Subjective I know but.... Whats the most reliable Ebike motor

[2WheelsNot4]

I'm not talking about power, or torque or voltage or anything else like that but only reliability.
Which have we found needs to be replaced less often.
I'm leaning towards Bosch, mainly because I've read less Bosch motor issue threads than anyone else, but there its usually between 3 that the threads run - Yamaha,Shimano and Bosch.

We dont really need big expansions on how you fared on getting it changed personally but more toward setting up a ratings thread.
As in
Bosch - X number of replacements
Shimano -
Yamaha
etc
etc
OK, i see that one group might have more Bosch than Brose, but its still relatively accurate in that one group will obviously stand out as the worst group.

 

[Mteam]

Didn't zimmerframe do this a while back?

Bosch cx gen4 owner here, 1 replacement motor so far in 16 months of ownership

 

[Stihldog]

Didn't zimmerframe do this a while back?

You might be right.
Bosch gen4 on a Trek Rail since 2019.
Fully submerged several times and ridden in the rain often. Never replaced and it’s still quiet. 10k kms maybe ?…so far so good.

 

[TPEHAK]

Yamaha

 

[Zimmerframe]

Didn't zimmerframe do this a while back?

Bosch cx gen4 owner here, 1 replacement motor so far in 16 months of ownership

It is true, Zimmerframe was particularly sad over a 12 month period and did collate failure to none failure figures and try to mix that in with bike numbers/types. Then it got overly complicated by trying to work out owner types who mention failures and don't mention failures (For example Spesh owners feel like they've paid a premium so generally throw all their toys out of the pram if they have a failure). I then tried to balance this with some baselines from bike shops.

There were obviously also incorrect data points which suggested motor failures, but which were most likely lack of bike shop experience and were actually TCU/Switch gear/battery cable failures for example - this was more obvious in the American Data where emtb takeup was slower in many areas, so there just wasn't the experience - it's not working - must be the motor.

I deleted all the data as it meant keeping files of users, bikes, presumed riding types and sexual prowess (this was mainly a sub file heavily populated by @BAMBAMODA )

I can't remember (or find) the figures now. But roughly it was something like :

Mahle <1%
Bosch Gen 4 <2% (initially this was significantly higher due to software issues)
Bosch Gen 2 <4% (if you have one of these and ride in the wet, get some seals from @Bearing Man)
Shimano E8000/Yamaha/Brose 1.3 <7%
Brose 2.1 - at the time I had 7-8% but it seems from other data I've subsequently received that this was far higher, though has improved over time with firmware fixes and other changes.
Shimano E7000 - double figures.

EP8 wasn't around long enough in the period to conclude any relevant data.

There was insufficient data on the other motors to form any conclusive failure rates.

Despite collecting data over a 12 month period, you couldn't say with 100% certainty how accurate it was. The Mahle for example was obviously very reliable, but it was also a niche product where only in later discussions you would find out they'd had failures and these owners fell outside of the normal "spesh" stereotypes. Giant owners also seemed very brand loyal and invariably would hardly ever complain of failures when they happened, it was only months later they'd mention in passing they'd had three motors which had been a minor inconvenience/or "unable to use the bike all year, but you know, that's ok". (This is not complaint against Giant owners or Giant, I'm contemplating one myself).

The one thing which was prevalent, was that no matter which motor/bike you went for, having access to a bike shop/dealer/service centre who you could trust was as equally important, if not more so, than which motor brand for the people who did run into problems.

Equally, when it actually comes down to it, yes, motors can fail, your motor might fail, but the odds are it won't. There are many exceptions here, you will have groups of people where all their motors fail. This could be how they ride, the conditions, incredibly bad luck - the same as you have other groups where none of their motors fail - there are many factors at play which must make it difficult when designing/testing. Likewise I think most "pro" riders are far far smoother riders than many of us, so the people who test don't actually real world kill things - but this is the same for any product which then gets released into the hands (or feet) of the masses.

The one main exception in patterns is the Brose 2.1/2.2 (it's the same thing) where you have the "superhero group". Some people, for some reason are just incompatible with this motor in how they ride and have multiple failures. I had wanted to do a project with Spesh to work this out but it never came to fruition.

