Levo Gen 4 Levo Gen 4 - Discussion Thread for 8th April launch

[TorAtle]

Power requirement on a tough climb quickly exceed what the standard "full fat" motors available today (not including DJI Avinox) can output, unless you find a crawling speed acceptable.

As the motors now goes beyond 600 watts, the max assistance in % also need to be increased. DJI chose 8x or 800%.

I find the comparison with cars inaccurate as todays cars have an abundance of torque and power, especially electric cars. Not so on emtbs.

The benchmark is set. 1000 Watts, 120 Nm, 800% assistance, the motor weighs 2.5 kg and as per all the reviews - the motor control is excellent. This is what Spesh is up against. Lets hope the new Levo will not disappoint, it's going to be here for at least 3 years.

 

[James_C]

Just received from spesh mailing list

 

[Eduardoramundo]

Is this the charging port?

 

[ckkone]

Yes

 

[AussieRuss]

Good to see the sneak peak pics are up on Specializeds page. Charge port is no longer hidden. Or is that where the extender plugs in?
Looks like the controller is cable run again.

 

[MonsterMX]

Some teasing

 

[Borut]

Expert

 

[Borut]

Comp

 

[Ferlic]

 

[Ferlic]

 

[Ferlic]

 

[Fangs2k]

Come the release date, I can’t help but think this cartoon will be pretty apt given the ‘no wireless controller is a deal breaker’ type chat!

 

[emtbeast]

That was with the first firmware.
Now the graph from the same magazine is this:

View attachment 157104
Lets wait for the line of the new Levo….

Sorry, but the guys saying the Levo could provide more torque at lower cadences are probably on to something. The guys from Specialized also pointed in one of their last year interviews they are working on a good cadence curve, also Brose motor was always good at that. This low down torque is mostly based on the motor mechanicals, not software-the larger the big internal motor gear the more torque down under there is, the previous Giant motor was/is also a good example.

To clear things a bit, the graph u posted is not the correct graph to compare to the other one:

The graph you are posting is Power based at almost(75-80) fixed Cadence input:

》Bike power output(vertical) based on Rider power input(horizontal)《.

The previous graph, the one you are answering to is Cadence based on fixed Power input:

》Bike power in %(vertical) based on Rider Cadence input(horizontal)《.


Shortly, the base for the graph is different so you can't compare it, one is a so called Power Curve the other ia a Cadence Curve.

Unfortunately Velomotion Magazin didn't include the Cadence Curve Graph in their video done after the Amflow software update, I don't know why, maybe they could provide one if asked.

 

[Zimmerframe]

It’s definitely not as svelte as some other brands……….

View attachment 157191

A rough comparison with a couple of random bikes .... (scales are not accurate ..)

 

[Zimmerframe]

So in theory ..... they could do this now ??

 

[Moderator]

New thread created here as too few people are reading back and repeat posting previous information.

Original thread is here if anyone wants to look back :

Levo Gen 4 - Levo Gen 4 Rumours and some facts...

So come on, let’s have them. Rumours only and no truths please, so the thread doesn’t get taken down 😉

www.emtbforums.com

 

[ah1]

Will there be issues with the motor bottom clearance? I see that it's protruding further forward, so I'm assuming if I hit stuff with my BB on my Levo SL (which I sometimes do), the impact will be harder/sooner with the gen4?
(Someone else posted this photo comparison of the motors before the old thread got shut down. )

 

[Myke]

This should be close to the color of the blue s-works one:

 

[Georgedukesa]

This should be close to the color of the blue s-works one:

Looks pretty cool also heard that they are releasing way more red than blue so 25% blue 75% red split DONT QUOTE ME could just be initial deliveries then open the floor gates but if its the roll out split I’m gonna grab a blue , the less of my colour the better (Denlist thought patterns)

 

[Power1tobe]

Power requirement on a tough climb quickly exceed what the standard "full fat" motors available today (not including DJI Avinox) can output, unless you find a crawling speed acceptable.

As the motors now goes beyond 600 watts, the max assistance in % also need to be increased. DJI chose 8x or 800%.

I find the comparison with cars inaccurate as todays cars have an abundance of torque and power, especially electric cars. Not so on emtbs.

The benchmark is set. 1000 Watts, 120 Nm, 800% assistance, the motor weighs 2.5 kg and as per all the reviews - the motor control is excellent. This is what Spesh is up against. Lets hope the new Levo will not disappoint, it's going to be here for at least 3 years.

