Are Electric Mountain Bikes Ruining Trail Systems?

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I thin
JimBo said:
Today, Steve Graepel and Gear Patrol have offered up perhaps the best post about eMTBs' legal status in the US that I've read yet.

And over the past few years, I've read a few... hundred!
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I think that the author missed on a couple of points; I remember in the mid-1970’s that wheels on a game carrier weren’t even allowed in designated wilderness; the 1984 date feels like an attempt to rewrite history.

Second point is that the US Forest Service has the discretion to apply the electric bicycle consumer designation in non-wilderness public land. They don’t, because of the wording of Executive Order 11644.

What the government agencies can do is to treat eBikes as a special class of motorized and open trails after NEPA review. Or simply push a piece of paper in front of a president who will sign anything, because the prohibition against eBikes on BLM land is not legislation but executive order (signed by Nixon in 1972)
 
RobNevyn said:
Interesting and level headed article, I feel for the US guys & girls, here in Australia we don't seem to get a lot of grief from regulators, the only issue we seem to have here is the 25Kph (15.5 mph) speed cap.
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I’d trade my 4.5 mph powered speed advantage away right away to be back riding in Sedona again.
 
Here in New Zealand we have a 32kph limit and I haven't struck much issue on existing trails other than the brilliantly insightful "that's cheating" jibe. Where it could get interesting is on Department of Conservation (like the BLM I guess?) land where their position is that ebikes should only be allowed on "easy" tracks with a rationale that people who ride ebikes are inexperienced, old, unfit or possibly disabled and shouldn't be going into the back country - both to protect themselves and not spoil it for the "serious"riders. The fact is any biker could have mechanical or medical problems on any ride, so I get the feeling the real agenda is to keep this land for "real bikers", while the irony is the very same government department has used ebikes for their staff to move maintenance gear along the tracks!
 
Quote from NZ Government policy paper-
"As electric bikes are typically used by those less fit or physically able, higher grade biking trails may not be well suited to the user." While I appreciate the concern, shouldn't the rider make the call on what suits them? I don't ride black trails at the bike park because I'm an average downhill rider at best, but if they had their way I'd only be allowed on the green ones!
 
davarello said:
Quote from NZ Government policy paper-
"As electric bikes are typically used by those less fit or physically able, higher grade biking trails may not be well suited to the user." While I appreciate the concern, shouldn't the rider make the call on what suits them? I don't ride black trails at the bike park because I'm an average downhill rider at best, but if they had their way I'd only be allowed on the green ones!
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That idiotic statement misses a big part of eBikes which is the ability to turn back the clock about 30 years. It is also kind of elitist; in my experience a typical young person can’t climb any extended hill on a bike without horking up a lung; but why shouldn’t the average person have the same pleasure of riding on the trails as the physically gifted?
 
I've only had my emtb for seven weeks, but it has taken me back at least four years to when I didn't have any knee problems. It is brilliant!

I do resent their view that "emtbs are typically ridden by the less fit or (less) physically able". I suppose by my own words I am less physically able, but I still have the same skills. And I still have the same sense not to strand myself by running out of battery (or inner tubes, tools etc)!
 
steve_sordy said:
I've only had my emtb for seven weeks, but it has taken me back at least four years to when I didn't have any knee problems. It is brilliant!

I do resent their view that "emtbs are typically ridden by the less fit or (less) physically able". I suppose by my own words I am less physically able, but I still have the same skills. And I still have the same sense not to strand myself by running out of battery (or inner tubes, tools etc)!
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Right on, ride on! I've actually developed MTB skills in my 50s well beyond what I could do in my 30s, thanks to pedal assist!
 
steve_sordy said:
I've only had my emtb for seven weeks, but it has taken me back at least four years to when I didn't have any knee problems. It is brilliant!

I do resent their view that "emtbs are typically ridden by the less fit or (less) physically able". I suppose by my own words I am less physically able, but I still have the same skills. And I still have the same sense not to strand myself by running out of battery (or inner tubes, tools etc)!
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Exactly. Skills are so much more of a mental game than anything else. Once you got it, it's so much easier to get back to it. The physical part is the harder part to get back as you age
 
"Are Electric Mountain Bikes Ruining Trail Systems?"

And the author never even discussed this? He basically outlined the legal status in the US, I didn't see anything new. Didn't quite get a few things right either, one being it's not 750w peak, it's just 750w. There isn't a limit on peak power. :p
 
Slowroller said:
"Are Electric Mountain Bikes Ruining Trail Systems?"

