Devaluation/current state of the market

[pagheca]

I really hope it will last longer... but I may need to sell it if I relocate somewhere else in the future. It's not easy to take an ebike out of a remote island, that is another major issue for the minority of people living there.

 

[BeBiker]

That problem narrows down to shipping the battery you just removed.

 

[Just gan]

I don't expect to get more from my Ebikes than from my laptop after 5-10 years.

I sold my 2012 peugeot last week got £900 it had a new MOT with a few advisories which I thought was ok. 99800 miles on clock 5 hours later it was up for sale £3499.

 

[Just gan]

I really hope it will last longer... but I may need to sell it if I relocate somewhere else in the future. It's not easy to take an ebike out of a remote island, that is another major issue for the minority of people living there.

Yes shipping anything with a big battery is a bit of a problem and if done legally is costly. In UK anyway.

 

[BeBiker]

I sold my 2012 peugeot last week got £900 it had a new MOT with a few advisories which I thought was ok. 99800 miles on clock 5 hours later it was up for sale £3499.

Looks like you confuse getting-price with asking-price, confuse fast devaluating consumer goods with cars, or just did a bad deal.

 

[pagheca]

That problem narrows down to shipping the battery you just removed.

I considered that, thanks, but it would cost, also because we are out of the EU common market area with lower VAT, and there are additional customs to be pay when you reenter something.

A real alternative is to ship the bike and buy a new battery there eventually. Or put it on my car and take a ferry (3 days navigation).

Apologies for the off-topic!

 

[Just gan]

Looks like you confuse getting-price with asking-price, confuse fast devaluating consumer goods with cars, or just did a bad deal.

I've only ever traded cars in and taken out one from same garage. Trade in price was 1200 from a few garages 600 from we buy any car so I was happy enough. I didn't fancy driving 500 miles where I was getting the new car from. Had it 12 years so did its job getting a bit clunky. Anyway that was last week .

 

[E-MAD MALC]

Would you say this is a deal
Lovely bike gaining a great reputation
Very tempted
Would this lose much more value

 

[Dax]

Would you say this is a deal

Yes

Lovely bike gaining a great reputation

Yes

Very tempted

Me too.

Would this lose much more value
View attachment 144775

Also yes.

 

[E-MAD MALC]

Yes


Yes


Me too.



Also yes.

Well sounds like someone's tempted aswell

 

[doochenozzle]

I made this to discuss how much ebikes are devaluing and so far everyones like "i buy my emtb to ride it" thats great...we all do that. However spending top dollar on something that is worth quarter the price in one year is disheartening!

I’m with you - and agree that it’s a totally reasonable and rational strategy to plan to roll your bikes every year or two if that makes you happy. It’s not like you’re trying to get rich doing it. Anyway, it was a rational strategy at one time. Not right now though.

 

[ian408]

I think what we're seeing has more to do with how the bicycle business works. During the covid lockdowns, people bought in record numbers. Bikes were in short supply and slow to come in. Even parts were hard to get. At the same time, dealers had to order for the following year. What do you do? Sales are increasing--do you order to meet that demand? Most did but as soon as people went back to work, the buying stopped and now, dealers are swimming in product they ordered a long time ago. I'm hoping it doesn't result in a bunch of closures.

 

[Rando_12345]

Just to get back slightly on track and about reselling to update bikes.

For as long as I have been mountain biking, spesh and Santa Cruz (among others) were way more expensive than most brands, but the bikes held their value so it was worth the added cost. Unfortunately, with ebikes that's all up in the air as spesh have what is generally perceived as the most unreliable bike and Santa Cruz also got unlucky going with the ep8 and then fazua.

Meanwhile, most brands saw how much spesh and Santa could sell their bikes for over the last 10 years and raised their prices year after year and here we are where every brand pretends to be premium, but in the ebike world all have reliability issues and no resale value.

 

[G-Sport]

It is the worst time to sell right now, whether new or used. Demand is pretty low and supply is through the roof. BUT this wont last forever. After the optimistic over-ordering during and immediately after Covid, brands, distros and shops have swung the other way and are now being super cautious. So one this over-stock is depleted and hopefully demand starts to come back as we come out of recession (hopefully). We will start seeing more balance and prices will likely bounce back too.
Quite possibly we will see an over correction and prices will actually be healthier than normal.

So.... IF you can buy now, with the intention to keep a couple of years (at least), then you may be able to buy at rock bottom and sell at a peak... maybe... no guarantees though... and you will still lose money, but hopefully not as bad as it looks right now.