That is a one dimensional comparison of power (1 bench mark), you are looking at power to weight ratio of motor. So if max power is your only concern then DJI motor already wins in a drag race up a flat fire road. I still refer back to the video above with the power curves and the authors final comments. My concerns are shared, how power relates to the reliability of the bike (motor/drivetrain). How many people ride their MTBs (not eMTBs) at a continuous 600+ watts, let alone 1000 for 5/10/30 min clips? I do believe that with 1000watts of power we are hitting the upper limits for what I would call NORMAL MTBing... sure shuttling up a fire road at 20+mph to DH gets you more riding ... but who needs a 1000watts going down? Back to my point, what does 800-1000 watts up a fire road do to my chain? do I replace it once a month? I see so many people on here complaining about reliability issues with EMTBs, and to me as an engineer i find it troubling. What did you think would happen as they push the limits, you would get more reliable bikes?

My hope is the new Levo is a balance of power and ride performance and added reliability (time will tell) ... Regardless what's great about this moment in time for the MTB community is the amazing selection of bikes that exists... basically a bike for everyone... so buy your favorite one and ride!

 

[Ou812]

Turd Brown Bowling Ball is the best colour that’s the one I’d go for.

 

[Georgedukesa]

That is a one dimensional comparison of power (1 bench mark), you are looking at power to weight ratio of motor. So if max power is your only concern then DJI motor already wins in a drag race up a flat fire road. I still refer back to the video above with the power curves and the authors final comments. My concerns are shared, how power relates to the reliability of the bike (motor/drivetrain). How many people ride their MTBs (not eMTBs) at a continuous 600+ watts, let alone 1000 for 5/10/30 min clips? I do believe that with 1000watts of power we are hitting the upper limits for what I would call NORMAL MTBing... sure shuttling up a fire road at 20+mph to DH gets you more riding ... but who needs a 1000watts going down? Back to my point, what does 800-1000 watts up a fire road do to my chain? do I replace it once a month? I see so many people on here complaining about reliability issues with EMTBs, and to me as an engineer i find it troubling. What did you think would happen as they push the limits, you would get more reliable bikes?

My hope is the new Levo is a balance of power and ride performance and added reliability (time will tell) ... Regardless what's great about this moment in time for the MTB community is the amazing selection of bikes that exists... basically a bike for everyone... so buy your favorite one and ride!

You right

 

[Ribinrobin]

Here we are again.

 

[Myke]

Looks pretty cool also heard that they are releasing way more red than blue so 25% blue 75% red split DONT QUOTE ME could just be initial deliveries then open the floor gates but if its the roll out split I’m gonna grab a blue , the less of my colour the better (Denlist thought patterns)

The 75/25 ratio seems to match what I know. I like the blue but I am not sure on a mountain bike - really nice on a road bike though.

They must believe the red is going to be more popular.

 

[David666]

I don’t know if this is accurate but I tried to evaluate Levo weights without battery to know if a Levo G4 with a smaller battery could be close to a SL but it seems not as basically it would weight 2.5 kg more.

 

[Madden126]

Are we able to get this thread to 100 pages until next Tuesday?

 

[MonsterMX]

You forgot 1 kg difference in motor, Gen 4 has Fox 38 (+250g?) and Gravity font tire (+250g), maybe something more?

 

[singletrackminded]

I don’t know if this is accurate but I tried to evaluate Levo weights without battery to know if a Levo G4 with a smaller battery could be close to a SL but it seems not as basically it would weight 2.5 kg more.
View attachment 157301

Good work, the smaller battery is rumored to be 600W not 700W.

 

[MISTER HYDE]

Back to my point, what does 800-1000 watts up a fire road do to my chain? do I replace it once a month? I see so many people on here complaining about reliability issues with EMTBs, and to me as an engineer i find it troubling. What did you think would happen as they push the limits, you would get more reliable bikes?

In general I think it's time to propose a specific transmission for E-MTB. True, SRAM had tried years ago but the time was not ripe, now with the greater diffusion of E-MTB with more power/torque a strong and reliable 10 speed transmission would be better than the 12 speed with the 52 and thin chain, even the 10 sprocket with the speed-block doesn't make much sense.
With the numbers that Specialized does and given that it mounts 99% SRAM, maybe could ask for a specific gear group.

 

[Ou812]

600wh battery and 200wh extender. Wish they would have the option to choose what battery you want, I’d go with the 600wh and buy the extender. The 600wh would be plenty for 90% of my rides, I could slap the extender on for the other 10%. Spesh is basically milking you for more money doing it the way they are!