'Lighter' Gen 5 bikes?

[jgf]

Does anyone have any suggestions for Bosch CX equipped bikes that tend to be on the 'lighter' side? Thinking around the 21 kg range (22kg at the outside)? Had had my eye on the AMFlow bikes but according to them, they currently have no plans for a Canadian release and so the new gen Bosch CX motor is basically my second choice.

I am not an Enduro rider, mostly trails/xcountry.

 

[Rod B.]

Does anyone have any suggestions for Bosch CX equipped bikes that tend to be on the 'lighter' side? Thinking around the 21 kg range (22kg at the outside)? Had had my eye on the AMFlow bikes but according to them, they currently have no plans for a Canadian release and so the new gen Bosch CX motor is basically my second choice.

I am not an Enduro rider, mostly trails/xcountry.

JGF,

I've had multiple different eBikes over the past few years, Orbea Rise (Shimano motor), Pivot Shuttle SL (Fazua motor), Specialized Turbo Levo (Brose motor) and most recently, a Pivot Shuttle AM with Bosch gen 4 motor and 625WH battery. I really like the Bosch drive system, for my riding style, I find it to be much more enjoyable than the other drive systems I've used.

In the past, I've typically set my eBikes up as Enduro orientated bikes which were heavy but more planted on techn ical descents. For the Pivot Shuttle AM build, I intentionally gravitated towards a much lighter "All Mountain" orientated build. To do this, I purchased a Pivot Shuttle AM, Ride SLX/XT model. The Pivot Shuttle AM can come with either a 625WH battery or a 750WH battery. I choose the Ride SLX model because it comes with a 625WH battery which removes weight from the down tube.

I have a very good relationship with my local bike shop (Pro Bike Supply, Newport Beach Ca.) and I was allowed to upgrade the bike's stock suspension (Fox 36 Performance Rhythm fork and Float X Performance rear shock), to a Fox 36 Factory Grip X2 160mm fork and Fox Factory X2 rear shock. I was given a credit for the suspension take offs which offset the cost of the upgraded suspension.

Over the year, I've always tried to buy good quality components for use on my bikes. I like to shop on eBay, Pinkbike, local shop and look for blow out prices on premium parts. It takes time doing this due to budget contraints, cost of the parts, my wife having absolutely no understanding of why I need a part, etc. On the other hand, she has 200 pairs of shoes and I don't understand that either...jus saying....She may read this....

With time, I have accumulated a solid foundation of parts, i.e. T-Type AXS shifting, TRP brakes, Chris King headset, Zipp 3Zero Moto carbon wheels, carbon 160mm cranks, carbon handlebars, etc. The beauty of all this is that it allows me to buy the cheapest base model bike possible, Usually for sale at the cheapest price possible. I can then take my good quality parts and transfer them over to the new bike. By doing this, I can upgrade the new bike and also significantly lighten the bike. I typiclly transfer the new bike's lower grade parts over to my old eBike and sell the bike.

I usually don't really worry too much about the weight of my eBikes. In most instances the heavy weight of an eBike can work in your favor. A heavy bike is a more planted bike on technical descents. On the other hand, a heavy ebike can feel overly dampened and not very flickable. Where's the fun in that? For the Pivot Shuttle AM bike build I especially wanted to get weight off of the front wheel and make the bike fun to toss about. Who doesn't love a good trail kicker ya know.

My Pivot Shuttle AM currently weighs in a 48 pounds. I could reduce the weight even further to around 46 pounds, but I like running a Maxxis 2.5 - 2.6 Assegai front and rear combo. The heavy tires add weight to the bike. I also built my Zipp 3Zero Moto rear wheel with heavy gauge Sapim Race spokes. The heavier guage spokes limit rear spoke wind up when I hit punchy technical rock climbs in boost.

I am extremely happy with the Pivot Shuttle AM. It's a wicked fast bike. It can handle all that I can throw at it. The bike is very flickable and handles really well. It's important to point out that I enjoy rugged technical rock riding. I rarely frequent bike parks so I'm not hitting any big jumps. Range with the 625WH battery is good. I can cover a 25 mile ride with 4,000 feet of climbing.

If you have any questions regarding the Pivot Shuttle AM, shoot me a message.