 

[Mikerb]

Call me old fashioned ( the old part would be correct anyway!) but my method is buy new, buy once, buy the best, and look after what you have. I have a VW T5 bought new, now 18 years old. Serviced every year, the only issue in all that time was a broken drive shaft. I have a BMW 5 Series, bought new, now 10 years old. Zero issues just regular service costs, still looks and drives like new. I have 2 Whyte EMTBs both bought new, I do all the servicing, neither has suffered any issues or cost anything other than the usual, tyres, brake pads, chains and Cassette...apart from a cutting out issue on the 2 year old bike when brand new.........I diagnosed and fixed that issue myself within a week at a cost of £85. Zero issues since then.

I have no intention of selling any of the above simply because they all "do what it says on the tin" . Absolutely no chance I would change either the Van or BMW for an EV!! or either Whyte bike for any other brand.

 

[Tekmotiv]

I can beat that MONDRAKER CRAFTY RR | Tekmotiv

 

[Ranu]

- pace of innovation. Why ride a 18kg Specilized sl with 35nm/320wh when I can ride a 20kg dji with 120nm/600wh?

And this is the reason that buying a second hand eBike doesn't work for me. We are seeing big steps in performance of the latest bikes, particularly the full power lightweight category. Hurry up and release the Amflow DJI

 

[E-MAD MALC]

I can beat that MONDRAKER CRAFTY RR | Tekmotiv

Nice one
But I wise they would tell you it's in stock without having to make phone call before hitting the buy button

 

[DAL]

It is inventory driven, post Covid with all the shortages manufacturers went into production overdrive across all industries. That has resulted in an over stock blip which is why we are seeing great deals on new bikes (I brought a brand new 2024 Gen 4 Trek Rail for £4,995 this week, retail price over £9,000 as case and point). This is currently making used bikes devalued. 2025 bikes will increase in price as materials etc are more. Once the excess stock has been consumed things should stabilise more so, any one keeping a bike for 3 or 4 years should get at least a decent return just my 50 pence…

 

[Tekmotiv]

Nice one
But I wise they would tell you it's in stock without having to make phone call before hitting the buy button

It is in stock

 

[p3eps]

I don't expect to get more from my Ebikes than from my laptop after 5-10 years.

I don’t expect to get anything from a laptop after 5-10 years. I don’t think 5-10 years is what the OP is talking about.

If you bought an Apple product on launch day, and sold it 6 months later… you’d probably get a 80%+ return on it. Apple products hold their value very well as Apple generally don’t discount them much.

If you bought a new S-Works Kenevo SL on launch day, and went to sell it after 6 months… you’re competing against various bike shops who’ve already reduced it in some cases by as much as 50%.
In order to make your second hand one a viable option to someone, you’re having to reduce it even more.

Yes, you may have fitted some fancy new shock or bling to it… but the new one comes with a manufacturer’s warranty. How can you compete?!

 

[Dax]

Well sounds like someone's tempted aswell

Very. I’ve been toying with replacing my 2018 full fat, the price is good on those mondrakers

 

[Tekmotiv]

Crafty RR bikes do have a 750 battery

 

[mmcengineer]

EVs are also going crazy because of the battery price dump.

The VW ID Buzz came out 2 years ago for about 60k, with most dealers only selling 70k+ variants. Now that the market is flooded with EVs, I see second hand ones with barely any mileage going for 40k. VW even updated their pricing at 52k new, which is much lower than what a lot of people are trying to sell theirs for second hand, good luck with that...

Basically electronics have always been a bad financial investment, and that's all ebikes and EVs are viewed as now...

An associate i know who has his own business jumped on the EV bandwagon he was telling us down the local pub t other day he owes porsche for the Taycan he has sat on his drive if he wants to get rid of it.

 

[mmcengineer]

The used EV car world is taking a dump. I was in the Porsche dealer last week picking up some parts, they have a new Taycan Turbo on the showroom floor for £35k off. I chatted with the salesman for a few, he’s a “tell it like it is” type of guy. He said the used prices of the Taycan have dropped so much that they can’t sell new ones, nobody wants to take the £40-50k hit as soon as it leaves the showroom.