And the author never even discussed this? He basically outlined the legal status in the US, I didn't see anything new. Didn't quite get a few things right either, one being it's not 750w peak, it's just 750w. There isn't a limit on peak power. :p
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True, he doesn't directly address the title of his post. Maybe he was just trying to get more folks to read it? Note that the URL says, "...are-electric-mountain-bikes-ruining-trail-systems..." That might have been the original headline, too, but using a more controversial title might get more clicks from eMTB opponents, as well as proponents...

What I found most inspiring was this paragraph:

"Pizzi’s last point — and it’s a big one — is to lobby for a change in the classification of motorized to self-propelled. It’s an “if you can’t join them, reinvent yourself” approach that would pull e-MTBs away from the legal definition that’s currently keeping extra watts off managed land. "
 
steve_sordy said:
I've only had my emtb for seven weeks, but it has taken me back at least four years to when I didn't have any knee problems. It is brilliant!

I do resent their view that "emtbs are typically ridden by the less fit or (less) physically able". I suppose by my own words I am less physically able, but I still have the same skills. And I still have the same sense not to strand myself by running out of battery (or inner tubes, tools etc)!
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Exactly, turns out I've been struggling away with an undiagnosed heart condition for years, never getting any fitter and dreading any long climbs, quite apart from having 120kg to lug uphill. Now I can ride 2-3 hours across decent sized hills, the fitness is coming back and my downhill confidence and skills are getting better too. All the motor does is help me keep my HR steady on climbs. Which is more of a risk in the back country - an unfit and/or overconfident rider on a regular bike, or an experienced rider with some motor assist?
 
dirt huffer said:
Exactly. Skills are so much more of a mental game than anything else. Once you got it, it's so much easier to get back to it. The physical part is the harder part to get back as you age
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I've done more riding in the last three months than in the previous five years and I'm clearing terrain I could never ride before, both up and downhill. One hour rides after work regularly stretch to two hours as I try new trails and my skills improve.
 
Whilst I find it threatening to potentially have my access to remote areas limitted due to my physical restrictions, I CAN see some logic in it and have already taken the responsibility of doing so.

I don't want to be that person sitting for days beside a remote piece of single line waiting for a rescue team to walk in / carry me out. There are places where a helicopter retrieval just isn't viable, so next time you blast along your favourite stretch of single line - imagine 4 people carrying your body on a stretcher. Or imagine yourself crawling out.

Ten years ago, I was actively involved in remote area motorbike riding. I had already experienced a difficult extraction from cape york in the wet season, but then I mangled my ankle half way across the simpson dessert and spent 2 days riding out with just one leg that could take my weight. Then 3 years ago I had a relatively minor crash in my own yard that resulted in a helicopter trip ( punctured lung, flail chest , mangled foot) .

Sure, anyone can have a life threatening accident in remote mtb riding - but imagine having to call for a walk in / out medivac because your long term knee injury has just decided to say no.
 
HikerDave said:
That idiotic statement misses a big part of eBikes which is the ability to turn back the clock about 30 years. It is also kind of elitist; in my experience a typical young person can’t climb any extended hill on a bike without horking up a lung; but why shouldn’t the average person have the same pleasure of riding on the trails as the physically gifted?
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Another part of the document essentially says those who are riding under there own power deserve to have some areas to themselves, which is effectively making e-bikers second class riders. What isn't explained is how exactly the ebikers are impacting on the other trail users, other than theoretical crashes that could happen between any combination of ebikes/regular bikes/walkers. I cant help thinking there is an underlying level of elitism mixed with a dash of envy - I'm sure some people I pass on climbs think "lazy, rich w@nker" almost by reflex, easily forgetting their carbon wunderbike cost as much as mine, that they drove to the trail head in their pimped up SUV and last weekend they spent a whole day riding chairlifts at the bike park!
 
Pdoz said:
Whilst I find it threatening to potentially have my access to remote areas limitted due to my physical restrictions, I CAN see some logic in it and have already taken the responsibility of doing so.

I don't want to be that person sitting for days beside a remote piece of single line waiting for a rescue team to walk in / carry me out. There are places where a helicopter retrieval just isn't viable, so next time you blast along your favourite stretch of single line - imagine 4 people carrying your body on a stretcher. Or imagine yourself crawling out.

