203mm brake rotor is used on the rear of the Rise. The brake caliper must be raised an additional 23mm in height off the 180mm post mounts in order to accomodate the larger size of the 203mm brake rotor (180mm + 23mm = 203mm).

The appropriate Shimano brake caliper adapter is a "SM-MA-F203P/PM" if you are increasing the brake rotor size to 203mm.

Some brake caliper adapter manufacturers will list the caliper rise height on their adapters. I prefer this labeling method as it's less confusing than Shimano's parts labeling method. If I know my post mount size, it's easy to determine the correct caliper adapter size. I simply subtract the post mount size from the brake rotor size to determine the correct rise height. As an example, the Rockshox ZEB uses a 200mm post mount. If I wish to use a 220mm brake rotor, I will need an adapter with a 20mm rise height (220mm brake rotor - 200mm post mount = 20mm adapter).

Important Note: All brake caliper adapters will have an directional arrow printed on the caliper adapter. When an adapter is used on the rear of a bike, the arrow will always point to the front of the bike. When a caliper adapter is used on a front fork, the arrow will always point upwards.

TRP Brake Caliper Adapter with 23mm rise height printed on the caliper.

CorrecShimano brake caliper adapter for use on the Orbea Rise rear brake assembly, where a 203mm brake rotor is used.

I hope you find this information useful

Be safe,
Rod