Common rider inflicted motor failures

[Al Boneta]

I am now seeing a few older Levos coming through for repairs that are out of warranty.
These are the three biggest causes of motor failures that could have been prevented.

The stuff of nightmares

 

[levity]

Al - Water ingress I can understand.

Why do you think BLEvo caused the motor to eat the drive belt?

Is there another explanation?

 

[Webike]

Are you replacing belts now Al? Could you determine a specific point of water entry? ie thru the bearing itself

How are the bearings holding up and is there any other noticeable damage due to general wear & tear?
Did you belittle the guy with the power washer?

 

[Gray squirrel]

Al - Water ingress I can understand.

Why do you think BLEvo caused the motor to eat the drive belt?

Is there another explanation?

Ya what about the levo raptor?

 

[Al Boneta]

Al - Water ingress I can understand.

Why do you think BLEvo caused the motor to eat the drive belt?

Is there another explanation?

Because in every shredded belt incident the owner was using BLEvo on the most ridiculous settings possible. I don’t care if anyone uses BLEvo, but the belt doesn’t like to go over 30mph.
Also customers lie to me and tell me they aren’t using it when all I have to do is check with my phone.
Some of them come in acting like they are entitled to a warranty motor replacement.
It’s the chance you take.

 

[Gray squirrel]

Because in every shredded belt incident the owner was using BLEvo on the most ridiculous settings possible. I don’t care if anyone uses BLEvo, but the belt doesn’t like to go over 30mph.
Also customers lie to me and tell me they aren’t using it when all I have to do is check with my phone.
Some of them come in acting like they are entitled to a warranty motor replacement.
It’s the chance you take.

I agree with you 30 is most likely max before overheating and too much belt stress like doing 100 mph on snowmobile belts blow?

 

[Al Boneta]

Are you replacing belts now Al? Could you determine a specific point of water entry? ie thru the bearing itself

How are the bearings holding up and is there any other noticeable damage due to general wear & tear?
Did you belittle the guy with the power washer?

With the power washer the water comes through the bearings bringing dirt in the motor casing. When I first opened this motor a year ago, it was still wet inside.
The bearings are pretty tough, but they won’t last forever. Most of the time the strange noise coming from the motor is dry bearings or bearings with dirt or debris in them.
I didn’t belittle the customer, which took a great deal of restraint on my part.
I have sarcastic streak that is only amplified by my aspergers. Aspergers=Asshole
He got a crash replacement motor, I installed it for a fair price and then the bike was stolen.

 

[Gray squirrel]

Do you think if u derestrict to 30 and under motor ok??,can specialized tell if you have done blevo or the install the levoceraptor

 

[Al Boneta]

Ya what about the levo raptor?

I have no experience with this app, but I imagine if you crank it up to 11, just like BLEvo, there is only so much it can take.

 

[Gray squirrel]

With the power washer the water comes through the bearings bringing dirt in the motor casing. When I first opened this motor a year ago, it was still wet inside.
The bearings are pretty tough, but they won’t last forever. Most of the time the strange noise coming from the motor is dry bearings or bearings with dirt or debris in them.
I didn’t belittle the customer, which took a great deal of restraint on my part.
I have sarcastic streak that is only amplified by my aspergers. Aspergers=Asshole
He got a crash replacement motor, I installed it for a fair price and then the bike was stolen.

Ya I had shop for 3 yrs ?? wash bike with baby bottle brush and bucket of water

 

[Al Boneta]

Do you think if u derestrict to 30 and under motor ok??,can specialized tell if you have done blevo or the install the levoceraptor

Tampering detection was demanded of all Ebikes manufacturers by the EU. So the short answer is yes.
I have fried a motor myself and it sucked but it was my own fault. I can’t expect Specialized to give me a new one.
That just seems like a shitty thing to do.
Accountability is a long lost character trait.

 

[Al Boneta]

Ya I had shop for 3 yrs ?? wash bike with baby bottle brush and bucket of water

And that’s fine, because you are not spraying high pressure water at the bearing seals.

 

[Gray squirrel]

Tampering detection was demanded of all Ebikes manufacturers by the EU. So the short answer is yes.
I have fried a motor myself and it sucked but it was my own fault. I can’t expect Specialized to give me a new one.
That just seems like a shitty thing to do.
Accountability is a long lost character trait.

I don't plan on derestricting mine like warranty ?