There are also many weird exceptions to what you'd expect. A personal example, I have a brose 1.3 in a Kenevo which has been obscenely abused (crashed more times than a crash test dummy) and ridden underwater on numerous occasions (once for 200 meters at more than 60cm's) and yet still works and yet there are people where they rode through a small puddle and their bike never works again.

Obviously someone like @Bearing Man could probably provide far more accurate figures as they repair them, but I suspect they would be too professional to divulge that kind of information.

 

[Gyre]

Obviously someone like @Bearing Man could probably provide far more accurate figures as they repair them, but I suspect they would be too professional to divulge that kind of information.

I'd love to see a periodic blog from Bearing Man in the vein of Backblaze for hard drives. I figure the main issue is that his numbers will probably lag with warranty periods.

 

[Huw169]

I did minimal research, but concluded I read less about Bosch issues, so actively sought a bike with a Gen 4 on. You takes your chances and hope.

 

[Mteam]

I did minimal research, but concluded I read less about Bosch issues, so actively sought a bike with a Gen 4 on. You takes your chances and hope.

yeah I did the same - and then it broke within 4 months - doh.

Its replacement has been fine so far- touch wood (not that kind of wood)

 

[Mikerb]

Maybe more important than the numbers is the "why" which may or may not correlate across the different motor brands. @Bearing Man has divulged where the potential problems or faults can occur and why on some motors

1. Inadequate motor casing seal to prevent water ingress and therefore corrosion on the motor PCB
2. Inadequate crankshaft seals allowing water ingress into the crankshaft bearings and sprag bearings
3. Motors with belt drive as opposed to meshed gears ( is that just the Brose?) suffering belt failure.........possibly as a result of too much friction on the bearings.
4. Heavy/violent pedal strikes imposing undue strain on sprag bearings. ( heavy unabsorbed hucks to flat probably incur the same strains?)

In addition to that we know that inappropriate washing of the bike can damage electrical components.........worst offenders being pressure washers and air blown driers.

My own addition to the above list ( with no evidence!!) would be pushing gearing that is too high at low cadence.

 

[Zimmerframe]

would be pushing gearing that is too high at low cadence.

Low cadence kills brose motors. The way the system works, it tries to apply enough power to get you going quickly - which is what people like, but if you then keep the cadence low, or it's steep, the motor's running at too low an RPM, isn't efficient - converts most of it's energy to heat and not power which then leads to premature belt failure if you do it on a regular basis as it's always running too hot.

The Shimano's seem to like to run at slightly lower cadences - or at least they lead you to as they put more power/assistance for less effort in that scenario - which might be one of the reasons why they give abysmal range for WH. At the same time they have the lowest real WH per rated WH for safer battery life on Shimano batteries - which is ironic when they have the worst battery longevity on internal batteries.

The Bosch also encourages you to spin slower if you're knackered/lazy, but does equally then reward you with phenomenal power and range if you spin higher.

 

[RustyMTB]

The two things I try very hard to avoid are getting them wet & pedal strikes. Getting wet is frankly an occupational hazard in mountain biking but pedal strikes don't have to be & they're bad for an ebike motor. Very bad.

 

[Husky430]

Shimano E8000 - 2019 Merida, failed after 3500km and just over 2 years, had to buy a replacement motor. Saying that it was 3500km of perfect operation and then just stopped working, pretty sure it was torque sensor. New motor now done 300km no dramas and hopefully get a lot more than 3500km this time.

 

[#lazy]

I got 2020 kenevo , bought 0ct/nov 19 and had 1 motor blow . Still got just under 2 year warranty so a happy chappy

 

[Tubby G]

I have two Bosch Gen 4 bikes, both less than a year old. Only killed one motor so far

 

[iXi]

I bought a demo bike, it had done 120ks and pretty sure it had been thrashed to buggery as the bike shop replaced the rear Rim after I bought it due to the dings. I was a super newb so didn't know any better until another bike shop said hey they should have replaced the wheel because it's f... D. 1700ks and the motor (e8000) was clicking when putting heavy pressure through the cranks and Shimano replaced it, this could have been from demo thrashing but I'll never know.

Replacement motor is now at 10200ks and still going strong, touch wood. I pretty much stopped riding in the wet (easy to do in aus) and I never wash it with a hose. I think it's like any appliance and it's luck if the drawer, some will last ages and some will die out of the box.