Ten years ago, I was actively involved in remote area motorbike riding. I had already experienced a difficult extraction from cape york in the wet season, but then I mangled my ankle half way across the simpson dessert and spent 2 days riding out with just one leg that could take my weight. Then 3 years ago I had a relatively minor crash in my own yard that resulted in a helicopter trip ( punctured lung, flail chest , mangled foot) .

Sure, anyone can have a life threatening accident in remote mtb riding - but imagine having to call for a walk in / out medivac because your long term knee injury has just decided to say no.
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Agree, it's all about common sense and thinking worst case scenario. For any back country stuff I ride in a group, and if it's out of cell range we take a locator beacon.
 
davarello said:
Agree, it's all about common sense and thinking worst case scenario. For any back country stuff I ride in a group, and if it's out of cell range we take a locator beacon.
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Just remember, that plb / spot / inreach only works with a decent view of the sky, and without a decent view of the sky that helicopter might not be able to get you out. I remember using my sat phone to call for a helicopter for a mate , it all seemed so easy until branches ( logs) started falling from the sky!
 
JimBo said:
What I found most inspiring was this paragraph:

"Pizzi’s last point — and it’s a big one — is to lobby for a change in the classification of motorized to self-propelled. It’s an “if you can’t join them, reinvent yourself” approach that would pull e-MTBs away from the legal definition that’s currently keeping extra watts off managed land. "
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Semantics. I don't see that making any difference to any agency who controls non motorized trails. How would them being reclassified as "self propelled" help the argument that they are pedal assist bikes? Instead of pretending they're not motorized, Pizzi should instead lobby for a new emtb class that mirrors our EU friends, and point to them as proof that ebikes don't cause problems.
 
Slowroller said:
Semantics. I don't see that making any difference to any agency who controls non motorized trails. How would them being reclassified as "self propelled" help the argument that they are pedal assist bikes? Instead of pretending they're not motorized, Pizzi should instead lobby for a new emtb class that mirrors our EU friends, and point to them as proof that ebikes don't cause problems.
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Good point!

Just learned that my state (MA) has the 3 class law currently in committee, but it's excluding natural surfaces from classification! I'll be hounding my reps, bank on it!
 
"Pizzi should instead lobby for a new emtb class that mirrors our EU friends"

That is exactly what Class 1 is. PAS only with a wattage limit and speed limit, albeit more inline with our long standing Federal Regulations as administered by the Consumer Products Safety Commission.

The idea as you suggest that just because you have to turn the cranks to activate the assist makes it somehow "self propelled" makes no sense. Ebikes have motors. Just not very powerful ones. Even having a throttle won't make them any more powerful.

Plus it also mentions that Class 1 is a Federal standard which it isn't. The Class laws being promoted state by state by People for Bikes, who are the lobbying arm of the Bicycle Products Manufacturers Association, are separate legislation that try to mirror the EU regs so that the likes of Accell don't have to do much more than a software and charger plug change to sell in the US.
 
This whole argument about whether Ebikes should be on the same trails sounds EXACTLY like the skiing community when snowboarding became popular.

There clearly needs to be some line where an Ebike transitions into a motorcycle, but as longs as it's a 750w or less, it's a bicycle. Simple as that.

 
akarob said:
This whole argument about whether Ebikes should be on the same trails sounds EXACTLY like the skiing community when snowboarding became popular.

There clearly needs to be some line where an Ebike transitions into a motorcycle, but as longs as it's a 750w or less, it's a bicycle. Simple as that.

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Great video!

The problem is that these new 3 class laws strictly apply to motor vehicle classification on roadways. They exclude classification of low power pedelecs as bicycles on natural surfaces, which is why your Levo is technically illegal on MTB trails in CT.
 
This isn't an equipment problem it's a human problem. We have been and will continue to be very hesitant to change or to accept something we don't yet understand. It doesn't help that some of us abuse things regardless of what social clique we belong to. One side will hate the other until there is enough momentum. So don't hate the haters, they are just not mentally developed enough. Time will take care of this. Be patient, respectful, and educate the haters.
 
Mabman said:
"Pizzi should instead lobby for a new emtb class that mirrors our EU friends"

That is exactly what Class 1 is. PAS only with a wattage limit and speed limit, albeit more inline with our long standing Federal Regulations as administered by the Consumer Products Safety Commission.
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Yes, exactly the same except for 750w nominal, instead of 250w nomimal, and 20mph instead of 25kph. :LOL:

The only thing that's the same is the PAS requirement.
 
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