Be safe,
Rod

 

[whitymon]

We could understand you like the Pivot, still already discussed about it in its dedicated topic (OP can search for it too): too expensive and a joke as it does not use the gen 5 but an outdated motor.

Lots of chances that bosch will soon deliver better firmware on the gen5 and there is upcoming toptube revamp control incoming.

This all does not make the pivot worth at all at the moment and a pretty bad choice for a new buy. It does not mean the bike is bad and people cannot have great moment with it, it is still a great bike but overprice and out of base.

I guess you could get an Orbea Wild very close to what you want with all recent perks and for less money, but for trail/xc I bet you might want to go with the ST version.

Have in mind that no matter what people told you, on trails/xc, the weight penalty is way more felt as less gravity. People also say that weight is good for DH, it depends on you what you ride and how. Tight corner, pop, technical section can be a mess, few kg really does a huge difference no matter what if you ride aggressive stuff.

For example I cannot stand an heavy bike 22+ on my forest Trails/DH, if you like playfulness and a nimble bike, so far there is no real bike out there with a bosch cx motor - at least for me as playful as I want. Some are better than other, I would suggest you to test and try.

Not sure what you are looking for btw. A light full power ebike? Or a light ebike with great power or good range?

 

[jgf]

Thank you for your posts. The main appeal of the new bosch system for me is its silence and a belief that its aftermarket, out of warranty support will be easier/better. I want something that feels/rides like an analog bike, most of my ride time is more forest road style, less mountain descents etc.

Mondraker has a Crafty RR SL that is basically exactly what I'm looking for but of course it is hugely expensive so I'm curious if there are similarish options from other vendors since the Crafty has been literally the only bike I've found that seems to match my wants.

 

[Suns_PSD]

I just don't understand why anyone would need a full power motor for trail/ XC riding.

I ride total gnar, steep up/ down, but no mountains and find a Fazua 60 more than enough both power and battery juice.

I'd buy a lightweight trail oriented mid power e-bike that would weigh around 19 kgs, ready to ride.

Anyways, the Sant Cruz Vala is your best bet to get the Gen5 in a lightweight slightly more trail-oriented build.

GL

 

[jgf]

Power is actually the least of my factors.... the primary factors are sound/ride profile, range, and out of warranty support network. Its the latter that has me leaning towards bosch and the first point focusing in on the cx gen5...

thnx for your input!

 

[JP-NZ]

Power is actually the least of my factors.... the primary factors are sound/ride profile, range, and out of warranty support network. Its the latter that has me leaning towards bosch and the first point focusing in on the cx gen5...

thnx for your input!

Have you considered any bikes with the lighter Bosch SX motor? I'm not sure about its sound though..

 

[Julie_X1]

I just don't understand why anyone would need a full power motor for trail/ XC riding.

I ride total gnar, steep up/ down, but no mountains and find a Fazua 60 more than enough both power and battery juice.

I'd buy a lightweight trail oriented mid power e-bike that would weigh around 19 kgs, ready to ride.

Anyways, the Sant Cruz Vala is your best bet to get the Gen5 in a lightweight slightly more trail-oriented build.

GL

I am an XC/ Trail rider, and having an e-MTB has made mountain biking accessible to me. I agree that the Vala is your best bet for a lighter full-powered e-MTB with a Gen 5 Bosch.

But I would not recommend a 50+ lbs bike for XC/Trail. It will not feel “fun”. Even if sometimes I’d like a bit more power on my SL bike.

I think one of mid-powered SL bikes will be a better platform from which to start and potentially put lighter components on. There are also a couple of e-MTBs that are designed for XC and that are even lighter (Scott Lumen and BMC Fourstroke AMP LT). I saw one of those BMC in a shop and it weighed 36lbs - unfortunately it was not in my size or it’d be in my garage. A lighter bike will also require less motor assistance.

 

[jgf]

Have you considered any bikes with the lighter Bosch SX motor? I'm not sure about its sound though..

Yea, apparently it is still somewhat loud and clattery... similarish to the CX gen 4. That and I really want more than a 400wh battery. Could throw an extender on but Im not keen on extenders since I like having a water bottle.