 

[Al Boneta]

Are you replacing belts now Al? C

Sorry forgot to answer that part. If it’s out of warranty I can replace the belt. If it’s still under warranty then there is no need.
Over the winter I will experiment with bearing replacements, but whether or not I offer this service will completely depend on demand, parts supply and profitability.
My labor per hour is structured on my salary, turnaround time and a few other factors that I won’t get into.
But if takes half my morning to do than it’s not really worth it unless I change my labor rate, which might not make it worth to the customer based on the price of a crash replacement motor.

 

[wepn]

the belt doesn’t like to go over 30mph

I'd say that's about right too. Interesting that in some jurisdictions in the US, speed limits on trails have been raised to 28 mph. So I think Spesh should offer 28 mph - s-pedelec 45 km/h models. Why not?

 

[Al Boneta]

I don't plan on derestricting mine like warranty ?

Exactly, Specialized has one of the best if not the best warranty departments in the industry. The parts are in stock, the warranty techs actually know the product and they take care of a lot of stuff they probably wouldn’t have to if they wanted to be strict about it.
The best part is they train shop technicians to deal with any problem that will occur.
But there are those that find more value in a Kashima coated fork than actual service.

 

[Gray squirrel]

Exactly, Specialized has one of the best if not the best warranty departments in the industry. The parts are in stock, the warranty techs actually know the product and they take care of a lot of stuff they probably wouldn’t have to if they wanted to be strict about it.
The best part is they train shop technicians to deal with any problem that will occur.
But there are those that find more value in a Kashima coated fork than actual service.

Lmao , that's the truth service is everything I know own a arborist service for 20 yrs and best equipment sucks with out service ?, love when I see yt bikes at shops u know they are not on priority list???

 

[Al Boneta]

I'd say that's about right too. Interesting that in some jurisdictions in the US, speed limits on trails have been raised to 28 mph. So I think Spesh should offer 28 mph - s-pedelec 45 km/h models. Why not?

I think that when the State and County authorities finally pull their heads out of their collective asses, we will see 28mph standard.
But will that be enough for everyone with an Emtb?
Tampering is always going to hold up legislation here in the USA.
I have no problem whatsoever with tampering in the EU. If my bike only went 15mph I wouldn’t ride it

 

[Al Boneta]

Lmao , that's the truth service is everything I know own a arborist service for 20 yrs and best equipment sucks with out service ?, love when I see yt bikes at shops u know they are not on priority list???

I want to be like that but I can’t. It would be really easy for me; aspergers=asshole remember?
But I treat everyone with the same priority. Even if their buying decisions are eventually going to be the end of my business.

If I could sell YT in my shop, believe me I would.

And there’s nothing more fun than solving problems on a bike you have never seen before.

Actually there are like so many more things that are way more fun that.

 

[Tamas]

"love when I see yt bikes at shops u know they are not on priority list???"

I'm trying to understand this but I can't...
Service is service and I think nobody's expecting it for free. What difference does it make if the same Fox/RS fork, Shimano/SRAM drivetrain, brakes etc. that needs to be serviced is on a Specialized or on a YT (or whatever else)?

 

[Al Boneta]

I'm trying to understand this but I can't...
Service is service and I think nobody's expecting it for free. What difference does it make if the same Fox/RS fork, Shimano/SRAM drivetrain, brakes etc. that needs to be serviced is on a Specialized or on a YT (or whatever else)?

That’s not what she was saying, it was just a little jab at people that buy direct to consumer brands.
I agree service is service. You’ll see me over the course of one day fix half a dozen Emtbs I didn’t sell.

Today I did a custom build on a 20 Kenevo and changed two flats on a Huffy

 

[Jdog]

Some interesting stuff being posted here and I appreciate the advice on not going 30+ mph on a derestricted bike.

I have to say I am a bit disappointed and concerned that spesh/brose have the limits of the motors so close to the cut off point. I personally think the UK/EU law of 15mph is just not enough so derestricting is a must but I have little to no interest in going above 25/30mph and risking motor damage however I am unable to control that on a derestricted motor.

 

[Tamas]

That’s not what she was saying, it was just a little jab at people that buy direct to consumer brands.
I agree service is service. You’ll see me over the course of one day fix half a dozen Emtbs I didn’t sell.

Yeah, that's business... bikes need service regardless where someone bought them from.

 

[galaga187]

I am now seeing a few older Levos coming through for repairs that are out of warranty.
These are the three biggest causes of motor failures that could have been prevented.
View attachment 23824
The stuff of nightmares

Or the Ghosts of Levo’s Past, Present, Future ?