 

[SquireRides]

Bosch Gen2 Perf Line CX - Grinding bearings after 3000 miles. replaced.
Bosch Gen2 Perf Line CX - Fine for 1000 miles to point I sold it.
Bosch Gen2 Perf Line (non-CX) - Clanking at 1500 miles, think drive side bearings have gone.
Mahle (Levo SL) - As noisy as ever, but just about to hit 4000 miles.

 

[Bearing Man]

It is true, Zimmerframe was particularly sad over a 12 month period and did collate failure to none failure figures and try to mix that in with bike numbers/types. Then it got overly complicated by trying to work out owner types who mention failures and don't mention failures (For example Spesh owners feel like they've paid a premium so generally throw all their toys out of the pram if they have a failure). I then tried to balance this with some baselines from bike shops.

There were obviously also incorrect data points which suggested motor failures, but which were most likely lack of bike shop experience and were actually TCU/Switch gear/battery cable failures for example - this was more obvious in the American Data where emtb takeup was slower in many areas, so there just wasn't the experience - it's not working - must be the motor.

I deleted all the data as it meant keeping files of users, bikes, presumed riding types and sexual prowess (this was mainly a sub file heavily populated by @BAMBAMODA )

I can't remember (or find) the figures now. But roughly it was something like :

Mahle <1%
Bosch Gen 4 <2% (initially this was significantly higher due to software issues)
Bosch Gen 2 <4% (if you have one of these and ride in the wet, get some seals from @Bearing Man)
Shimano E8000/Yamaha/Brose 1.3 <7%
Brose 2.1 - at the time I had 7-8% but it seems from other data I've subsequently received that this was far higher, though has improved over time with firmware fixes and other changes.
Shimano E7000 - double figures.

EP8 wasn't around long enough in the period to conclude any relevant data.

There was insufficient data on the other motors to form any conclusive failure rates.

Despite collecting data over a 12 month period, you couldn't say with 100% certainty how accurate it was. The Mahle for example was obviously very reliable, but it was also a niche product where only in later discussions you would find out they'd had failures and these owners fell outside of the normal "spesh" stereotypes. Giant owners also seemed very brand loyal and invariably would hardly ever complain of failures when they happened, it was only months later they'd mention in passing they'd had three motors which had been a minor inconvenience/or "unable to use the bike all year, but you know, that's ok". (This is not complaint against Giant owners or Giant, I'm contemplating one myself).

The one thing which was prevalent, was that no matter which motor/bike you went for, having access to a bike shop/dealer/service centre who you could trust was as equally important, if not more so, than which motor brand for the people who did run into problems.

Equally, when it actually comes down to it, yes, motors can fail, your motor might fail, but the odds are it won't. There are many exceptions here, you will have groups of people where all their motors fail. This could be how they ride, the conditions, incredibly bad luck - the same as you have other groups where none of their motors fail - there are many factors at play which must make it difficult when designing/testing. Likewise I think most "pro" riders are far far smoother riders than many of us, so the people who test don't actually real world kill things - but this is the same for any product which then gets released into the hands (or feet) of the masses.

The one main exception in patterns is the Brose 2.1/2.2 (it's the same thing) where you have the "superhero group". Some people, for some reason are just incompatible with this motor in how they ride and have multiple failures. I had wanted to do a project with Spesh to work this out but it never came to fruition.

There are also many weird exceptions to what you'd expect. A personal example, I have a brose 1.3 in a Kenevo which has been obscenely abused (crashed more times than a crash test dummy) and ridden underwater on numerous occasions (once for 200 meters at more than 60cm's) and yet still works and yet there are people where they rode through a small puddle and their bike never works again.

Obviously someone like @Bearing Man could probably provide far more accurate figures as they repair them, but I suspect they would be too professional to divulge that kind of information.

Love this post Zim. You have been down many rabbit holes. I know this because I am still down there!

2.5 years ago, we started keeping very accurate records of every motor we repair. These records include customers description of issue, engineers’ description of actual issue, motor type, model, mileage and serial number. It's very easy to pull very accurate data from these records and I think most would be surprised.

I think it would be fair to give a little of this information out although I don't have time to go through all our data, I would say that failures are generally and approximately as follows:

Bosch Gen 1 80% failed plastic drive gear 10% water ingress 10% other
Bosch Gen 2 97% water ingress 3% other
Bosch Gen 3 60% water ingress 30% failed plastic drive gear 10% other
Bosch Gen 4 80% water ingress 20% torque sensor and electronics issues

Brose 1.2, 1.2e, 1.3 (outside of warranty) 99% water ingress 80% of these had failed due to this. 20% sprag bearing failure, belt failure or torque sensor failure with a few electronics failures.