I still havent ruled the SX out entirely but the cx gen 5 is a super appealing package. It basically has no downsides (some will say "not powerful enough now compared to dji!" but it would have more than enough power for my needs)

 

[JP-NZ]

Santa Cruz Vala fits the bill, Trek should have some new Bosch Gen 5 bikes out very soon

 

[Suns_PSD]

Yea, apparently it is still somewhat loud and clattery... similarish to the CX gen 4. That and I really want more than a 400wh battery. Could throw an extender on but Im not keen on extenders since I like having a water bottle.

I still havent ruled the SX out entirely but the cx gen 5 is a super appealing package. It basically has no downsides (some will say "not powerful enough now compared to dji!" but it would have more than enough power for my needs)

The Fazua 60 is dead quiet, has great feel, is very efficient. The reliability issues are in the past, the product is super well supported (Fazua is owned by Porsche and is currently in 20+ bikes). Also the current 430 watt battery is being replaced soon by a 480 watt battery of the same weight/ space.

This is an ideal e- trail-bike. Pivot Shuttle SL.

Shuttle SL

A masterclass in lightweight power and precision, the Shuttle SL blurs the line between analog and electric. Its Fazua Ride 60 system delivers a seamless, natural assist that keeps the ride lively and responsive, while the ultra-refined carbon chassis and progressive geometry turn every climb...

global.pivotcycles.com

 

[irie]

...
the cx gen 5 is a super appealing package.
...

This ^^^

If it were possible I would pay to have this motor installed in my 2022 alloy Trek Rail, but not worth buying another bike just for the motor ...

 

[NervousFan]

I think that the German company Sporttechnik can meet your expectations. You can freely choose between SX and CX engines, as well as batteries from 400Wh to 800Wh. You will definitely find something for yourself.

M1 Sporttechnik and their 2025 line-up

 

[Dax]

Whyte Elyte Evo also meets the criteria.

But I’m with @Suns_PSD, just buy a SL for tails/xc. Personally I’d go for the Elyte 150 for trail riding. It’s a great all round package, the Bosch SX is much better than the other lightweight motors (ok, I haven’t ridden the TQ) and the bike rides brilliantly.

It’s easy to get drawn into the internet BS about motors and choose a bike based on motor/battery, losing sight of the fact that two bikes with the same motor can ride very differently, or that some noise that the internet deems appalling is fine when you’re riding along chatting with your mates and enjoying the scenery. Go demo some bikes and see what works for you.

 

[cykelk]

Thank you for your posts. The main appeal of the new bosch system for me is its silence and a belief that its aftermarket, out of warranty support will be easier/better. I want something that feels/rides like an analog bike, most of my ride time is more forest road style, less mountain descents etc.

Mondraker has a Crafty RR SL that is basically exactly what I'm looking for but of course it is hugely expensive so I'm curious if there are similarish options from other vendors since the Crafty has been literally the only bike I've found that seems to match my wants.

Yea, apparently it is still somewhat loud and clattery... similarish to the CX gen 4. That and I really want more than a 400wh battery. Could throw an extender on but Im not keen on extenders since I like having a water bottle.

I still havent ruled the SX out entirely but the cx gen 5 is a super appealing package. It basically has no downsides (some will say "not powerful enough now compared to dji!" but it would have more than enough power for my needs)

I own a Heckler SL and a Vala so I'll share a few opinions here
- If Fazua supplies Canada via QBP like in the US, supply and support is easy. I challenge your "belief" that Bosch will be better. There have been periods of DU supply crunch while Fazua deals with motor failures, but outside of that, parts have been easy to come by in my experience.
- The Vala is one of the lightest Gen5 bikes, and it still feels and rides like an eMTB. A good one, for sure, but the Heckler SL remains the "rides like a bike" benchmark for me.
- The Gen5 motor is pretty quiet descending but not under power. It's got more pleasant sound than my old EP8, sort of like high winds whistling through the forest, but it's not quiet like Fazua / TQ.

All in all what I'm saying is, Bosch systems (SX or Gen5 CX) are great systems, but aren't your solution if your priority really is low noise and analog-bike feel. You'll be better off with a TQ or Fazua bike.

 

[whitymon]

Yeah TQ to me is really low noise, I could forget I have it. Fazua is still not yet known for its reliability, might be better now or tomorrow.

Depending on the build/bike 50nm might be very limited with the TQ so, on my nearly 22kg emtb - burly wheel & tyres - this is not helping much outside turbo. So be careful also for what you wish for.