 

[Marcelfacd]

Maybe it’s me but I still dont get it:
It’s not healthy for the motor to go above 30mph (!? Who does that apart from going downhill) BUT
The motors have a max Wattage output, are heat protected (cut off above a certain temp) so what is the difference between maximizing the output in a long climb (100% support in a climb for miles) or going 30+ miles an hour for a period. Apart from that I imagine it has to do with rpm’s (more is more strain) but that also can happen at lower speeds.
What is the supposed to be the exact cause ?

 

[Al Boneta]

Some interesting stuff being posted here and I appreciate the advice on not going 30+ mph on a derestricted bike.

I have to say I am a bit disappointed and concerned that spesh/brose have the limits of the motors so close to the cut off point. I personally think the UK/EU law of 15mph is just not enough so derestricting is a must but I have little to no interest in going above 25/30mph and risking motor damage however I am unable to control that on a derestricted motor.

I am not all that concerned, because they designed it to operate under a specific set of parameters.
If I tamper with it to operate above and beyond those parameters, it’s not the manufacturers fault when it fails.
Personally if the bike went 25mph on flat sections I would be happy with that.
Or better yet when the motor hits it’s cut off speed, I could pedal past it under my own power like on the Creo SL.

 

[Al Boneta]

Maybe it’s me but I still dont get it:
It’s not healthy for the motor to go above 30mph (!? Who does that apart from going downhill) BUT
The motors have a max Wattage output, are heat protected (cut off above a certain temp) so what is the difference between maximizing the output in a long climb (100% support in a climb for miles) or going 30+ miles an hour for a period. Apart from that I imagine it has to do with rpm’s (more is more strain) but that also can happen at lower speeds.
What is the supposed to be the exact cause ?

When BLEvo arrived, I immediately set about to find out just how fast I could make a Levo go. I changed the gearing and I changed out the wheels and tires with the lightest set I had. I moved the magnet to the cranks and played with BLEvo until I got the Levo to go 42mph.
Wasn’t that big of a deal, there are a shit ton of electric mountain bike styled motorcycles that would laugh at that.
On a 98 degree California day, I went for a quick ride on a trail behind my house. I could tell the motor was getting hot but I was going to do one last climb and head back to my house. There is a really steep climb called big red and I wanted to see just how fast I could climb it with this new power. I went as fast as the bike would go on the flat section leading to the climb, but when I hit the transition to steep at the bottom, the belt slipped for a pedal stroke about five seconds later the bike sounded like my wife’s Vitamix and there was no resistance at the pedals. The noise stopped about two seconds later and I could smell burning plastic. I completely fucked that motor over.
It was excessive heat build up, a belt that was only designed to go 28mph and the sudden change in load on the motor that led to its demise. When took it back to my shop after my ride was done, the belt actually was starting to melt because the motor got hot.
It’s still kinda gooey to this day.

 

[Al Boneta]

One thing I did forget to mention in my opening post.

Is this motor still runs!
It doesn’t run well and it sounds like a Bosch gen 4 in a blender, but actually still works

 

[Webike]

When BLEvo arrived, I immediately set about to find out just how fast I could make a Levo go. I changed the gearing and I changed out the wheels and tires with the lightest set I had. I moved the magnet to the cranks and played with BLEvo until I got the Levo to go 42mph.
Wasn’t that big of a deal, there are a shit ton of electric mountain bike styled motorcycles that would laugh at that.
On a 98 degree California day, I went for a quick ride on a trail behind my house. I could tell the motor was getting hot but I was going to do one last climb and head back to my house. There is a really steep climb called big red and I wanted to see just how fast I could climb it with this new power. I went as fast as the bike would go on the flat section leading to the climb, but when I hit the transition to steep at the bottom, the belt slipped for a pedal stroke about five seconds later the bike sounded like my wife’s Vitamix and there was no resistance at the pedals. The noise stopped about two seconds later and I could smell burning plastic. I completely fucked that motor over.
It was excessive heat build up, a belt that was only designed to go 28mph and the sudden change in load on the motor that led to its demise. When took it back to my shop after my ride was done, the belt actually was starting to melt because the motor got hot.
It’s still kinda gooey to this day.

So does that mean there is no thermal overload protection on the motor and is that still applicable on the current generation of Levo motors?
BTW, thanks for all your feedback Al

 

[Al Boneta]

So does that mean there is no thermal overload protection on the motor and is that still applicable on the current generation of Levo motors?
BTW, thanks for all your feedback Al

There is thermal protection, but after messing with BLEvo it never went into shut down mode. I don't want to come off like I am bagging on BLEvo, I really like most of the features and changing the top speed isn't a bad thing when used within reason.