Brose 2.1, 2.2 Exactly the same as above

Impulse 5% water ingress 45% freewheel mechanism failure 50% internal drive gear bearing failure and one or two other small faults.

Yamaha PW & PW-SE (Giant SyncDrive Sport) 70% water ingress, 15% PCB failure, 10% plastic drive gear failure 5% other
Yamaha PW-X & X2 (Giant SyncDrive Pro) 90% water ingress, 10% plastic gear failure.

After reading this, you cannot assume anything! I’ll say that again YOU CANNOT ASSUME ANYTHING FROM THESE FIGURES. Some motors will show more water ingress than others, but this is not because they are better sealed, it’s because they are predominantly fitted to road bikes for example. Just because one motor shows 90% water ingress and another shows 5%, one still may no better than the other, it may mean that one is always fitted to a road bike or fails due to something else before water has had the chance to do its work.

Another example is one motor may have a plastic drive gear that cracks and one may have a drive gear that strips the teeth off.

There are still many reasons and complications here, as #Zimmerframe has already stated.
By the way, if you live in a dry country, replace the word water with dust or grit. The issues will still happen, they will just take longer.

One thing you can see from this, bearings are not to blame! www.ebikemotorcentre.com

 

[TPEHAK]

That plastic gear is designed to fail if the load on the gears exceeds the limit to save more expensive components. The lower failure rate of those gears on Yamaha motors tells they they designed that gear the right way.

 

[Coolcmsc]

Love this post Zim. You have been down many rabbit holes. I know this because I am still down there!

2.5 years ago, we started keeping very accurate records of every motor we repair. These records include customers description of issue, engineers’ description of actual issue, motor type, model, mileage and serial number. It's very easy to pull very accurate data from these records and I think most would be surprised.

I think it would be fair to give a little of this information out although I don't have time to go through all our data, I would say that failures are generally and approximately as follows:

Bosch Gen 1 80% failed plastic drive gear 10% water ingress 10% other
Bosch Gen 2 97% water ingress 3% other
Bosch Gen 3 60% water ingress 30% failed plastic drive gear 10% other
Bosch Gen 4 80% water ingress 20% torque sensor and electronics issues

Brose 1.2, 1.2e, 1.3 (outside of warranty) 99% water ingress 80% of these had failed due to this. 20% sprag bearing failure, belt failure or torque sensor failure with a few electronics failures.

Brose 2.1, 2.2 Exactly the same as above

Impulse 5% water ingress 45% freewheel mechanism failure 50% internal drive gear bearing failure and one or two other small faults.

Yamaha PW & PW-SE (Giant SyncDrive Sport) 70% water ingress, 15% PCB failure, 10% plastic drive gear failure 5% other
Yamaha PW-X & X2 (Giant SyncDrive Pro) 90% water ingress, 10% plastic gear failure.

After reading this, you cannot assume anything! I’ll say that again YOU CANNOT ASSUME ANYTHING FROM THESE FIGURES. Some motors will show more water ingress than others, but this is not because they are better sealed, it’s because they are predominantly fitted to road bikes for example. Just because one motor shows 90% water ingress and another shows 5%, one still may no better than the other, it may mean that one is always fitted to a road bike or fails due to something else before water has had the chance to do its work.

Another example is one motor may have a plastic drive gear that cracks and one may have a drive gear that strips the teeth off.

There are still many reasons and complications here, as #Zimmerframe has already stated.
By the way, if you live in a dry country, replace the word water with dust or grit. The issues will still happen, they will just take longer.

One thing you can see from this, bearings are not to blame! www.ebikemotorcentre.com

@Zimmerframe and @Bearing Man have contributed so much here. Seeing the carful approach to how to interpret the figures is as important as the data. And then there’s another thing, oft mentioned, but not recently here.
We have some insights into what happens and to which motors.
But we have absolutely no idea how many of each have been sold. So, we have no idea what any of this means. None at all. The old ‘Denominator’ problem then.
What irrationally irritates me - I was sever;y punished by a Levo - is that the manufacturer of each type do know this data and don’t share.
They can’t afford to share - I understand that.
But by all that’s holy, it irritates me nonetheless

 

[Bearing Man]

That plastic gear is designed to fail if the load on the gears exceeds the limit to save more expensive components. The lower failure rate of those gears on Yamaha motors tells they they designed that gear the right way.