Similar story on a guy iknow with a lease/pcp car , dont think the BIK tax he saved covers what he owes , poor sod

 

[pagheca]

Call me old fashioned ( the old part would be correct anyway!) but my method is buy new, buy once, buy the best, and look after what you have. I have a VW T5 bought new, now 18 years old. Serviced every year, the only issue in all that time was a broken drive shaft. I have a BMW 5 Series, bought new, now 10 years old. Zero issues just regular service costs, still looks and drives like new. I have 2 Whyte EMTBs both bought new, I do all the servicing, neither has suffered any issues or cost anything other than the usual, tyres, brake pads, chains and Cassette...apart from a cutting out issue on the 2 year old bike when brand new.........I diagnosed and fixed that issue myself within a week at a cost of £85. Zero issues since then.

I have no intention of selling any of the above simply because they all "do what it says on the tin" . Absolutely no chance I would change either the Van or BMW for an EV!! or either Whyte bike for any other brand.

I have a similar approach (see message #24 in this thread), because I've never been very good at selling/buying/geotizing, so I agree with you: buy wise, buy little, use as much as you can.

The only thing, with all due respect, I don't really understand what's so funny is about converting to an EV. One of the reasons I bought an electric bike is that the roads here are incredibly steep and the elevation gains to overcome are significant even to get to work (7 minutes one way, double that on the way back, with the ebike in turbo!) but I wanted to minimize my fuel consumption. So, my old bike was not a practical soluzion, while an ebike is.

I am an astronomer but I have been working on climate science for a long period of my life and have known for a long time that if it is true that we are emptying an ocean with a teaspoon, we are rapidly moving toward the ultimate catastrophy. And ebikes are one of the most efficient and intelligent solutions right now to reduce our transportation carbon footprint in cases like mine..

Any action that delays the catastrophe, especially for the next generation (e.g. OUR children and grandchildren), is better than nothing, and maybe a solution is found in the meantime.

I don't have yet an electric vehicle for several reasons: 1) my current car is quite new (I moved from one continent to another 5 years ago), 2) I would need a SMALL (narrow) 4x4 with great range given the status of roads here, which is not available in this area, 3) power generation where I live is so inefficient that if I fed an EV at the outlet than my CO2 footprint would be greater than if I burned gasoline in an internal combustion engine vehicle 4) I do not use my car enough to justify the change. Just a few thousand km a year.

But in any other situation I would seriously conisider moving toward an EV.

 

[mmcengineer]

I think we're just reverting to a more normal level of depreciation after covid supply/demand issues.

There's a huge amount of maintenance costs with MTB's imo. Bikes are usually worth a lot less than people think, especially if they need full bearing change, fork, shock service, with ebikes you've got potential motor issues and batteries with less capacity. Most second hand stuff is still way overpriced and hence not selling.

My other bike which is a supercaliber needs a new rear derailleur , the AXS one is 600 quid plus .......if it had been a cheaper bike when i bought it it would be in the canal lol

 

[Dax]

Crafty RR bikes do have a 750 battery

Thanks, corrected. I realised I was looking at a review for a rr sl. Time to find some more reviews.

Btw, do you have a XL and take cyclescheme?

 

[mmcengineer]

I have a similar approach (see message #24 in this thread), because I've never been very good at selling/buying/geotizing, so I agree with you: buy wise, buy little, use as much as you can.

The only thing, with all due respect, I don't really understand what's so funny is about converting to an EV. One of the reasons I bought an electric bike is that the roads here are incredibly steep and the elevation gains to overcome are significant even to get to work (7 minutes one way, double that on the way back, with the ebike in turbo!) but I wanted to minimize my fuel consumption.

I am an astronomer but I have been working on climate science for a long period of my life and have known for a long time that if it is true that we are emptying an ocean with a teaspoon, we are rapidly moving toward the ultimate catastrophy. And ebikes are one of the most efficient and intelligent solutions right now to reduce our transportation carbon footprint in cases like mine..

Any action that delays the catastrophe, especially for the next generation (e.g. OUR children and grandchildren), is better than nothing, and maybe a solution is found in the meantime.

You can drive your ev and try every single think to save this planet , problem is its a ticking timebomb waiting for whichever other despot is ready to push a button , i doubt very much that the amount of things we have all done this year to mitigate climates will be a drop in the pool in comparison to how much has been blown up and burned

 

[pagheca]

@mmcengineer, did you read my previous message in its entirety? I wrote very similar things, but with a slightly different ending.

And do not forget that EVs in a densely populated area like a European city, improve the air quality a lot and reduce noise pollution.

So I do not find anything funny about people moving to a (small, possibly) EV. That's what I wanted to say.