It would be much cheaper to make the clutch bearing slip

 

[Bearing Man]

@Zimmerframe and @Bearing Man have contributed so much here. Seeing the carful approach to how to interpret the figures is as important as the data. And then there’s another thing, oft mentioned, but not recently here.
We have some insights into what happens and to which motors.
But we have absolutely no idea how many of each have been sold. So, we have no idea what any of this means. None at all. The old ‘Denominator’ problem then.
What irrationally irritates me - I was sever;y punished by a Levo - is that the manufacturer of each type do know this data and don’t share.
They can’t afford to share - I understand that.
But by all that’s holy, it irritates me nonetheless

We do have many of these figures, they are available from trade sites. We also know exactly how many of which motor comes through the door and could tell exactly how much better one motor is compared to another, but this would be unfair. I say this because for every post you read on here about a motor failure, there are a thousand people riding around with no problems at all. If motors were actually failing at the rate that forums portray, I would be a very busy man, yet here I am typing on a forum
Personally, I do believe you should buy a bike with your heart, not your head. A bike should be something that fits you, makes you smile when you ride it and happy when you own it.
If you didn't buy the bike your heart wants because someone told you the motor had slightly better chance of failure, and bought another bike you weren't quite so happy with, would't that be wrong?

 

[Zimmerframe]

That plastic gear is designed to fail if the load on the gears exceeds the limit to save more expensive components. The lower failure rate of those gears on Yamaha motors tells they they designed that gear the right way.

It would be much cheaper to make the clutch bearing slip

I heard Brose used the same system and that the sprag bearings and/or belt are designed to fail when the load exceeds the limit of the motor mount bolts.

You can see from the high failure rate of these parts, Brose clearly designed those parts the right way.

 

[RustyMTB]

Is there any consensus on motor servicing? Risky question in a thread where Pete, who makes a living rebuilding these things is around, I know but it's a hard working component to say the least & everywhere I look, I see people acting only when their motor fails. Lots of us service suspension, clean & lube drive trains routinely but I don't see people dropping motors & sending them off for an annual spruce up.

 

[Bearing Man]

That plastic gear is designed to fail if the load on the gears exceeds the limit to save more expensive components. The lower failure rate of those gears on Yamaha motors tells they they designed that gear the right way.

They crack as well as strip... No pedal strike here!

 

[Coolcmsc]

We do have many of these figures, they are available from trade sites. We also know exactly how many of which motor comes through the door and could tell exactly how much better one motor is compared to another, but this would be unfair. I say this because for every post you read on here about a motor failure, there are a thousand people riding around with no problems at all. If motors were actually failing at the rate that forums portray, I would be a very busy man, yet here I am typing on a forum
Personally, I do believe you should buy a bike with your heart, not your head. A bike should be something that fits you, makes you smile when you ride it and happy when you own it.
If you didn't buy the bike your heart wants because someone told you the motor had slightly better chance of failure, and bought another bike you weren't quite so happy with, would't that be wrong?

Exactly. Couldn’t agree more.
The data can’t be shared for the reasons you give and, further, there are undeniable commercial pressures due to the inevitable unfair interpretation if they were.
Whilst I’m irritated as a Levo sufferer, I’ve never once suggested they are more prone to problems - how could I know.
However, concerning the heart, the exceptionally unpleasant conundrum of wondering whether to go on that brilliant long ride guaranteeing a long push back if there’s a problem is a genuine worry for those who ride eeb for health reasons.
I’ve always gone on ‘that ride’, but I really do understand and agree that this is an affair of the heart and, for some, fear of heartache.

 

[Swissrider]

The fact is that all of us ebikers are relatively early adopters. Other forms of motorised transport have had many years to develop and iron out faults and weaknesses and so we now end up with expectations of ten years and 100.000 miles without serious issues. There are two main problems with ebike motors, the first is that most of them operate in relatively benign environments, such as the drier continent, and on roads, and as such, don’t fail. As Bearing man says, there are thousands and thousands of satisfied owners of ebikes. Why would the manufacturers, and I don’t mean the bike companies, but huge companies like Bosch, Yamaha or Brose, for whom ebike motors are a relatively small sideline, care about a few motors that fail on mountain bikes? Secondly, how many motors are really designed from the ground up for ebiking? I expect most have been adapted from electric motors that already exist. Thirdly, it would be perfectly possible to design an electric motor that would never suffer from water ingress (which Bearing man confirms is the main cause of failure), just think of a pond pump, but the friction increase from effective seals would kill power and range. Thus, we are where we are. Hopefully, there will be incremental improvements that make motors more reliablee in poor conditions. In any case, just think of the fun us early adopters have had over the last few years. Personally, this has vastly outweighed the motor problems I’ve had.

 

[Coolcmsc]

The fact is that all of us ebikers are relatively early adopters. Other forms of motorised transport have had many years to develop and iron out faults and weaknesses and so we now end up with expectations of ten years and 100.000 miles without serious issues. There are two main problems with ebike motors, the first is that most of them operate in relatively benign environments, such as the drier continent, and on roads, and as such, don’t fail. As Bearing man says, there are thousands and thousands of satisfied owners of ebikes. Why would the manufacturers, and I don’t mean the bike companies, but huge companies like Bosch, Yamaha or Brose, for whom ebike motors are a relatively small sideline, care about a few motors that fail on mountain bikes? Secondly, how many motors are really designed from the ground up for ebiking? I expect most have been adapted from electric motors that already exist. Thirdly, it would be perfectly possible to design an electric motor that would never suffer from water ingress (which Bearing man confirms is the main cause of failure), just think of a pond pump, but the friction increase from effective seals would kill power and range. Thus, we are where we are. Hopefully, there will be incremental improvements that make motors more reliablee in poor conditions. In any case, just think of the fun us early adopters have had over the last few years. Personally, this has vastly outweighed the motor problems I’ve had.

Fully agree!
But, and I think this is important, precisely because you’re correct, it’s vital that we, the early adopters use our somewhat limited voice clearly, fairly and loudly whenever we can.
Thanks for building this loudspeaker @Rob Rides EMTB .
As you say, there are opportunities for improvement. And E-biking with formally managed speeds in public areas will likely become commonplace. I believe it should do in a sensible world anyway.
Without our input, more errors than necessary will be made as this form of transport matures.
Phew, this seriousness is too much of a strain…..

 

[timmers]

I've put 6000 km's on a 2020 Turbo Levo, with a Brose 2.1. In about 12 months of riding. Nary a problem with the motor in all those km's. As I've read in some of the previous posts by more knowledgeable folks, I'm accustomed to riding with a higher cadence, and that riding style apparently is a boon to this Brose motor. Incidentally, I just changed the running gear on my bicycle after those 6000 km's. The chain, chainring and cassette wore out at a similar pace, and I never did have any failures with them during that time. To be fair, I don't hammer my bicycle like some others do, and I'm judging that by looking at youtube videos. Again, to be fair to myself, I'm 65...

 

[Mr mick]

Riding underwater for 200 m at more than 60 cm depth? Cut the bullshit.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Riding underwater for 200 m at more than 60 cm depth? Cut the bullshit.

Apologies Mr Dundee. Presumably you represent part of the "Giant" deniers group and get upset if anyone dares say that the Giant isn't unbreakable. Very happy you haven't had any problems with yours, about 90-95% of all owners of any brand have no problems. Maybe read the Giant threads once in a while to understand that they're not immune to issues.

And yes, I did ride it 200 meters at at least 60cm's under water. The river had broken it's banks over the muddy track which runs down the side and with only a vertical rock face there was no other way than turning back. I thought from memory I'd be at mainly about 30cm's. Stupidly, I'd not taken into account the tractor ruts which I dropped straight into and was then tram lined the rest of the way. Decided not to stop as it was well below freezing and was already getting cold from being wet and figured I wouldn't get going again as it was hard enough just to keep moving, or I'd have to pick the bike up to carry it - slip in a rut, fall over and completely submerge the bike which would be worse.

Rode the rest of the ride in Turbo as hard as possible to keep the motor/battery as warm as possible and try to dry anything out which was wet, then rinsed the bike off and it spent the next 24 hours in front of the wood burner.

The end of the same bit of track a couple of months later when it was just wet and not "flooded" :

It always get ridden wet or dry and despite being a Brose, amazingly - still works.